Proof that the Bible was not written by mankind!

a reply to: Krazysh0t

This is basically how it works.

The Bible was written by different men (and at least one woman!) and the contents were decided by man.

This has been widely accepted for about 1600 years.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Kalixi
a reply to: jimmyriddler

The Hebrew Scriptures and Torah have similar numerical profiles. The old Testament was taken from Judaism which predated Christianity by 3000 years.

Spoiler Alert: There is no God. All religious texts were written by man.

Could it be that the Hebrew Scriptures, Torah and New Testament have similar numerical profiles because of the hand of God being behind them? Definitely no human director spanned the 5,000 or more years that the Bible covers.

Spoiler alert: God exists and asks you, politely, to take a deep breath, calm down and think things through rationally for yourself.

Some problems with bible codes

The patterns, or features, which Panin discovered in Scripture involved chiefly the number seven. Had he placed an emphasis on almost any other number, it is doubtful if anyone would have paid any attention to his discovery. His emphasis on seven made his claims seem more believable because of the prominence of the number seven in the plain text of Scripture, especially in the book of Revelation. Whilst numerical patterns of seven are very numerous in the Scripture text, patterns based on lesser numbers occur even more often. In any list of words you care to examine, one in seven features might be expected to yield a pattern of seven (for example, the previous sentence has 21, or 3 x 7, words), whilst one in two features would be expected to yield a pattern of twos (for example, the previous sentence has 4, or 2 x 2, five-letter words).

Why are so many of us taken in by these ideas?
A mystique - in this case Greek or Hebrew letters, or the concept that God might be behind it and we should not question it.
A lack of tools to investigate it ourselves-in this case a lack of knowledge of Hebrew and Greek, and likely a weak background in probability theory.
A superficial reading-failure to see exactly what is being done because it is presented mysteriously or not fully explained.
A desire by those who believe the Bible is inspired for additional ammunition to convince unbelievers.
A lack of the necessary time to investigate in depth what we hear about, and a feeling that there are better ways to spend our time.

The article was written by a Christian.

As you so eloquently pointed out earlier, it's about faith, not facts. If what you described earlier works for you, and somehow bolsters your faith, then great, but there is no definitive evidence of any kind that can make the bible inerrant/infallible in any way. Quite the opposite.

I agree that Panin's 'numerics' should and are not sufficient to identify that a work is 'of God'. On its own, the numbers tell us very little except that there is something strange about this particular text. That the 'strangeness' seems to span years, cultures and authors is yet another oddity.

Panin did overstate the probabilities, any with sufficient experience with statistics and chance will see that he made some errors. He also got many things right and this still indicates the odd properties of the text. To dispense with everything he discovered (hundreds of numerical oddities) based upon a few errors (perhaps two or three), is also error.

To draw meaning or apply additional meanings from numbers or otherwise is also not particularly valid. The text of the Bible is mostly clear, unambiguous, and not contested. It is there in a format that anyone can understand. It needs no 'interpretation', it simply says what it does. Too many times people apply all sorts of nonsense to try and tease out some special interpretation when the content is clear.

Even books that use metaphor such as 'Daniel' and 'The Revelation of Jesus Christ' actually explain many of their metaphors and figures of speech quite plainly. However, this doesn't seem to stop those who must 'wax lyrical' about their own private interpretation.

I believe that is is not the Bible that is in error.

First of all, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation - 2 Peter 1:20

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: chr0naut
The collection we call the Bible was written by a number of men, the Bible itself attests to that, but the OP shows that these individual men were just the writing instruments. The mind revealed to be ultimately behind the Bible, exceeds even exceptional human capability.

So, if a mind greater than any human mind directed the writing of the Bible, the set of possible authors is small. Why not then attribute it to the ultimate mind - God (as revealed in the Bible)? I can think of no other apt candidate.

But the OP doesn't show that the individuals who authored the books in the Bible were just writing instruments. Let's pretend for a minute though, that they were. Who or whatever was ultimately behind the Bible, is a horrible author! Especially for being "the ultimate mind". What with all the inconsistencies, contradictions etc.

The Bible contains few, if any, inconsistencies or contradictions.

Sometimes, what is seen as a contradiction is only an issue with someone's interpretation of scripture. There is a good book called "An Examination of the Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible" by John W Haley that contains over 2,700 'discrepancies' and by referring to other scriptures, resolves every single one of them.

a reply to: chr0naut

No actually it doesn't...

