Transgender Misconceptions - She Changed My View!

originally posted by: SonsOfTheMeek

No it's not. See I can make declarations too.

Yes, it is discrimination.

Gender is determined by the brain. It is a birth right. It is no fault of the transgender person that they're in the wrong packaging.

As, with my mom who had polio. Did she ask to have polio? NO, but we were discriminated against just like the LGBT prior to the disability act.

Should she be forced to chop off her paralyzed leg to make herself more acceptable to the public? What she actually did was lie. She told people she had been in a car accident. That was acceptable. People treated her completely differently when she told them it was a car accident, then if she told them it was polio.

People fearing what they don't understand is unacceptable.

Accepting everything else about a person, but fearing their sexual organ?

Forcing a person to have surgery so they fit "societies" rules of acceptance is not OK.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SonsOfTheMeek

No it's not. See I can make declarations too.

Yes, it is discrimination.

Gender is determined by the brain. It is a birth right. It is no fault of the transgender person that they're in the wrong packaging.

As, with my mom who had polio. Did she ask to have polio? NO, but we were discriminated against just like the LGBT prior to the disability act.

Should she be forced to chop off her paralyzed leg to make herself more acceptable to the public? What she actually did was lie. She told people she had been in a car accident. That was acceptable. People treated her completely differently when she told them it was a car accident, then if she told them it was polio.

People fearing what they don't understand is unacceptable.

Your analogy doesn't translate. It's clearly two different situations. The polio situation is something that can be, and was, resolved by educating the public.

The transgender situation is a about a discomfort that comes from a basic biological level. No amount of education will aleviate the discomfort. It's just there for many people, for others its less strong and they can get past it. But no one should have to and be obligated to change with someone of the opposite sex.

Accepting everything else about a person, but fearing their sexual organ?

Forcing a person to have surgery so they fit "societies" rules of acceptance is not OK.

So your position is that it's wrong for someone to feel discomfort changing in front of the opposite sex? The whole reason separate changing rooms even exist in the 1st place? Well why is the transgender's discomfort valid while everyone else's is trivial to you?

originally posted by: SonsOfTheMeek

originally posted by: yuppa
Are you freaking kidding? A Law banning transgender women(passable ones) and forcing them into the men showers and changing rooms is very very bad. You want a Assault to happen so then you can turn around and blame them for it too? Its for Everyones comfort BUT THEIRS and that violates their rights under the constitution. Also you dont have to strip off all your clothes in a shower if you dont want to do so.

Sorry, not buying it. You're fear-mongering based on the fact that "something might happen". If they have male sex organs and feel uncomfortable getting naked in front of the same sex, then no one is forcing them to. By the same token, why make natural born women feel uncomfortable by allowing them in there.

I'll never understand why, with you people, that the comfort of these transgenders matter while the exact same kind of comfort that everyone else should have doesn't. How can you justify one be sacrificed for the other?

I'm all for affording everyone constitutional rights but not at the expense of an even greater number of people's rights. There must some other way we can accomodate everyone.

As to the 99 percent shes talking about letting the minority make the rest of us all suffer. She was addressing people in GENERAL with that line.

Go back and read. You're confused.

I wasnt selling anything. Dropping knowledge for free. You are talking segregation and un equal treatment under the law.

And HELLO pot meet kettle. YOU are also using WHAT IFS and fear mongering. Our side is backed up by statistics by no Transgenders raping or assaulting anyone in a bathroom. But there is evidence that Transgenders DO get raped when forced to be in mens rooms and showers. Jail is a great example.

a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

Your paranoia of body parts is your paranoia.

It just amazes me how the Fundie Right is so focused on sex.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: network dude

I see this law as making sure that Two beered up guys who have no morals, don't decide to go to a jr. high female locker room and claim they identify as a female, so their presence is allowed. (in the south, we call that common sense)

You want to deny Equal Rights to a minority because "something might happen"?

It's a shame you always go off half cocked. If you had payed attention to any of my previous posts on this, I think the original law is ignorant and never ever should have been made, so none of this would be necessary. If this never happened, the HB2 knee jerk bill wouldn't have happened, and all the fallout would not be on NC.

We were set up. And now we are going to be forced into complying with anything the liberal left wants or be financially ruined from the kids who need free lunches up, thanks to Obama.

I think everyone should be able to do what they have always done. And I think common sense should be used in cases where someone has a problem with anything.

Half-cocked because of one simple question? I just narrowed down all the "talking around".

You do realize it was Fundie Type Moms who started this by outing a transgender student - - - not the other way around.

Paranoid Fundie Type Moms started this, not the Liberal Left.

"Cat forced out of the Bag" and you want to put it back, sweep it under the rug.

Do you think typing words changes facts and history? THIS, being HB2 and the current situation, was caused by members of the LGBT community pushing for this bathroom bill in Charlotte NC. (one of which was a convicted child molester) Once the Charlotte bill was enacted, the NC government hastily came out with HB2. So the catalyst was the LGBT community as without them, none of this would have been an issue now. I can link the article again, but it's been done many times. If you don't believe this, show me proof of your thoughts.

originally posted by: Annee

However, due to the expectation of possible nudity, shower and changing rooms should be based on sex(vagina or penis).

Do not tell me again I do not comprehend your position. Or its knee jerk.

Interesting that you couldn't just directly answer the 2 questions I posted - - without peripherals.

