The Mandela Effect Can No Longer Be Denied: Berenstein Was The Tip of The Iceberg

a reply to: raymundoko

Exactly. Thank you. They are advocating open mindedness and in the same sentance they show how close minded they are. Its indeed very strange...

a reply to: Barcs

Incredibly well put together.. I said somewhat the same but you articulate it in words way better I could ever dream of. Curse of being born in Sweden..

I also want to say, I do NOT categorize all believers in the same pot. Not at all. But its funny how believers seem to categorize sceptics in the same box?
For example, Tigertatzen has shown great intelligence, proving she questions not only ME itself, but herself too.
That is healthy. That promotes questions... which in turn promotes answers..

OPEN MINDED.. its not a hard thing to grasp what that means...

BTW, Tiger, we still want your NZ friend to join. Obviously she/he will be treated with respect. That goes without saying.

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: tigertatzen
Really? When someone says Berenstein, you hear them say "bur" at the beginning of the name? That's gotta be them making a pronunciation error...forgetting there's an extra 'e' in the spelling. Saying "Bernstein" by accident, rather than "Berenstein", cutting the word short by an entire syllable or saying it like that and actually using three syllables.

Although...a lot of people didn't have phonics in school, so that could be a contributing factor as well. I wonder how many people say it that way?

Exactly, and this is why I said at the beginning of this thread that the Berenstain bears are never remembered as Berenstein by Italian and Spanish speakers, because phonemes don't change as much as English. In Italian and Spanish 'a' always sound like 'a' in apple, so the Berenstain bears have always been pronounced Berenst-A-een, with 'a' like apple, so there is no Mandela effect for the bears in Spanish and Italian.

I don't speak Italian, but I am fluent in Spanish and I can assure you that the letter 'a' is pronounced more than one way, just as it is in English...but rarely is it ever pronounced like the 'a' in "apple". The most common way is how it sounds when you recite the alphabet en Español: "Ah".

As far as other languages, what you're saying may very well be true. Also, in different regions of the US, there is a marked difference in the way things are pronounced, which could account for missing syllables, etc. as well...though it wouldn't help the theory that these effects are simply due to bad translation or differences in phonetic spelling.

I know, it appears to be primarily an English speaking issue and I think that is important. Maybe even the key to the whole mess. It does no good, either, to poll people from other countries if they happen to speak English, and that makes it stand out even more.

Could I just interject, being from Swe and all?
Ive yet to see a ME originating anywhere else than English speaking countries..
But that doesnt necessarily mean anything. I would have to speak with at least 20 people from Sweden, and basically any other country, preferably one that DOESNT speak English (Turkey uses internet heavily and doesnt speak english, that would be a good contester) - to be able to give that theory any validity.

As it is now, it is an Internet Phenomenon. English being the native language of the interwebs. So we cant rule out anything yet, just cause its only affecting (as far as we know) english speaking/internet using people.

Just saying. What would be interesting - is if people outside the internet world spoke on it.
Thats what I wanted since my very first comment here (which is more and more becoming truer for me).

And as far as Sweden goes, we are basically North Korea* but with the freedom and avaliability of the US and more so even Canada.

* I could explain what I mean if you want but I doubt its necessary.

I think Mandela effect, and other strange ideas are what happen when truth is kept from the people. Truth has been suppressed for so long that people's minds go nuts in their imagination. Like mass psychosis. Shape shifting reptilians and timeshifts and-- is any of this real??-- or is this like imagination mold growing in a confined and stunted mind.

All of the lies and deception and holding back of truth, mixed with constant propaganda, fear media, and religious horse sh*t have brewed this mass psychosis. None of this is healthy.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

Completely agree.. Again I go back to my first comment in the thread..
This particular rabbit hole can only lead to depression and/or worse.
There is no coming back.

Stay out of it.