It gives "explanations" from a christian perspective... And possible solutions...

My old pastor gave me that book... It doesn't resolve half of what people believe it does

Many supposed contradictions can be explained but said book doesn't explain all of them...

And many can't be explained... The good book is far from infallible

a reply to: jimmyriddler


You do know, that the Christian Church - and that includes both Protestant and Catholic Christianity - downright INSISTS that the bible is written by man, right?

As does the bible itself by the way.


Also, looking for proof by doing the word count thing on a Greek TRANSLATION of the Gospel?
Well that is just disrespectful to the immensely important roots of Christianity!

You would not analyse the language of the Constitution of the United States of America by looking at an Portuguese translation either, would you?

I fail to see how a bunch of numbers pulled from random passages can prove anything. The real proof comes when you practice what you preach.

A2D

a reply to: jimmyriddler

I respect people that have different beliefs. I also respect that there might be a god. We may also be in a computer simulation. There is also a chance that I am dreaming, and the entire world is a figment of my dreaming imagination. I have studied religion heavily, learned about other people beliefs, and even practiced earlier in my life. Here is my conclusion:

If there really is an all knowing all seeing God, why would he operate in the manner that he/she/it does? Why would he make his presence such a mystery, and so difficult to believe? Why would his only word-proof-evidence be contained inside a book that is, massive, hard to read, written by multiple people, and not accessible by most people? This isn't just the bible, it is all of the thousands of other religious texts around the world. Most logical people that were not born into one of these religions would have a very serious problem just accepting this "evidence" contained in these books as truth. If the bible is the actual word of God, then that would mean that roughly 70% of the worlds population is going to hell to burn for eternity. That is really unfortunate for people that are unable to read the bible, or born into an area where you are killed for practicing Christianity. It would also be unfortunate if say, Judaism is the "correct" religon. That would mean that roughly 99% of people in the world are going to hell for eternity.

Let's say one of these texts is the right one. Why wouldn't God make one of them the clear and easy choice? Why wouldn't he create it in a way that was understandable and easy to intake? Some people don't have the mental capacity to read or understand at that level. Most people in the world most likely never even see a bible. It is all just very hard to swallow. It is also very interesting that people will claim that their religion is "the one" without even having knowledge or experience with other religions. All of these religions are also very similar in theme, making the choice even more difficult.

There may be a god, maybe not, but I do not think any of these man made books are the answer. I think that if there was a god that requires an entry criteria to get into heaven, he would give everyone a chance.... unless it is an evil god?

a reply to: chr0naut

And one more thing. Just imagine someone writing a book now and saying that it came from instructions bestowed upon them by God and you must follow it or go to hell for eternity. Everyone would think they were nuts and they would either be locked up or murdered. It just doesn't make any sense.

a reply to: DupontDeux

I don't consider Catholicism to be christian, they just give themselves the label of 'christian' but nothing could be further from the truth. The old testament was written in Hebrew, however you do know that the new testament was originally written in Greek right? www.biblica.com...

i.e. The Gospel was originally written in Greek so there is no translation.

a reply to: Winstonian

If God was to just reveal himself openly then he would also be taking away our choice to either choose to believe in Him or not - since we couldn't help but to believe he existed. He gave us free will deliberately so that we could choose to seek him out and to love him. i.e. we can't force someone to love us, they MUST choose, otherwise it isn't love. It allows a person to be inquisitive enough to find out more, to seek him and search for him earnestly. When a person sincerely and genuinely does this with the right attitude and proper respect, then he let's himself be found and they come to know him personally enough to be able to know for sure that he in fact does exist. He says the only thing we can do that pleases Him is to have faith.

Your point about people that haven't been exposed to the bible going to hell - you should see how many muslims, buddists etc are having visitations from Jesus Himself. Here's a good couple of examples that are true miracles. There are so many of these examples on youtube alone.

originally posted by: jimmyriddler
a reply to: DupontDeux

I don't consider Catholicism to be christian, they just give themselves the label of 'christian' but nothing could be further from the truth. The old testament was written in Hebrew, however you do know that the new testament was originally written in Greek right? www.biblica.com...

i.e. The Gospel was originally written in Greek so there is no translation.

How can nothing be further from the truth when Catholicism actually IS a form Christianity?

