Russian Engineer Reveals Evidence for Advanced Ancient Civilisation

Sand, ropes, water, manpower and patience are all you need to cut rock in straight level lines - if you know what you are doing.

originally posted by: intrptr

Lapping is as old a tech as people. They understood it better than a lot of people today, obviously.

If they had found a high carbon steel drill bit or band saw blade, even a power cord…

…but all the work was done in stone by stone. People can't imagine how much time they had back then to sit around and rub stones together, it just befuddles us.

Whomever would waste so much time doing something so stupid? The most wealthy thats who. They accrued the best, paid the most and had lots of time to accomplish these tasks. People had life time careers in cutting and lapping stone.

How is it that you think they had all this spare time to "sit around and rub stones together"? The average lifespan in ancient Egypt was only 20-30 years...and the royalty only had a marginal increase in life expectancy, despite being the most wealthy. Pyramid construction started upon the birth of each Pharaoh...because they'd be needing a tomb by the time the structure was finally built.

If the Giza pyramid took just 20 years to build, as is the claim, using only primitive tools, they'd have had to have laid 1500 blocks that weighed as much as two tons each, every single day for that twenty year period. Yet it allegedly only took twenty thousand laborers to put this thing up in two decades?

Sorry, but that was not accomplished by rubbing some stones together. Some kind of tech was involved; be it terrestrial or otherwise. And pay had nothing to do with anything either...those laborers were not paid employees. They were slaves, and they were not given a choice.

a reply to: tigertatzen

I suggest you rethink your argument; The idea that the Great Pyramid was built by slaves is laughable.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
a reply to: tigertatzen

I suggest you rethink your argument; The idea that the Great Pyramid was built by slaves is laughable.

Haven't you heard? Everyone was a slave in olden times (but not today).

The first thing that comes to mind when a scientist says that he/she has analyzed something and come to remarkable conclusions, is why didn't the last generation of scientists figure it out...or the generation before those. We've many studies of these artifacts. Why is this scientist more/less correct than the prior ones?

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Tindalos2013

Thanks for your information.

You might find this interesting and explanatory. As my wife and I puzzled through this conundrum, we concluded that the most likely answer lay with the idea that the ancient Egyptians were more "chemists" than machinists. You might find this interesting: www.geopolymer.org...

Then why didn't they make the blocks all the same size? If you look closely at all the structures (Great Pyramid, temples, etc,etc) you will find that the blocks are different sizes.

Now... in cases where they DID use molds (sun-dried brick, which an individual could create in the hundreds in a day) they are all the same size.

So...
* if they had concrete...
* if they already had mud brick and forms for mud brick

...tell me why they would have made individual shaped molds for each and every stone block?

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: Painterz

The links already pointed to above are a good start to the reading. But, yeah, sadly this stuff has all been investigated and solved by the experimental archaeologists.

Ooohkaay...

So, any ideas from experimental archaeologists how to get 400 ton blocks 600 meters up on a mountain?

They got them DOWN from another site in ancient times. Or across.

Really?

And ... why isn't the answer exact/specific?

Because it depends on which site you're looking at. I don't recognize that particular structure, so I don't know where the quarry would be. The knobs on the unfinished face indicate that it might be MesoAmerican, but I don't know very much about the architecture there or the archaeology of the area... so I can't say if they came across or down.

originally posted by: carewemust
The first thing that comes to mind when a scientist says that he/she has analyzed something and come to remarkable conclusions, is why didn't the last generation of scientists figure it out...or the generation before those. We've many studies of these artifacts. Why is this scientist more/less correct than the prior ones?

More information.

Science is constantly rewriting the books. There's constant new discoveries (in Egyptology, it's actually not possible to be "up" on all the digs and all the discoveries. You can in a very general way, but it's a lot of reading because there's new material every day. The more you know, the better picture you can make.

Adjustment is necessary. After all, we don't still think that the brain is an organ for cooling the blood (which is what science thought a very long time ago.)

originally posted by: Byrd
The problem with the engineer completely ignoring archaeology... is that he's not aware of

* all the tools buried with their owners
* the numerous workshops in villages and in cities with these same tools and unfinished/finished/broken samples
(...)