But I would love it if you clarified what you meant by truth is kept from people. I am sure I know what you mean, but for transparency.

a reply to: tigertatzen

You missed what he was saying. Yes, It is said differently depending on the word, but location in the country rarely if ever changes how the word is pronounced.

originally posted by: tigertatzen
I don't speak Italian, but I am fluent in Spanish and I can assure you that the letter 'a' is pronounced more than one way, just as it is in English...but rarely is it ever pronounced like the 'a' in "apple". The most common way is how it sounds when you recite the alphabet en Español: "Ah".

It's my second mother tongue and I can assure you 'A' always sound like 'A' it doesn't change.
The vowels in Spanish don't change sound, they sound the same all the time.
Perhaps it sounds like Apple for British, as Americans do have different pronunciation.

I can vividly remember certain celebrities dying and it being announced on MSM. Then a year or two later they turn up in an interview and I'm left scratching my head. Betty White is one I clearly remember. Weird.

a reply to: PorteurDeMort

Well buddy, you can easily and calmly chalk that up to curious memory.
Thats how our memory actually works.
This is as normal as Deja Vu but can feel just as uneasy as a Deja Vu.
Nothing to see here, move along.

a reply to: alienDNA

And I totally agree about it leading to depression.

What I mean by truth being kept from the people are all the areas that we know truth has been kept. Mainstream news being more a form of propaganda than information. Religion being taught as if it were truth. Real motivations behind government actions. And the conspiracies that have turned out to be true like MKUltra. Too many lies spread. Nobody trusts anything anymore.

At this point it's perfectly sane to question reality. Which fuels this descent into the rabbithole.

At the bottom of the rabbit hole you find a call for a new awakening or enlightenment. Probably to save the person from the depression.

If you lock a kid in a closet his whole life and feed him false information and eventually give him reason to doubt all of it, by the end of his life he'll have put together a pretty crazy idea of what the world really is. I think we're all locked in a closet.

We almost don't even care about truth anymore, because now we all have our own truths. Our own little closets where "my God is like this" and "my beliefs are this" and fantasy is elevated above truth. It's so not good.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

Wow... That's really it man.. on the money..
Thank you for sharing your thoughts here. More people like you should chime in and share their thoughts.
That would inject some anti-depressants in this thread.
Jokes aside.. I definitely resonate with what you said.. spot on..

a reply to: alienDNA

Thanks, man! I really appreciate those kind words! What you said about staying out of the rabbit hole resonates with me because I have taken that plunge and I know you can get lost down there.

You know I'm thinking about the Matrix, and when Neo takes that red pill of awakening, he almost flat lines, but then he comes out of it. Maybe that's what the rabbit hole does. It can help you to awaken or it can ruin you. You can get lost in it... At some point you have to come out.

The enlightenment part is good. I never read this book, so this is not an endorsement, but the title sticks with me... "Infinite love is the only truth: Everything else is illusion". I just like that.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: TombEscaper

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: TombEscaper

Please stop attacking me and just answer the question.

There is no way to legitimately answer your question, because it is based on a false premise.

What do you think the premise is, and why do you think it is false?

I know what the premise is, and know it's false. I can give a reasonably accurate paraphrase of what you and others have been interrogating ME'ers with:

"Why are you so high and mighty with your Godlike infallible memory that is 100% perfect and can never ever be wrong about even one little thing?"

False premise.

a reply to: alienDNA

The coasterbuzz Berenstein ride messageboard topic from 2001 is an extremely valid piece of "concrete evidence" that the naysayers have either continually chosen to dodge, or devised ramshackle and rather illogical rebuttals to.

I did not specifically address you, or name anyone in that post, for that matter. I am looking at it from a more broad and general view of what seems to be the collective "tone" of the skeptics' retorts, and the substance of their replies. There seem to be the same three or four people who continuously and continually retort to things that are not even being claimed while dismissing or disregarding ponderable things presented to them, that do not align with their thinking.

a reply to: TombEscaper

UTTER TWADDLE - another thread on another forum from deluded people is not evidence

a picture of the entrance showing " berenstien bears land "

THAT would be evidence

or a ticket , merchandice , empherea ANYTHING

its sad that you dont even know what consitutes evidence

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: TombEscaper

Maybe some skeptics in here are being jerks. I haven't read all the posts, so I probably missed some things. The problem is, you are trying to paint all the skeptics in a negative light and are just dismissing them all, just because they mention the faulty memory thing often (even though it's still the most logical explanation thus far). You can't call yourself "open minded" when you refuse to acknowledge the possibility that you could be wrong or remembering things incorrectly. An open minded person considers all possibilities, not just the ones they like.