It's like saying the Sunni or Shias AREN'T Muslim. And that argument probably has more grounds than the prior.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Its true that there have been plenty of corrupted bible revisions, unfortunately people make the faulty assumption that if its the oldest then it must be the most accurate, this isn't the case. The gnostic line of translations were severely corrupted even though they are very old. There are still plenty of very accurate translations though.

a reply to: MrConspiracy

Where to begin? Jehovah Witnesses call themselves christian too, just because they label themselves with that title doesn't make it true. This is what frustrates me when people discuss Christianity, they clump all these false religions into the same heap and create straw man arguments. You only need to look at the religion and then match up to see whether they teach what is written in the Bible. Take for example Catholicism, they pray to Mary and believe she is an intermediatary, the pagan created pope is considered Gods representative on earth, they have idols in their churches, they believe in purgatory, the list goes on and on, none of these things are biblical concepts or even mentioned in the bible. www.jesus-is-savior.com...

a reply to: jimmyriddler

Not really it is not a faulty assumption, but it would be closer to what the bible should have stated. The words that are used are often different, thus putting a different context on the entire passage.

Take Ephesians, for example. Paul wrote the entire book, as a letter. And the differences that are present range from wording, even to structure of the sentence. Some of the chapters, such as the first one, was to be one long sentence, yet now days, it is broken up. It loses its original intent and structure when that is done. All of the texts in the bible were written, the people writing such, had different points and ideas they were trying to convey. Matthew, and Mark, were not around at the time of the events that they were writing such, yet it is considered to be absolute truth. And even then if one reads the Bible, it leaves gaps, and at times defies natural law.

originally posted by: jimmyriddler
a reply to: MrConspiracy

Where to begin? Jehovah Witnesses call themselves christian too, just because they label themselves with that title doesn't make it true. This is what frustrates me when people discuss Christianity, they clump all these false religions into the same heap and create straw man arguments. You only need to look at the religion and then match up to see whether they teach what is written in the Bible. Take for example Catholicism, they pray to Mary and believe she is an intermediatary, the pagan created pope is considered Gods representative on earth, they have idols in their churches, they believe in purgatory, the list goes on and on, none of these things are biblical concepts or even mentioned in the bible. www.jesus-is-savior.com...

Christianity definition:

- The religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus Christ.

You can't escape that I'm afraid. Ways and teachings may vary. but they fall under "Christianity" .. sorry.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: chr0naut

No actually it doesn't...

It gives "explanations" from a christian perspective... And possible solutions...

My old pastor gave me that book... It doesn't resolve half of what people believe it does

Many supposed contradictions can be explained but said book doesn't explain all of them...

And many can't be explained... The good book is far from infallible

Agreed. It is basically an apologist book that gives you excuses for things rather than viable explanations. Many of their explanations are not even in the bible, they are added into the stories to make them work. That's not really an explanation, it's guesswork to justify an outdated worldview.

originally posted by: Winstonian
a reply to: chr0naut

And one more thing. Just imagine someone writing a book now and saying that it came from instructions bestowed upon them by God and you must follow it or go to hell for eternity. Everyone would think they were nuts and they would either be locked up or murdered. It just doesn't make any sense.

Indeed. Scientology and even Mormonism are exactly that. Luckily, I am in a country that was founded on religious freedom so we don't lock them up here, but you are right. There is no reason to believe one over another, especially just because it's old. That's like the worst reason to believe. Why is this all powerful god incapable of updating the bible to modern times or letting people know what he actually wants? It makes no sense.

a reply to: MrConspiracy

Maybe I should have said "I" don't consider them to be christian - because they're not, they're a corruption of the original.

a reply to: jimmyriddler

God (Admin) created the Universe (Matrix) so therefore wrote everything (the coding). This means anything anyone ever did or said, the physics of reality itself, the positioning of every atom, etc.

The Author of All things, including both Truth and Lies, wrote the words all of the people said against you today to test your Faith. And God wrote my words to test your Wisdom.

Evil was written so that Good could also be written to Triumph over it. Lies exist so Truth may exist, and Truth is rare so that it will be valuable.

What you shared about the number 7 is very cool. It's mysterious and anomalous. Inexplicable even.

But if you look around, you will find this statistical impossibility emerging all around in your everyday life. From even the smallest things, because God has you surrounded. God is even inside you. Surrender is the only viable option.