Archaeologists largely ignore the inexplicable engineering feats and he largely ignores archaeology. Fair play ... on the other hand, he doesn't call into question everything archaeologists found and uncovered. He just adds an unknown factor to the equation and provides evidence for his conclusions (as opposed to claiming it had to be done with the tools found up to know despite the doubts).

...and finally, he mixes things from different time periods AND isn't aware of what parts of those sites he's looking at that have been repaired (and when.) Giza was under development at the time of Khufu and remained active for hundreds of years... then about 1300 BC it was repaired by the AE's... and again about 1000 BC... and so on and so forth. The Victorians repaired it, they repaired again at the turn of the century, and repair work goes on today at all the sites he mentions.

Flinders Petrie already noticed machined features early on and acknowledged that they were beyond the capabilities of 19th century tools when he discovered them. So it was clearly beyond the capabilities of those who repaired certain artifacts even earlier in history.

Petrie, Dunn and Sklyarov are making a valid point one would think.

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
a reply to: Granite

Harte got promoted to gatekeeper? Congrats, buddy! Also, what's an ATS gatekeeper do?

Sets to work on being promoted to keymaster.

Harte

#

Hang on a minute, I'm the keymaster........

So watch your back.

Harte

Just chiming in to ask: Does anyone remember the Jules Verne book about an ancient technologically advanced civilization that future people stumble upon. I can't remember the name, but I'm pretty sure at least one book of his explored the topic?

I do love the OOPARTS threads.



Intuitively it just seems like the current view we have is a little too straightforward monkeys...then primitives...then slowly progressing technology. Reality just seems far stranger than that. There has to be more to the story.

The odds of ever fully and completely knowing precisely what happened in the deep past strikes me as absurdly remote. I always kind of laugh at the artwork depicting how things "really were" in prehistoric times and the certainty with which it's presented. No doubt it's a good try, and an educated guess (which is better than nothing), but the certainty of some people. There's just an upper limit to what can be fully known. I'm all for stretching the boundary, but it's turtles all the way down into depths we can't fathom, I'm afraid.

It's still fun to poke around and imagine, though, isn't it?

to me "copper saws and sand" seem to be a weak tool for some of the constructions around. the argument that people had more "time or patience" also doesn't really satisfy. slave labor ? not so sure.
modern stone masons saying their thing about ancient constructions is awesome. i cant say for sure if the man in the video is right about what he says but some of it sure sounds good to a layman like me...not neccesarily the alien part... but just copper-saws,sand and lots of time ? hm

I believe this video based on my own reading into similar topics. It was aliens (can also be human-like). It seems like they visited earth a long time ago, build some sh#t for some purpose, and then vanished again. And when they left, they took all their technology with them again. Kinda perplexing that they left nothing over for us, but some monuments, brocken buildings and bricks. All all their machinery gone for good... very sober, house-trained animals these must have been.

a reply to: jeep3r

It is interesting you post this as I will be posting a similar thread soon discussing such topics. It does seem we have a forgotton past, possibly due to the fact those who wish to keep power wish to keep us in the dark. I am not talking the past 400 years but way back into our past. Around the ages of where such religious texts as the bible came from, a period of time unknown only to those text books all talking of a great event, the flood for instance. Something tragic happened in our past and it happened to my mind on purpose, to delete everything achieved before. Only to start us up new, lie to us and enslave us under money. All while we did for materials to support the higher powers.

People should ponder this much more.

Göbekli Tepe

i think the thing why people including me cant accept the "official explanations" is that even if it was just copper tools and sand ... it still seems impossible.the sites have been restored over times... okay but that doesnt explain all the amazing things we see. to me it does not compute somehow- not sure if that is only because i´m ignorant to "real archeology and have no high education" ...maybe it is because it is just not the right answer. aliens-schnaliens it doesnt matter- i want to see how copper-tools and sand can do those perfect cuts.

originally posted by: evc1shop

originally posted by: JaMeDoIt
Very cool video...no question the old guys used something other than chiles to cut stone. But what? I think it was something other than a steel blade and related machinery...why you ask, well someone would of found all or part of this type of machine...and that has not happened. Or if it has been found it is being kept a secret.

