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originally posted by: RepealTheLaw
It makes perfect sense if your common enemy are Christians. Then again, the LGBT will rue the day they pick that side of the fight if they win..
originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
originally posted by: incoserv
originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
You do know some muslims are gay right, you do understand that not all muslims hate gay people.
Yeah, and most of them are dead. Droped off of buildings. Heads chopped of. Or maybe just buggered to death.
SMH.
Really most are dead, i dont think so but hey dont stop there, make up more stuff.
Not hating all muslims does not equate to behing pro fanatic.
Now stop watching faux news and educate yourself
Indeed. Is it acceptable though, to deny homosexuals the right to marry? Is it acceptable to disallow Muslims to enter the country because they are Muslims?
It is perfectly possible to live side-by-side and agree to disagree.
Yes. As is claiming that homosexuals should not have the same rights as anyone else. As is claiming that Muslims should not be allowed to enter the country because they are Muslims.
Meaning that everything not-white, not-Western, and not-Christian is automatically superior to anything that is. That's just silly and immature.
No. It's about doing away with the notion that old is good simply because it's old.
It's not about tolerance, it's about the current "fashion" which is to throw out the "old" and bring in "anything-but-the-old."
Correct. You can't, private schools determine their curricula. But what are "atheistic ideals?"
You can't FORCE a Christian to teach atheistic ideals in a Christian school.
Correct. Religion based laws are prohibited in this country.
You can't FORCE Muslim Sharia Laws in a pluralistic society trying to go-along and get-along.
Correct, sort of. It depends on what you mean by "celebrate." No one can force someone to attend any wedding, same sex or otherwise. It is, however, unlawful use one's personal prejudices to the deny the right to marry to anyone.
You can't FORCE people who don't agree with a gay lifestyle to participate in a celebration of aforementioned lifestyle.
You mean like attempting to craft laws which deny rights from others because they are part of a different "culture" than the majority?
The problem is, there's this whole RAGE culture that's trying to FORCE one thing or another.
Who is forcing you to do what? Exactly?
In my mind it is very Christian to disagree with someone while respecting their freedom to choose that which I disagree with--so long as I'm not forced to take part in whatever that action may be.
Indeed. Is it acceptable though, to deny homosexuals the right to marry? Is it acceptable to disallow Muslims to enter the country because they are Muslims?
Yes. As is claiming that homosexuals should not have the same rights as anyone else. As is claiming that Muslims should not be allowed to enter the country because they are Muslims.
No. It's about doing away with the notion that old is good simply because it's old.
Correct. You can't, private schools determine their curricula. But what are "atheistic ideals?"
Correct. Religion based laws are prohibited in this country.
Correct, sort of. It depends on what you mean by "celebrate." No one can force someone to attend any wedding, same sex or otherwise. It is, however, unlawful use one's personal prejudices to the deny the right to marry to anyone.
You mean like attempting to craft laws which deny rights from others because they are part of a different "culture" than the majority?
To force religious groups to do what?
Is it acceptable for the STATE to FORCE religious groups opposed to same-sex matrimonial ceremonies?
I do understand that. What I don't understand is how it harms traditional Christians. I don't understand why they give a damn.
As for marriage, however, you have to understand that to more traditional Christian ears, homosexuals cannot be married in the sense that a man and woman can be married.
"Customs of the land?" I guess that would include native American customs? Do you follow those? The Chinese have been here for a while, how about Chinese customs? Irish? Various African cultures?
Everyone entering should also agree to abide by the laws and customs of the land--that is to say, they should respect the US "melting pot" and not demand things that don't fit in a pluralistic society. If they (or anyone foreign) fails to follow the rules and causes trouble, they should be politely, but forcibly, shown the door and not let back in.
Sort of an expensive way to prove a point. A point which holds no legal basis.
Atheist parent has an ax to grind with Catholicism, said atheist parent decides to put Little Atheist Johnny in a parochial school and then tantrums about the school's religious teachings.
I know of no state laws requiring anyone to attend a parade or wedding.
Endorse or bless, I guess is the idea...or go to a party, parade, wedding, etc. because they're required to by an employer, or the state.
Yes. Rude people are annoying. Lots of things are annoying.
It's rude. Too often people who have an ax to grind with others do this sort of thing. It really doesn't lead to progress and is very, very annoying.
Like laws prohibiting same sex marriage? There is. It's called the US Constitution.
There should be some kind of law against crafting laws just for the sake of rubbing a group of people the wrong way and wasting legislative time.
To force religious groups to do what?
. I do understand that. What I don't understand is how it harms traditional Christians. I don't understand why they give a damn.
. "Customs of the land?" I guess that would include native American customs? Do you follow those? The Chinese have been here for a while, how about Chinese customs? Irish? Various African cultures?
. Sort of an expensive way to prove a point. A point which holds no legal basis.
. I know of no state laws requiring anyone to attend a parade or wedding.
. Like laws prohibiting same sex marriage? There is. It's called the US Constitution.
Agree to disagree simply means that we accept we have different and valid opinions based on our life and our beliefs.
It doesn't mean that it is an excuse for any group to deny others basic secular rights. In practical, real world terms it means things like gay marriage should be allowed because relationships are a basic human need. Gay relationships should have the same secular rights as heterosexual ones.
From a religious viewpoint you are free to disagree and even say that gay marriage is not part of your religion and therefore refuse a religious ceremony . However if you are the position where you run a marriage business that goes beyond the role of only marrying Christians in church or represent the government in a marriage license dept, you have to do your job. And that does mean marrying same sex couples in a secular ceremony.
The same principle applies to things like Sharia law. It has no place in secular society because it denies people basic freedoms guaranteed under state law. We cannot agree to disagree on this because it is enslaving people in a brutal archaic system of corporal punishment.
Firstly, on a personal level people are free to think what they want.
Secondly, as far as on a professional level goes, one has to follow the secular codes and laws that their business is bound by. Your point on Vegans in slaughterhouses illustrates what I mean perfectly.
As for buildings and churches; if they rent out the buildings to Atheists, or persons of another religion then why not same sex couples?
I would expect however that any new marriage celebrant that comes on board post law change to not discriminate and marry anyone that fits within the current scope of the definition.
originally posted by: SisterDelirium
a reply to: markosity1973
I don't know how many churches might rent to atheists or same sex people--or if they ask. I would think it would really depend upon the use. And there are those people who would troll a church just because it's a church and rent a place for something obviously offensive to the church just to cause controversy. That's the kind of thing I find irksome. Why do that? Why go needle people? Surely there are other venues... it's not a major inconvenience and it really isn't the same thing as "not serving a black person at a restaurant" or some other civil rights mash-up. This is about behavior and lifestyle, not discrimination based on some physical trait trait or nationality or something else that really has no bearing on how a person behaves. If a gay couple wants to do things that would offend the church whose hall they plan to rent, that's really just obnoxious. It's the same thing as the vegan in the slaughterhouse. Don't actively seek out controversy, there's controversy enough all over the place.
By celebrant, I guess you mean party planners, decorators, photographers, etc. Maybe, assuming that person isn't going to be harassed in their own right. Customers shouldn't be the only ones with rights in any case. I'm just arguing for civility.
hear you. There are sue happy trolls lurking everywhere just looking for an opportunity for a payout. These are bad people and yes, we in the gay community have them too.
I believe what you are trying to say can be summed up like this;
Live and let live, do so unselfishly and in humility.
All of these things are secular services that everyone accesses and therefore one cannot discriminate based upon sexuality, race, or religion.