The Mandela Effect Can No Longer Be Denied: Berenstein Was The Tip of The Iceberg

originally posted by: tigertatzen
a reply to: Profusion
It's still difficult for me for many reasons. But I am no longer afraid and that has made a huge difference in my overall approach to this. I am viewing it as a challenging puzzle at this point, and learning a whole lot of things in the process. I can find positivity in this, and it keeps me anchored.

I see only positives to this at the moment. I now see life as a continuum of probable realities. I have been to hellish and heavenly realities in my dreams and I thought they were real. I now absolutely believe that we can shift in the continuum of realities. If our karma (for lack of a better term) is 'bad' enough, we can shift toward the hellish realities. If our karma (for lack of a better term) is 'good' enough, we can shift toward the heavenly realities. I now realize that there is no time to waste and I should use every moment to make sure that I'm heading toward the heavenly realities.

As a consequence of the above, I believe that we can make it to the level of being godlike beings, that would be the top of the continuum IMHO. I think we're down near the bottom of the continuum now.

I found something that may make people feel better. There is at least one historical precedent that seems to point to people shifting realities. I'll be waiting for a comment from the 'debunkers' on this one.

The Children of Woolpit is an ancient account dating back to the 12 th century, which tells of two children that appeared on the edge of a field in the village of Woolpit in England. The young girl and boy had green-hued skin and spoke an unknown language. The children became sick and the boy died, but the girl recovered and over the years came to learn English. She later relayed the story of their origins, saying they came from a place called St Martin’s Land, which existed in an atmosphere of permanent twilight, and where the people lived underground. While some view the story as a folk tale that that describes an imaginary encounter with inhabitants of another world beneath our feet or even extraterrestrial, others accept it as a real, but somewhat altered account of a historical event that merits further investigation.
The Green Children of Woolpit: the 12th century legend of visitors from another world

In case anyone cares, I changed my opinion on the following thread:

Separating the Mandela Effect From Memory

I thought it was likely that different realities had converged. After giving it a lot of thought, I think the only scenario worth considering is a total shift of realities by some of us. The following quote explains why looking for "reality residues" doesn't really make sense. In addition, there is a scientific basis for believing entirely different realities exist but there's no such basis for believing that a convergence of realities could happen (as far as I know).

If indeed you, me, and others who experience ME symptoms (or at least we think we do), have indeed transferred to another reality (same planet, same people, same memories with parents, friends, same college, and so forth), what purpose does it serve doing a forensic analysis of ink? What purpose does it serve to inspect the composition of the book fibers of the Berenstein books? We're potentially in a NEW REALITY, therefore in this reality we should expect to see BerenSTAIN on the front of every copy in every bookstore on this planet. The way I see it, you cannot prove to those in this reality that Berenstain was actually Berenstein, because in their reality, IT IS BERENSTAIN. That would be like telling someone whose a fan of the New England Loyalists NFL team in X reality that their team name is wrong from the perspective of Y reality where its actually the New England Patriots.

The way I see it, the only proof we have, IF INDEED WE ARE IN ANOTHER REALITY... are the memories of those who for whatever reason transferred to this reality. Another question that would help us to solve this problem is to figure out WHEN this happened, or if it's happened MULTIPLE TIMES. I've already done my reading and a great many people seem to think they transfered back in 2000 -- the year that some reading has shown Berenstain changed to Berenstein... others however recall transferring more recently in the past 2-3 years. For those who subscribe to the CERN connection, and how it fired up back in 2009-2010 (I forgot), it would be strange how people would transfer back in 2000, and not 2009+. Maybe I have a very shallow perspective, I don't know. But please don't take it as I'm against your points, because they're AWESOME points.

