Players So ‘Upset and Distraught’ Over Chants That They ‘Weren’t Able to Finish the Game’

a reply to: SmilingROB

Really?

You haven't been to many sporting events with your child lately have you. What we may or may not yell is immaterial. It's what other folks yell that is the issue and how you expect your kids to handle it.

Crowd noise is part of sports at every level.

I'll admit to being somewhat torn here. Or I was until I looked at some of the responses herein...

Yeah, when I played football, both kinds, we'd hear all kinds of crap. It didn't bother me all that much...but that sort of crap leaves a mark. Not a good one, either.

Times... Don't really change all that much, do they?

Boo the other team. Sure. Done all the time. Nothing wrong with it, at all. We certainly did in HS.

But when it comes to racial slurs and epithets? No. There is no room for that, at all. That's Hate...with a capital H. That's bigotry. That's f'n wrong. Wrong in great big capital letters.

Yeah, the world is a tough place. ...and these kids will find that out soon enough, obviously they already have. Why are we in such an all fired rush to make sure they know it? How about we let 'em be kids?

Those people in the stands should, but probably aren't, ashamed of themselves. There's a fine line between cheering, and heckling and abusing. They crossed it, and obliterated the line in the process.

They're not snowflakes...and I really wish people would stop using such an asinine phrase. What they are, is kids. ...and they're the victims of it. Why get mad at them?

originally posted by: seagull
I'll admit to being somewhat torn here.

I've experienced this kind of thing with kids.

It sucks. Kids can be really brutal.

"Sticks and Stones" isn't always enough.

Abuse really shouldn't be allowed.

a reply to: seagull

Not mad. Disappointed. This is not the way you deal with it.

The crowd should get there's, no doubt, and I'm sure they are. They'd almost have to be.

But at the same time, you have to stand up for yourself and not be cowed by this or you will go through life being cowed by stuff like this. This was a team and they were not alone. They had each other. They had their coach. I'm betting they had parents there at least some of them.

a reply to: seagull

So can you answer my questions about the US constitution?
Can you stove my face, nose, cheeks, and teeth in to punish me for disrespecting your wife?

Can you get away with forcing me to count my fingers and toes out as you break them? How about ribs?
What does the constitution say? I'm genuinely interested, I adapt easily to any jurisdiction because there is always the hardest gang in town, wherever you are in the world.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: amicktd
Another question to all who think they were just being snowflakes. Do you think mental abuse and physical abuse are equal or one is more damaging to an individual?

Physical abuse is measurable and causes actual pain. Mental abuse doesn't exist unless I allow it to affect me.

Right. Mental health isn't real. You heard it here folks, from one of the wisest, most illuminated members on ATS.

originally posted by: SmilingROB
a reply to: DBCowboy

Setting aside the sarcatistic comments for a moment.


Do the group of you who are excusing this 'chanting' as acceptable really want to establish thaat it okay to shout racial slurs in public?

If it's okay to shout slurs at kids then it's ...
okay to shout slurs in the mall
on the street
in the bar
ANd they Don't have to be just racial. They can be ...
Anti gender
Anti religion
Anti political

In a country that seems to be reeling back and forth on the race issue the US needs to balance it's freedom of speech with its MULT-Iculturalism and find away to be decent to other.

Shame on you who approve of shout anything at children except words of support.

You should stop thinking like a modern human and revert back to the caveman days if you want to participate in this thread.

a reply to: mulder85

truth..i'll leave it at that.

So does the constitution allow racist chants at kids sporting events or not?
...it all seems a bit disgraceful if it does, as far as I see things at least.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: seagull

So can you answer my questions about the US constitution?
Can you stove my face, nose, cheeks, and teeth in to punish me for disrespecting your wife?

Not sure where you're going with this, so I'll go along for the moment. It would greatly depend upon the form the "disrespect" takes. That, I should think, would be the same everywhere. Verbally abusing my wife/girlfriend? It might earn you an elbow shot at earliest convenience on my part, with a word or two for the reason behind said elbow. But a full scale beat-down? No. Depends upon the "disrespect".

Can you get away with forcing me to count my fingers and toes out as you break them? How about ribs?
What does the constitution say? I'm genuinely interested, I adapt easily to any jurisdiction because there is always the hardest gang in town, wherever you are in the world.

Seems unlikely. Not a big fan of torture, so it's unlikely I'd ever be pushed that far. If I'm ever that angry, I'm probably coming for your life, not to break fingers, save only as a happenstance. Don't get me wrong, in my day I have broken idiots bones, but that was more accident then intent. A mugger of my brief acquaintance got broken ribs and a wrist, but only after he stabbed me in the leg.

The US constitution, or interpretation there of, gives me the right to bear arms. For the express purpose of protecting me and mine. Torture doesn't fall under that protection...not for me, anyway.

a reply to: grainofsand

Some would say it does. Amendment One. Freedom of speech. Some would say that. I don't agree.