I feel we will need to officially categorize what are standard restrooms and what are changing/shower rooms (laws, regulations, signs and such)

That is discrimination.


This hasn't happened yet, but imagine a 7 year old girl in the shower at the YWCA with her mom after a swim. Then a transgender person with a dick strips down and starts to shower in the same room. At what point does that little girls feelings come into the picture? Is it mandated that she be indoctrinated into understanding something that still has adults baffled today? Who must compromise here? Everyone or a tiny faction of society? I already know the answer to that question, but if it was your daughter, I wonder how the liberal mafia would affect your decision.

a reply to: network dude

HB2 was deemed un constitutional wasnt it? So that means our side won yours lost. So apprently the courts seem to agree with the statistics that no transgenders have assaulted or lewdly displayed themselves to anyone in a bathroom yet. ANd why are we discussing showers? Thats not even in the bill. Gee i wonder why? Because most transgenders DONT USE COMMUNAL SHOWERS WHEN ANYONES AROUND.

a reply to: network dude

This hasn't happened yet, but imagine a 7 year old girl in the shower at the YWCA with her mom after a swim. Then a transgender person with a dick strips down and starts to shower in the same room.

OMG! Genitalia!
Was it erect and pointing at her?
Does her daddy have a dick?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

If a transgender comes in and hits on you or your friends. Tough #. Such is life. Learn how to ignore them.

Oh, everything is turned around for these "special" transgenders? How about if within the first 5 minutes of them trying to hit on you they say something like this " oh by the way I'm trans and if you're uncomfortable with that I'll walk away" Seems fair to me.
If I see a gorilla female approach I usually get a bit of time to pretend they're not there. If I see a Jehovah Witness with a copy of an Awake magazine approach, I give off cues..."I'm not interested"

Tough #

yep tough #, life's to short to waste time when you know what you don't want in life

a reply to: Annee

What and have something like this, no thanks

"San Francisco built an outdoor urinal"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Annee

So you're equating transgenders with disabled people or are you just looking to win a point at any cost?

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Annee

So you're equating transgenders with disabled people or are you just looking to win a point at any cost?

NO.

I'm explaining why I understand what its like to be discriminated against.

And how people treat someone differently when they fear something they don't understand.

When my mom told people she'd been in a car accident they were sympathetic and accepting.

When she told them she had polio they shunned her.

Nothing different except what was in their minds.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Annee

What and have something like this, no thanks

"San Francisco built an outdoor urinal"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Are you unaware that human waste is a health hazard?

You'd prefer they piss wherever they felt like instead of a dedicated site with sewer drain and regular maintenance?

SF has many homeless people. You choose a blind eye and pretend they don't exist?

a reply to: Freija

I believe everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they are not infringing on another persons rights or property. That being said, I think that before this conversation I did not believe that trans people were sincere. The face of transgender people is Caitlyn Jenner, and I still don't think I buy into that story. I think before this discussion I thought that it may be an act, or a cry for attention. I thought maybe it could be a mental illness. Maybe it could have been due to some type of sexual abuse or trauma.

I am pretty good with people. I can typically tell if someone is lying, or if they are being insincere. After this discussion with Blaire, I now know that whatever the reason, there are a lot of transgender people out there that honestly believe and feel as if they are the wrong gender. That's good enough for me. Blaire gave me no reason to believe otherwise, and so I will respect that and now look at trans people a little bit differently and with a bit more sympathy.

We have to look at the people scared of it, or appalled by it with the same level of sympathy. It is hard for people to comprehend something that is so different, and so far from anything they have experienced in life. Having a straight male consider wearing a dress, or having sex with another man just does not compute on any level, so it is hard to look at it and "get it" I guess. People fear the unknown. I will never know what it is like to be gay, or trans, but now i look at it a bit differently. It is their truth, but that truth doesn't need to be my own personal truth for it to be real.

The political line up was nice, but it did not have any bearing on my opinion. I discuss topics with all kinds of people that I disagree with, and will have the same level of love and respect regardless of the disagreement in politics.

Hopefully that answers your questions

originally posted by: SonsOfTheMeek
So your position is that it's wrong for someone to feel discomfort changing in front of the opposite sex? The whole reason separate changing rooms even exist in the 1st place? Well why is the transgender's discomfort valid while everyone else's is trivial to you?

Transgender person would experience it every single time.

Most other people will not experience it even once in their life.

People just need to quit being a gigantic babies about it; It's likely to never affect you, and affects them every single day.

I don't think it's even a social justice thing, it's an intellectual capacity to think critically.

Really you're complaining about a problem that doesn't affect you because they are fixing somethig that affects someone else every day.

Poor you?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

So everyone has to tell you their life history and secrets upon meeting you for the first time just in case you are insecure about them?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'll repeat what I said before

yep tough #, life's to short to waste time when you know what you don't want in life

a reply to: Annee

You'd prefer they piss wherever they felt like instead of a dedicated site with sewer drain and regular maintenance? SF has many homeless people. You choose a blind eye and pretend they don't exist?

Nah, just the privacy aspect -

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Annee

You'd prefer they piss wherever they felt like instead of a dedicated site with sewer drain and regular maintenance? SF has many homeless people. You choose a blind eye and pretend they don't exist?

Nah, just the privacy aspect -

So. you'd prefer they pee in your backyard as long as no one can see?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Well you must be a delight to be around...