There may actually be remnants, or glitches in the "matrix", this "reality", or whatever you want to call it, and we need to do our best to document them (those from the previous reality). The only real physical proof I've seen thus far are people like Anne Rice calling their own book "Interview with A Vampire" during interview (what author forgets their book title?). I think architectural proof would be especially great, which you mentioned already. Just recently I watched a video testimony of a lady who said that she doesn't recall the Verrazano-Narrows bridge that allows you to get to Staten island. I had no idea that there was any such bridge. I always thought that you had to use a ferry to go to Staten Island. I'm sure there are much better examples (I hope so, at least), but I'm presently unaware of them. One other piece of proof that would be great, and that's geological proof -- for example, many books on geology written in 2015 completely contradicting very basic, well-established, common sense #'s written 10 years ago.
Mandela Effect - are we on an alternate time line now ?

What agenda do I have?

I've now asked you this multiple times: is it not possible your memories have been changed in a type of test? Wouldn't that be more believable considering those close to you also seem affected?

Why is it you think you're a special x-man and everyone else is wrong?

a reply to: tigertatzen

I haven't posted yet it or read absolutely all of the replies on this thread. It seems to be going better then one I helped create years ago about New Zealand... That one.

I'm wondering if there isn't a bouncing between realities like switching back and forth... I know there's something going on again.

a reply to: Profusion

As a consequence of the above, I believe that we can make it to the level of being godlike beings, that would be the top of the continuum IMHO. I think we're down near the bottom of the continuum now.

All righty then. You'll be sure to let us know when the promotion comes through?

I found something that may make people feel better. There is at least one historical precedent that seems to point to people shifting realities. I'll be waiting for a comment from the 'debunkers' on this one.

It is more "comforting" to think that reality is changing around you than to understand your own fallibility? Fascinating.



Interesting tale. Them medieval story tellers were good at spinning a memorable yarn. The miller's tale is a good one.

originally posted by: Profusion

originally posted by: tigertatzen
a reply to: Profusion
It's still difficult for me for many reasons. But I am no longer afraid and that has made a huge difference in my overall approach to this. I am viewing it as a challenging puzzle at this point, and learning a whole lot of things in the process. I can find positivity in this, and it keeps me anchored.

I see only positives to this at the moment. I now see life as a continuum of probable realities. I have been to hellish and heavenly realities in my dreams and I thought they were real. I now absolutely believe that we can shift in the continuum of realities. If our karma (for lack of a better term) is 'bad' enough, we can shift towards the hellish realities. If our karma (for lack of a better term) is 'good' enough, we can shift towards the heavenly realities. I now realize that there is no time to waste and I should every moment to make sure that I'm heading towards the heavenly realities.

As a consequence of the above, I believe that we can make it to the level of being godlike beings, that would be the top of the continuum IMHO. I think we're down near the bottom of the continuum now.

I found something that may make people feel better. There is at least one historical precedent that seems to point to people shifting realities. I'll be waiting for a comment from the 'debunkers' on this one.

The Children of Woolpit is an ancient account dating back to the 12 th century, which tells of two children that appeared on the edge of a field in the village of Woolpit in England. The young girl and boy had green-hued skin and spoke an unknown language. The children became sick and the boy died, but the girl recovered and over the years came to learn English. She later relayed the story of their origins, saying they came from a place called St Martin’s Land, which existed in an atmosphere of permanent twilight, and where the people lived underground. While some view the story as a folk tale that that describes an imaginary encounter with inhabitants of another world beneath our feet or even extraterrestrial, others accept it as a real, but somewhat altered account of a historical event that merits further investigation.
The Green Children of Woolpit: the 12th century legend of visitors from another world

In case anyone cares, I changed my opinion on the following thread:

Separating the Mandela Effect From Memory

I thought it was likely that different realities had converged. After giving it a lot of thought, I think the only scenario worth considering is a total shift of realities by some of us. The following quote explains why looking for "reality residues" doesn't really make sense. In addition, there is a scientific basis for believing entirely different realities exist but there's no such basis for believing that a convergence of realities could happen (as far as I know).

If indeed you, me, and others who experience ME symptoms (or at least we think we do), have indeed transferred to another reality (same planet, same people, same memories with parents, friends, same college, and so forth), what purpose does it serve doing a forensic analysis of ink? What purpose does it serve to inspect the composition of the book fibers of the Berenstein books? We're potentially in a NEW REALITY, therefore in this reality we should expect to see BerenSTAIN on the front of every copy in every bookstore on this planet. The way I see it, you cannot prove to those in this reality that Berenstain was actually Berenstein, because in their reality, IT IS BERENSTAIN. That would be like telling someone whose a fan of the New England Loyalists NFL team in X reality that their team name is wrong from the perspective of Y reality where its actually the New England Patriots.