The plant that eat stone gig doesn't work for me...alien technology does work. They...the alien...landed, made friends with the locals, built stuff and left taking their toys with them...thus no relics lying around.

Sometimes people don't talk to me very much at parties...could be because of this...ya think?

But it is too windy to go to the beach anyway...

Cheers

Not really buying the plant thing either due to the fact that if the rock were softened and then formed as needed, there are still a lot of flat surfaces that are large and have very little change in suface height/depth, typically measurable in the thousandths of an inch if at all, over their length. Now if you told me that the tools were all taken to the inner earth after some catastrophe on topside, well.... or aliens of course.

I'm not a fan of the plant thing either, for much the same reasons. It makes a lot more sense that they had either some unique machinery or some help...or a combo of the two. It would take an awful lot of precision, not to mention time, to use plant acid and yield such results, even if such a thing were available.

And in the case of the Egyptians, like I mentioned earlier, there's simply no way that happened; the big one at Giza was recorded to have taken twenty years and 20k workers to build...which is already difficult to believe, given the size of the blocks and the monumental effort it would have taken for them to have even moved those things in that timeframe.

If it weren't for things like that, I could possibly be persuaded to embrace the idea a little more...but it just doesn't add up for me. There had to have been machinery involved...or other tech.

originally posted by: tigertatzen

originally posted by: intrptr

Lapping is as old a tech as people. They understood it better than a lot of people today, obviously.

If they had found a high carbon steel drill bit or band saw blade, even a power cord…

…but all the work was done in stone by stone. People can't imagine how much time they had back then to sit around and rub stones together, it just befuddles us.

Whomever would waste so much time doing something so stupid? The most wealthy thats who. They accrued the best, paid the most and had lots of time to accomplish these tasks. People had life time careers in cutting and lapping stone.

How is it that you think they had all this spare time to "sit around and rub stones together"? The average lifespan in ancient Egypt was only 20-30 years...and the royalty only had a marginal increase in life expectancy, despite being the most wealthy. Pyramid construction started upon the birth of each Pharaoh...because they'd be needing a tomb by the time the structure was finally built.

If the Giza pyramid took just 20 years to build, as is the claim, using only primitive tools, they'd have had to have laid 1500 blocks that weighed as much as two tons each, every single day for that twenty year period. Yet it allegedly only took twenty thousand laborers to put this thing up in two decades?

Sorry, but that was not accomplished by rubbing some stones together. Some kind of tech was involved; be it terrestrial or otherwise. And pay had nothing to do with anything either...those laborers were not paid employees. They were slaves, and they were not given a choice.

One thi g id like to point out we examined the interior of the pyramid and its ruble not stone blocks. They built stone squares and filled spaces in with what ever they could carry and dump in. So your estimation is way off. But that aside a twenty man team would be able to move a block. Roughly 3 an hour just using ramps now like the pyramid each team was one of 10 in a sub group. And each group had 10. So now we have 20000 people moving stone. This was a truly national work project almost all egyptiams were involved in building the pyramid it litterally kept their economy going. If you were not planting or harvesting you went to work on the pyramid.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
a reply to: tigertatzen

I suggest you rethink your argument; The idea that the Great Pyramid was built by slaves is laughable.

You think the paid skilled laborers who designed the thing and cut those blocks actually got out there and moved them too? I find THAT to be laughable.

They used the unskilled peasant people for that sort of thing. And when they were done using them or they couldn't work anymore, they sent them back to their families. And a lot of those families starved while they were away working for the government. They were slaves.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
a reply to: tigertatzen

I suggest you rethink your argument; The idea that the Great Pyramid was built by slaves is laughable.

Haven't you heard? Everyone was a slave in olden times (but not today).

No, "everyone" was not a slave, by any stretch. But in ancient Egypt, yes, they had slaves. The lower class were not treated very well and it was a hard life. They didn't live very long on average.

Mock me all you like, but I was not mocking you. I asked you a valid question. I was expecting an adult reaction, but I see that was a fruitless hope.