I'm a skeptic, but I'm also open minded, I just wish the ME people were open minded as well to the other side. This topic greatly interests me, which is why I've been doing tons of research and polling about things that have supposedly changed. It just seems the people affected will not even consider that memory can be faulty or that memory is never exact when recalling your distant past. Plus there's also the fact that people lie. It seems all evidence for some kind of Mandela effect is completely subjective because you are going 100% based on a memory rather than an objective truth. This makes it incredibly difficult to confirm or deny.

This is why I'm looking for details, big details. This is why I asked about Tiger's friend in NZ, to get to the bottom of what has allegedly changed and get specific details. IF ME is a real phenomenon that isn't just incorrect memory recall, it would not just be limited to very similar name spellings in English. Berenstain Bears should have changed in other languages as well. If it wasn't poor memory there would be multiple people confirming these same big details that I am looking for in regards to NZ moving or other major things.

For the spellings and pronunciations of names, my research has shown that the most familiar folks with the topic usually have the "correct" memories. I am seeking BIG noticeable changes, not obvious minor name spellings and pronunciation errors. I believe everyone is doing this topic a disservice by only focusing on the minor things like Berenstain and swearing that their memory is right when it's obvious that many of those things are just incorrect memory, especially since the Berenstein thing doesn't apply in other languages.

Lets focus on the big stuff, ie NZ allegedly being moved, mars being closer to the sun than earth, etc. Give us some examples that can't be dismissed as poor spelling or possible bad memory with something similar. That would be a start if folks wish to show this is more than just bad memory. There's no question that a good amount of it is. So lets drop the Berenstain Bears, Reba Mcintyre, Star wars misquotes, and other minor things. Let's get to the bottom of the major things.

And please stop appealing and pandering to fear. Skeptics aren't against it because they are afraid. That's like telling a non religious person that they don't believe because they are afraid of god. It has nothing to do with fear, bringing that up is childish. It has to do with finding the logic and reason in a situation rather than automatically assuming there is some giant Hadron Collider conspiracy, or whatever else.

Well, one thing that causes problems from the start is that type-text is one of the worst forms of communication in regards the general demeanor of someone who is doing the typing. There is a chance that if this discussion was taking place in person amongst all the participants, it might be a much more light-hearted and amicable discussion than what comes across in this form of communication. But that is not the case, so these types of disagreements do tend to happen.

I don't believe any ME'er is saying faulty memory is an absolute impossibility in these circumstances; it's just that the knowingness is so strong that that possibility is at the very bottom of the totem pole. This has nothing to do with "ego" or insisting on a perfect memory as some continue to ludicrously claim. It has to do with simply being so certain of some things, that a sudden revamp of what was previously known to be true causes wonderment and confusion.

I'll try to give the best analogy possible:

Let's suppose we wake up tomorrow in a world where the Twin Towers are still standing in New York. And even though you know damn well you've seen them fall a thousand times, and have read countless theses (conspiracy and otherwise) on the events of that day, there is suddenly now no "mainstream evidence" to be found ANYWHERE that they were attacked and felled on 9-11. To add to that, you've got multitudes of other people who have the same knowingness as you, but there are also scores of others telling you that you are simply misremembering something. Now, aside from trying to maintain your sanity, if you would continue to insist those towers fell in spite of people telling you otherwise based on "evidence," would your insistence be coming from a place of "ego" about having a "perfect memory," or from a place of assurance about what you know happened, with a driving desire to figure out just what the hell is going on?