The way I see it, the only proof we have, IF INDEED WE ARE IN ANOTHER REALITY... are the memories of those who for whatever reason transferred to this reality. Another question that would help us to solve this problem is to figure out WHEN this happened, or if it's happened MULTIPLE TIMES. I've already done my reading and a great many people seem to think they transfered back in 2000 -- the year that some reading has shown Berenstain changed to Berenstein... others however recall transferring more recently in the past 2-3 years. For those who subscribe to the CERN connection, and how it fired up back in 2009-2010 (I forgot), it would be strange how people would transfer back in 2000, and not 2009+. Maybe I have a very shallow perspective, I don't know. But please don't take it as I'm against your points, because they're AWESOME points.

There may actually be remnants, or glitches in the "matrix", this "reality", or whatever you want to call it, and we need to do our best to document them (those from the previous reality). The only real physical proof I've seen thus far are people like Anne Rice calling their own book "Interview with A Vampire" during interview (what author forgets their book title?). I think architectural proof would be especially great, which you mentioned already. Just recently I watched a video testimony of a lady who said that she doesn't recall the Verrazano-Narrows bridge that allows you to get to Staten island. I had no idea that there was any such bridge. I always thought that you had to use a ferry to go to Staten Island. I'm sure there are much better examples (I hope so, at least), but I'm presently unaware of them. One other piece of proof that would be great, and that's geological proof -- for example, many books on geology written in 2015 completely contradicting very basic, well-established, common sense #'s written 10 years ago.
Mandela Effect - are we on an alternate time line now ?

It is a very interesting perspective and I do believe that eventually we pass through stages or dimensions and ultimately become beings of pure energy. I believe in reincarnation. I believe that a lot of beliefs can be true at the same time...perhaps pieces of a whole.

I am fascinated by all the different possibilities. Once you get over the initial shock...at least for me...it's really a path for some pretty amazing revelations about the Universe and our place in it. So many things I've never considered before...and I've considered quite a bit.

I believe in Karma because I've seen it in action. And I have a deep respect for it as a result. I have also watched people become so poisoned by their own negativity that they trap themselves in it like quicksand. I have a healthy respect for that too. And I have had enough strangeness in my life to not be too quick to dismiss anything anymore. Literally anything is possible. Anything.

originally posted by: bryan2006
I haven't posted yet it or read absolutely all of the replies on this thread. It seems to be going better then one I helped create years ago about New Zealand... That one.

I'm wondering if there isn't a bouncing between realities like switching back and forth... I know there's something going on again.

How long ago was that, out of curiosity? I'd like to read that. I noticed some of these quite a while back, one of them pretty close to two years ago now.

So you won't consider the scenario where a small group of people have had their memory changed?

a reply to: Profusion

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: TombEscaper

Hopefully, this hasn’t strayed too far from the primary topic; I don’t believe it has. But just in case it has, I have copied and saved all of this, which may be worthy of a thread unto itself.

It is completely off topic, but at least it puts things in context. As I said, you are seizing on the external to verify what you claim to be eternal truths learned by looking within. In fact, the so called "phenomenon" is nothing but the mind playing tricks on itself. Why is there so much fear and anxiety being expressed by those who think the phenomenon is an outer experience? Why are you afraid of your own mind?

Well, I don't think it's that far off topic. Because the ME is such an unconventional phenomenon with very little answers at this point, it is not out of bounds to consider all sorts of different things that may be involved with it.

I generally don't make a point to press this issue about Christianity's fate much as of yet, because I think there is still time before the necessity to separate from it becomes urgent and pressing; but it seems as though that point is rapidly approaching.