There's a corollary to that, unwritten though it may be, there are limits to free speech. Racial epithets/slurs should fall under those limits...

Freedom of speech, as you probably know, since you're a smart guy, is not the same thing to every person. Of all the amendments the first is the most important, but it's also pretty gray.

a reply to: seagull

So one cannot employ beatings when someone verbally insults another in the US then?
A different mod seems to assert we can.
What is the answer I wonder?

originally posted by: grainofsand
So does the constitution allow racist chants at kids sporting events or not?
...it all seems a bit disgraceful if it does, as far as I see things at least.

Free speech doesn't always mean smart speech.

But I would say yes, this kind of speech is allowed.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Call my wife a wet back, and you'll need a set of dentures. And I will be given a parade. I promise. Believe it or not.

Your quotes don't cut the mustard for me and I'd rather read whatever it is you believe the law will back you if I called your wife the word you posted earlier.
You've been evasive to my questions so I'll ask again, can you stove my face, nose, cheeks, and teeth in to punish me for disrespecting your wife?

Im unsure how much more clear I can be. I provided you links to gain understanding beyond where my explanation goes. I mean, i can't read it for you. I can't dump it into your head. And I can't force you to understand. All I can do is give you the stuff that answers your question and let you work through it.

Can you get away with forcing me to count my fingers and toes out as you break them?
What does your constitution say? I'm genuinely interested, I adapt easily to any jurisdiction because there is always the hardest gang in town, wherever you are in the world.

I dunno...is that what a reasonable person would do? Is that what it takes to stop the "fighting words"? I suspect no. Like I said...i gave you the information available to me. Feel free to go find your answers. If they differ from my understanding, feel free to return for us to discuss that.

So BFFT, come on, be honest and detailed, what exactly can I do to another human in your state if they disrespect my wife?

Ill tell you what: you actually go read the links i've provided thus far, and maybe ill provide you more.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: seagull

So one cannot employ beatings when someone verbally insults another in the US then?
A different mod seems to assert we can.
What is the answer I wonder?

I can guarantee you that if you actually go read the literature already given that answers your question, you can stop repeating the same question over and over.

Like i said: i can't read it for you. I can only provide it to you for you to read.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Okay, I'll leave you to your protestations.

originally posted by: grainofsand
So does the constitution allow racist chants at kids sporting events or not?
...it all seems a bit disgraceful if it does, as far as I see things at least.

One more reply to throw this out there: The constitution is not the ultimate law of the land. There are many things it does not discuss, mostly because the constitution does not enumerate restrictions on me as a citizen. It enumerates restrictions on the government. So, to answer your question about the constitution allowing racist remarks: the constitution has no opinion on that matter.

That being said, the first amendment can be ruled to not apply if you issued words of a vulgar nature with no intellectual value.

From there...its up to each state mostly. In Texas, i can whoop someones ass if I can prove "significant provocation". Since the criminial charges mostly related to disorderly conduct, the fine isn't much. But its highly likely that you would not be fined, and even if you were you'd likely not find a jury of your peers to convict you (if we are still talking about calling my wife names)

A bit of literature about that: www.mytexasdefenselawyer.com...

But i warn you: like the rest.....you have to actually read it.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ketsuko

Britain in the 70's/80's was overtly racist, in society and on the 4 TV channels.
Anti-racist legislation was created making it an offence to verbally abuse people in public. This also provided a platform for people to use reasonable force to prevent such abuse.
Racist people drew back from abusing people in public when they knew the law backed the citizens who challenged them, they died off with each generation, new generations grew up seeing people as people, and now we have a British society which is not perfect by any means, but it's way nicer than what you have in the US.

A few decades and a bit of reasonable legislation is all it took.
Perhaps you prefer the right to shout racist abuse at school kids at a sports match?

You are soooo confused about what we are about in the good 'ol US OF A.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SmilingROB

Really?

You haven't been to many sporting events with your child lately have you. What we may or may not yell is immaterial. It's what other folks yell that is the issue and how you expect your kids to handle it.

Crowd noise is part of sports at every level.

You act like all kids are the same. There are abused kids, kids without parents, kids from broken homes, hungry kids, depressed kid and GUESS WHAT? Playing a sport is supposed to help these kids and so are the adults in schools and in my opinion everywhere. This is the time to build self esteem to last them a lifetime.

Get over the man-up attitude toward kids and let them (make them) be kids while they can.

In 2001 in the US, 4,250 young people between the ages of 10 and 24 died by suicide. This is an average of one suicide roughly every two hours!

I feel like I should be surprised about a bunch of people fighting each other even though they are basically saying the same thing only from different perspectives and countries. But sadly I am not. I honestly think if everyone relaxed and stepped back and recognized that no one in this thread is one of the taunters and no amount of verbal lashing of ATS members is going to punish those people everyone would realize they are on the same exact side.

I guess there would be nothing to occupy us then though huh?