And, there is no such thing as a "small" or "insignificant" ME, if it is a genuine one. The mere Bears' change of the e to the a was enough to topple multitudes of people's views on reality, simply because it shows that reality is not as "concrete" as we have assumed.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

I own that book. I adore David Icke.

a reply to: TombEscaper

I have read everything regarding that coasterbuzz thing. I've yet to see evidence. Im sorry I am not saying this to be difficult or to be a naysayer. Actually, the contrary.
Im more like Fox and "I Want To Believe".
Thats me. But I need some substance to believe.
And Ive yet to see any kind of substance here. Everything can be explained by the way our memory works.
Everything..

originally posted by: TombEscaper
I don't believe any ME'er is saying faulty memory is an absolute impossibility in these circumstances; it's just that the knowingness is so strong that that possibility is at the very bottom of the totem pole. This has nothing to do with "ego" or insisting on a perfect memory as some continue to ludicrously claim. It has to do with simply being so certain of some things, that a sudden revamp of what was previously known to be true causes wonderment and confusion.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. If you are CERTAIN about something, that means you know it as absolute fact. It is essentially saying that your memory is perfect. That is why I asked in a previous response how people can be so sure of accurate memory from 20+ years ago when they haven't even looked at the book since then. I'm not saying everyone does this, but many folks are falling back on it and saying they are certain about a minor detail about an old memory, when it's exactly that; a minor detail that could easily be misconstrued. It's easy to get caught up in the hype and get emotionally attached to something that makes you seem positive about something. We've all been there. At first I was all about this theory. Now I'm starting to see every situation being explained rationally (ie herbal essence, the quote from Berenstain's son, etc).

Let's suppose we wake up tomorrow in a world where the Twin Towers are still standing in New York. And even though you know damn well you've seen them fall a thousand times, and have read countless theses (conspiracy and otherwise) on the events of that day, there is suddenly now no "mainstream evidence" to be found ANYWHERE that they were attacked and felled on 9-11. To add to that, you've got multitudes of other people who have the same knowingness as you, but there are also scores of others telling you that you are simply misremembering something. Now, aside from trying to maintain your sanity, if you would continue to insist those towers fell in spite of people telling you otherwise based on "evidence," would your insistence be coming from a place of "ego" about having a "perfect memory," or from a place of assurance about what you know happened, with a driving desire to figure out just what the hell is going on?

This would be an example of a major change, similar to what I'm looking for, but a little extreme. 9/11 was a national tradegy and every year we remember it on 9/11. It is highly unlikely that folks would mis-remember an event of that magnitude. They could mis-remember individual minor details about the day like times the building fell, but something like that would stand out and people would remember the sudden change despite the evidence not being there. Another big problem with this is why would people remember the way it wasn't even if this event was changed? If it was changed so that 9/11 never happened and this was always the case, I'd expect the memories to be changed along with that. Let's be real here, though. A 9/11 terrorist attack that started multiple wars isn't even close to mistaking an E for an A in a name.

And, there is no such thing as a "small" or "insignificant" ME, if it is a genuine one. The mere Bears' change of the e to the a was enough to topple multitudes of people's views on reality, simply because it shows that reality is not as "concrete" as we have assumed.

An E to an A is insignificant change and you can't prove whether it's genuine, that's why I feel it is best to focus on bigger things that can be verified from multiple sources. Things that actually matter. E to A is an easy mistake based on pronunciation that can easily be lumped in the fallible memory recall category. I'm looking for examples that don't fit this mold. I'd like to discuss such memories with folks in detail as part of my research. I'm simply not going to waste any more time on Berenstein or THIS neighborhood in Mr Rogers. It just becomes a game of "my memory is better than yours!" We are wasting too much thread space on that. I don't want to debate what people remember. I'd like to attempt to confirm something that can't be attributed to an easy mistake like spelling or pronunciation. I'd like to keep researching this, but we need bigger and bolder examples.

is this a normal map of NZ?
www.oxygengroup.com...

To me, it seems like NZ has shifted further out from AU.
I noticed this last night and talked about it here.
Unfortunately it was considered as bait by some but its not.
I genuinely feel its further out now than it was 2 days ago. One person agreed with me at the time. Not sure if that was truly genuine though...
Im perfectly fine with chalking that up to my own memory which I know I cannot trust - but I still wanna know what you guys think.