Once again, I'm not even going to bother addressing your false-premise questions.

originally posted by: tigertatzen

originally posted by: bryan2006
I haven't posted yet it or read absolutely all of the replies on this thread. It seems to be going better then one I helped create years ago about New Zealand... That one.

I'm wondering if there isn't a bouncing between realities like switching back and forth... I know there's something going on again.

How long ago was that, out of curiosity? I'd like to read that. I noticed some of these quite a while back, one of them pretty close to two years ago now.

The more I think about things, I'm starting to believe I was actually experiencing this as far back as 15-20 years ago. I have a few reasons for thinking that, but here is one.

One of the ME's people seem to be pretty adamant about is what they remember as Captain Crunch now being called Cap'n Crunch. At first I dismissed this one, thinking I had always remembered it as Cap'n Crunch. But then I thought about the reason why I had known it as Cap'n Crunch. This is probably going back at least 15 years, when I still used to eat a lot of cereal. I clearly remember being at the store in the cereal aisle and seeing Captain/Cap'n Crunch. It was spelled Cap'n, and I thought to myself "Hmm, that's odd. All the years I've been eating this cereal and I've never noticed it's spelled that way." It looked strange and unfamiliar. It's almost like it jumped off the box and became Cap'n before my eyes. It's interesting that I would remember that, but I do, and it's the reason I had dismissed that ME at first.

But that brings up a whole new labyrinth of questions. If these ME's are all recent (last couple years), was my perception somehow seeing things differently for all those years? If Captain Crunch "became" Cap'n Crunch within the last year or so, how could I have noticed this "change" all those years before?

This is one of the reasons I've said multiple times that this has more to do with individual and collective perception than long-term memory.

Here is another example of this strangeness. Below is a link to a news piece by Charles Osgood from all the way back in 1985, when (?'s) Comet was "back" in the area. In this piece, he talks about remembering Haley's (pronounced Hay-lee's) Comet as a child, but now (or then, in 1985) he realized it was always known as Halley's (pronounced Hal-lee's) Comet,and he had no proof other than his memory of a Haley's Comet. Now, what is really weird about this is that I remember that time, when the comet was passing by, and I definitely remember it as Haley's Comet; in fact, that's all I had known it or heard it as my whole life - until the Mandela Effect phenomenon. Everyone has always referred to it as Haley's Comet. I had never heard "Halley's." But sure enough, there is a 1986 NASA video featuring the comet, and it is referred to as Halley's (Hal-lee's).

Is this the earliest documented case of a Mandela Effect? It appears Charles Osgood and maybe others were experiencing the ME as far back as 1985. In his perception, it was Halley's Comet, but as for me and everyone I've known and everyone I had ever heard talk about it, it was Haley's. I'm not really sure how this is explaiable; but then again, I don't understand how any of this is explainable. Below is the link to the news article archive, as well as the 1986 NASA video:

news.google.com...,3287891&hl=en

I would appreciate comments on the video directly below.


www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: tigertatzen
And I have had enough strangeness in my life to not be too quick to dismiss anything anymore. Literally anything is possible. Anything.

Based on what you've written about your view of reality, I highly recommend Sliding Doors. It's the most vivid and probably realistic description of "alternate realities" that I have ever seen. It kind of makes me wonder if I would have self-edited myself on this site, I would probably seem a lot more sane. For instance, I can tell that there are ME believers who are holding back a lot. If you're here to make friends, that's a good idea. I'm not here to make friends. I have to live with the consequences of being honest about everything.


www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: Phage

I found something that may make people feel better. There is at least one historical precedent that seems to point to people shifting realities. I'll be waiting for a comment from the 'debunkers' on this one.

It is more "comforting" to think that reality is changing around you than to understand your own fallibility? Fascinating.

I never wrote that I feel reality is changing around me. The fact that you're putting words in my mouth makes me feel like you're being disingenuous. Sliding Doors (see the trailer above) examines the theoretical construct of what I'm talking about. Through our actions we incrementally move towards a better or worse fate/reality. As to your explanation of the story about the children...it's just an example of why I would ignore if you weren't a good devil's advocate. You just assume that the story isn't true?

a reply to: tweetie

Well for what it is worth "the home depot" is called "home depot" in Canada

I never wrote that I feel reality is changing around me.

