2016: The Year the Americans Found out Our Elections Are Rigged

a reply to: TrueBrit

We all fail multiple times. It's called getting back up. It's not fortune. It's called work. If you need someone to tell you what to do, you aren't grown up yet.

Ozzy, it seems you assume too much, and Brit. Failure is inevitable. What you do when you fail decides what you are.

And you didn't join the conservative process, but the liberal one. Your choice is revealing in itself.

I'm not against that, by the way, but to ask me to assume you chose a party with the flip of a coin is a little much.

By the way, thanks for your previous response!

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s

I'm an absolute beginner, but I still know quite a bit more than you, apparently. :p

Beginner as you profess to be, perhaps you don't know as much as you think you do.

Personally, I have spent the last eight years writing open records requests to find out how the sausage is made. I don't consider myself a beginner either.

In fact, you can yield a lot of information even if your request is denied. When it's denied, you know certain information and records actually exist -- they are just protected from disclosure by privacy laws/statutes. Sometimes you find out that no information or records exist with regard to an issue.

And sometimes you get a real glimpse at the recipe for the sausage.

One thing I would never do is volunteer my time or vote to help one of the two corrupt parties, hoping they are going to let me in on their inner-workings.

ETA:

a reply to: TarzanBeta

I didn't flip a coin. I chose the party that matched my resources, which did not include driving 65 miles south into Colorado Springs, if I wanted to be a part of the state party apparatus. As it turned out, it likely made no difference.

Win some, lose some. Still don't care about talk radio labels, or commercial news labels.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Well, historically, parties don't rise or fall based on FOI requests (and extrapolation-by-absence) There are, however, good reasons why parties operate as they do, and why they sometimes fall.

I won't be sad to see either of these go, if they can't get their PR together, but it isn't going to happen because we loc-up and declare a revolution on a UFO site. It's going to happen because people in the trenches make changes, for better or worse.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Well, historically, parties don't rise or fall based on FOI requests (and extrapolation-by-absence) There are, however, good reasons why parties operate as they do, and why they sometimes fall.

I won't be sad to see either of these go, if they can't get their PR together, but it isn't going to happen because we loc-up and declare a revolution on a UFO site. It's going to happen because people in the trenches make changes, for better or worse.

Considering FOIA requests (AND state government open records laws) are just about the only tool the People have to oversee government, I would say you underestimate their value.

I cannot recall a party that fell because someone volunteered to be a delegate. Is there some historical precedent you have for thinking that way?

On the other hand, disclosure through open records law has actually resulted in the exposure of all kinds of government corruption. And, I, too, have had questions answered by using this tool and have gleaned some amazing information.

i don't use them because I think i can bring down a party. I use them so that I am as informed as I can be.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Again -- you are assuming. I didn't volunteer to be a delegate to "make a party fall," I volunteered to see how the system actually works, today.

I'm not worried about blowing up the system. I just want to see how it works with my own eyes, because it's more interesting than guessing.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Again -- you are assuming. I didn't volunteer to be a delegate to "make a party fall," I volunteered to see how the system actually works, today.

I'm not worried about blowing up the system. I just want to see how it works with my own eyes, because it's more interesting than guessing.

You wrote: "Well, historically, parties don't rise or fall based on FOI requests (and extrapolation-by-absence)"

It was YOU that assumed/insinuated that I hoped to bring down a party using open records law. Hence, the reason for my response.

I use FOIA requests (and state open records laws) for the precise reason you claim to be volunteering for the DNC: To see how the system works.

You underestimate their value and overestimate the value of volunteering for the DNC, IMO. You aren't privy to the inner-workings. You are just learning the process.

I already know how the process works. I was paying attention when the DNC gifted Obama with 59 delegates from Michigan, in 2008.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I have often gone back & forth on whether to even give 'them' my vote to defile.

I'm sure we share some major differences of opinion in a number of topics.
We should agree to the importance of focusing on the points where we do agree.
Even if the only reason is not to appear divided.

a reply to: randyvs

I'm good with focusing on common ground. I am certain we share lots of it.

Sooner will a camel pass through a needle's eye than a great man be 'discovered' by an election. Adolf Hitler

a reply to: TrueBrit

A long winded post that sums up your beliefs ::::

This is all natural.

Well if that is really true, prepare to have "NATURE" rearranged in such a fashion that most people will simply.......Vanish

a reply to: Konduit

Last time I had hamburger I fell asleep and had farts for days

a reply to: 727Sky
I have certainly noticed a general movement toward being informed in matters of politics among people, in both the US and Canada. The terms of Obama and Harper have left many discontented people with a taste for something progressive.

Sanders and Trump, and Trudeau and Mulcair in Canada, have enticed people of recent by appealing to disillusioned people.

a reply to: 727Sky

I honestly believe that the machines are rigged as well.
I have said the elections have been rigged for years.

We have no choice,what's becoming stunningly obvious is that there is a Globalist cartel pulling the strings who have funded the military industrial complex and are running the federal Reserve to steal the wealth off the American people plus many other insidious objectives such as social engineering to cause race division and the funding of ISIS.

All these establishment politicians which are basically 99% of the majority in the democats and Republicans serve the same agenda always and give the public lip service to make them believe they have a choice but the mask is coming off.

Every election so far is a con it's like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

2016?!? How about 1816...

Most people apparently only require the illusion of choice to be satisfied...and have been so for a long time.

a reply to: luthier

You guys can give up if you want I will fight to the end. One way or another. Im no mountain man but I am lucky to live in a very rural place and have woods and lakes to live in if hell breaks loose. I will do that too. We can make it, just let your inner animal come out. I say if we have a civil war: come to Tennessee. We'll all stick together. As real Americans. Give me liberty, or give me death.

a reply to: luthier

American's won't revolt until their electricity goes off.

And then, without internet and social media they will have no means of effective communication, and won't have any idea what to do.

They never do anything but talk about revolt anyway....

Not complacent, I coin a new word now....

Stuplacent.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
a reply to: luthier

American's won't revolt until their electricity goes off.

And then, without internet and social media they will have no means of effective communication, and won't have any idea what to do.

They never do anything but talk about revolt anyway....

Not complacent, I coin a new word now....

Stuplacent.

I think you are more or less right but not quite - when the electricity goes out, they will find ways to run the TV off car batteries. It won't be until those batteries run out and there are no more reality TV shows to watch that they will fall into despair and the rioting will start.

a reply to: 727Sky

This video highlights some of our well informed voters .. Maybe all really is lost ?
youtu.be...

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I'm good with focusing on common ground. I am certain we share lots of it.

That to.