Wouldnt it have to though? sInce you lot are so sure you remember things the right way?
Even if you shifted realities, timelines, or whatever whackadoodle theory you come up with - de facto - reality changed for you.
Any way you choose to see it, thats what happened for you.

So even if you didnt use those exact words - its kind of pathetic to use that as an argument for Phages dishonesty or whatever.

Tiger -
What agenda do we have dear? Im perfectly honest in my heart when I promise you that we DONT.
We are worried about you. Speaking of which, eat, child. Youre skin and bones! Although very pretty skin and bones

Wouldnt you agree though, thats its at least LIKELY - that instead of a reality change for you - that you mightve been affected with psychological warfare - for whatever reason, in some form or another?
At the very least - equally probable? (Seeing as everyone of you dismiss the idea of simple memory issues and common 'trickeries' of the mind)

Also, please dont use "us" as a reason for holding back or being cryptic.
Why would you care what we think?
If youre just ignoring "us" - then why hold back? Go ahead and say what you wanna say.

a reply to: TombEscaper

One of the ME's people seem to be pretty adamant about is what they remember as Captain Crunch now being called Cap'n Crunch. At first I dismissed this one, thinking I had always remembered it as Cap'n Crunch. But then I thought about the reason why I had known it as Cap'n Crunch. This is probably going back at least 15 years, when I still used to eat a lot of cereal. I clearly remember being at the store in the cereal aisle and seeing Captain/Cap'n Crunch. It was spelled Cap'n, and I thought to myself "Hmm, that's odd. All the years I've been eating this cereal and I've never noticed it's spelled that way." It looked strange and unfamiliar. It's almost like it jumped off the box and became Cap'n before my eyes. It's interesting that I would remember that, but I do, and it's the reason I had dismissed that ME at first.

You were quite right to dismiss this "phenomenon." The others are mistaken. The product has always spelled its name "Cap'n Crunch," although it is pronounced "Captain Crunch." This is at the heart of the vast majority of "Mandela Effect" examples. Blu-Ray is pronounced Blue Ray. McEntire is pronounced the same way as McIntyre. In Ukraine, the German-Jewish name "Bernstein" got transliterated into Cyrillic, then back translated on a statue-less Ellis Island into Berenstayn. (In movies, immigrants are always overjoyed when they see the Statue of Liberty as they approach Ellis Island, hence the mistaken impression on non-New Yorkers.)

But that brings up a whole new labyrinth of questions. If these ME's are all recent (last couple years), was my perception somehow seeing things differently for all those years? If Captain Crunch "became" Cap'n Crunch within the last year or so, how could I have noticed this "change" all those years before?

Why are you wasting mental effort on this non-issue? Your perception and memory is correct; Cap'n Crunch has always been spelled that way.

This is one of the reasons I've said multiple times that this has more to do with individual and collective perception than long-term memory.

Now you're starting to get it! Memory = perception / time. For example, there was a rock and roll band called "Bill Haley & His Comets." Hayley pronounced his name Hay- lee. The band's name (which changed from time to time) was a sort of pun, of course, but it led people to assume that the discoverer of the comet's name was pronounced the same. It is not, it has always been Ha-lee.

You are finally coming around to what I have been trying to explain for days: this "phenomenon" is the mind playing tricks on itself. It is mis-perceiving things, then being startled when you see them clearly... like an optical illusion. There is nothing mysterious or metaphysical about it.

For those of you who find it frightening that your memory does not match the reality before your eyes: do you find optical illusions frightening? Are you terrified because the mental circuits that interpret two dimensional images as being three dimensional can be confused to create what appears to be an "impossible reality?"



So why be terrified when your audio memories conflict with the visuals you are looking at? (Captain v. Cap'n, Springstein v. Springsteen, McIntyre v. McEntire, etc, etc, etc.)

a reply to: DJW001

But you forget that they KNOW what they know.
They just plain ol KNOW, bro!

This thread is beginning to become a broken record
Everyone is saying the same things over and over

LOL.
Also
The reason this thread has caused a "disproportionate" amount of "troll attention" (I READ EEEEVERYTHING)
Is not because we are shills, we have an agenda, or what have you.

Its because its SOOOO SILLY!!! SNAP THE EFF OUUUUUUUUUUT already.
Peace.

a reply to: Agartha

Okay, I apologise for my hostility, it's a lesson against speaking in generalities I suppose.

With regards this:

But you have also implied that 'us', those who don't believe, have been conditioned.

My overarching point here is that we have ALL been conditioned, but by some random fluke (not because we're special, or chosen, or whatever) - by some random fluke, some people have escaped elements of the conditioning process. It's not a black & white issue anyway, because for some of the Mandela Effects being claimed, it's clear that the conditioning worked on me in that particualr instance, because I don't share some of the Mandela Effects being claimed. However, I have experienced a number of the MEs, so in those instances, somehow (by a fluke, in my theory) I did manage to escape the process of conditioning. Hope that makes it clearer. To say that someone has been conditioned is not to ascribe weakness, it's merely a statement reflecting what appears to have been attempted with all of us.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Isn't it just simpler to deduce that not everyone experiences things the same way because human beings are different?

a reply to: TombEscaper

I respect your opinion, but I have to say that I disagree vehemently with almost everything you have to say on the matter. I won't go too much into detail here as I feel it is a distraction from the topic at hand.

Of course, every Christian thinks that the Church they go to or the denomination they are a part of is the "right one," or is "doing it the right way." But what good is that, when everyone is seeing and believing different things?

As a prime example of my disagreement with your statements, I know of many Christians across many denominations, who certainly do not claim that their own denomination is the only way that a person can be in touch with Christ. I myself have healthy respect for most other denominations, and I wouldn't ever dare to tell them that their expression of the faith is any less valid than my own. The very fact that we share so much in common, is what makes Christianity unique. It has 'adapted' culturally, to be of interest to all, and the number of denominations is in fact a hallmark of its universal application, with small adjustments here & there for various cultural necessities across the span of two thousand years.

Your claim that Christianity as a whole is Mystery Babylon, I believe would make sense only to you. You will struggle to find an educated theologian who has even a shade of a suspicion that such is the case. Christianity, in all forms, denounces the mystery traditions which were originated in Babylon, and couldn't be construed as representing a Nimrodian worship construct in any way, shape or form.. (Incidentally, you refer to Christianity as failed, corporately, yet at the same time claim it is too fractured to be addressed as a whole entity... irony?)

Being brutal about my own faith for a moment, I would suggest that within the realms of the Christian tradition, the only branch which could be construed as being linked with the Babylonian mystery tradition is Roman Catholicism. Much of the ritual & symbolism is drawn from the occult schools of thought & practice, and the behaviour of that denomination, in terms of robbing the poor, persecuting others, abuse & so forth, is the only one which stands out strikingly as having been deeply, systemically iniquitous.

As interesting as it would be to continue a comparison between Christianity & Gnosticism, I would respectfully suggest that we step out of this rabbit hole for the time being, as the choice of one's religion has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Mandela Effect, as evidenced by this very thread. We are of diverse faith or none, yet all of us are involved & experiencing the Mandela Effect. Therefore, let us talk in secular, metaphysical terms - it is the only united way we can approach an understanding of the subject, and therefore it is the only correct way to approach it.

a reply to: DJW001

I suppose you could see it that way, but I believe that when it comes to matters of hypnosis, the subconscious mind & so forth, we are all remarkably similar. Most of us will respond to conditioning by being conditioned - simply because we don't know it's happening. Some people can be naturally 'conditioned' (hypnotised, or programmed) very easily, it's not a mark of shame, it's a natural trait, like having brown hair or long eyelashes. Others cannot be induced into somnambulism, but again, it's a thoroughly natural trait, and is no badge of honour.

a reply to: hellobruce

we've addressed your fallacious ad hominems previously, several times, but you keep popping back in to repeat yourself, to accuse us of being narcissistic, etc. It's very, very boring now.