SkepticOverlord, please weigh in......

originally posted by: rickymouse
I'm two hundred sixty five pounds.

I used to be 265 -- and I'm 5'5".

Now I'm 140. Was it easy? HELL NO.

But, I'm glad I'll live past 50.

Being fat, and STAYING that way, is a choice. You have a condition? Cool, go for a walk. Hit the gym. Control your diet. Go on a food plan. There's any number of ways to keep ones weight in check, and outside of what I would hazard is a pretty small percentage, it's within your control if you choose to exercise that control.

I'm not a fan of knocking on somebody because they happen to be fat, but fat people are far from the only ones who have catcalls directed at them on ats.

a reply to: Shamrock6

And if none of that stuff works, you can (if you have insurance in this insanely expensive country) look into gastric bypass.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I'm 5'11 220 but I'm not fat. So I guess it all depends how you carry it. I have obese people in the family but they still fit inside one seat so I don't know what the problem is here.

a reply to: TechniXcality

There was a thread about a 400 lb man being removed from a flight.

originally posted by: nullafides
Everyone has the right to live life. Everyone has the right to do everything another person can do should they so wish. They deserve the right to do so without ridicule and without the openly protected "right" of others to torment them.

This tormenting between humans starts in most children before grade school age... Ridiculing other people for being different is a very natural human behavior. Kids get ridiculed for wearing glasses, braces, for being fat, skinny, tall, short, dark, light, their hair color, teeth... It's a childish behavior, but natural. I don't know why you think we deserve to live our lives without being ridiculed from time to time, but we don't. We are ALL ridiculed. We need to be secure in ourselves and realize that people who have grown up in years, yet never outgrown this childish need to put others down for their misfortunes, are simply showing their ignorance or prejudices. Shutting them up seems counter-productive.

Had that been a comment or thread about a certain race...gender...sexual orientation...religion...etc, and folks made the same blatant attacks (common to the 5th and 6th grade school children, might I add), they would have been censured. In an expeditious fashion.

I absolutely agree with you on this point. If most uncivil language breaks the T&C as regards decorum, then all of it should.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
... when there are things one can do to not be fat.

Why does that matter? A fat person is hurt just as much as a black, gay or handicapped person who is demeaned. It doesn't really matter if "it's a choice" or not, any more than it matters if being gay is a choice.

This isn't about being a protected class, it's about equal application of the T&Cs.

I'm of the mind that if people are going to insist on being asshats, by purposely trying to say hateful and hurtful, childish things about fat people (or black or gay people) it reflects on NO ONE but the speaker. It's not my place to try to make sure no one ever gets ridiculed. I can take it. In fact, if I had seen the thread in question, I would have had some ridicule of my own to pass out to the bullies... But it's our responsibility to have enough confidence to let the insults and ridicule bounce off.

Congrats on your weight loss. I've lost 100 lbs. for my health and future as well.

a reply to: Shamrock6

there are at least 26 prescription meds that cause weight gain,but,how is that a choice??

people are addicted to food proven by scans (their brain lights up when shown pics of food the exact same way an addicts brain lights up when shown a pic of their drug . how is that a choice?

people have been injured or have medical conditions...how is that a choice.

the level of leptin varies from person to person, the wrong level and these people never feel full, or they have to eat much much more to feel full....is that a choice?

heredity plays a part....some people can eat and eat and NEVER gain extra weight.... years ago we had a roommate who was always over weight and her little boy.....the boy would eat half of what was on his plate my daughter would clean her plate and finish his...she was a stick and he was fat....but he chose to eat less and put on the weight and my daughter chose to eat more and be stick skinny right?

some people go through horrible events as children and turn to eating in the only way to relieve their pain....these adults need lots of therapy to deal with what happened to them...that not a choice in the normal sense of the word.

lets face it, plane seats are too small.....the really cruel posts are uncalled for...you can post your experience without the extreme fat shaming thrown in....and idiotic posts that said "just eat a salad", just eat less...if it were that simple there wouldn't be any fat people....

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Well, the thing is...I can't choose to be white or straight. I can choose to seek out medical intervention to improve my health and not be obese. Even if my medication makes me gain weight, there are always alternatives and avenues to pursue.

I can't just have a doctor remove all my skin and replace it with another color skin.

I don't mock or make fun of obese people, because I remember being the one being made fun of and put down. HOWEVER, the "victim mentality" that some in that camp exhibit frustrates me as someone who used to be fat.

This "there's nothing I can do!" or "you don't understand!" -- yes, yes I do. I went and DID something about it. I didn't wallow in my own self pity and make excuses. I didn't milk people for sympathy.

So, please excuse me if I get frustrated by people who make excuses and blame-shift their current weight problems to everything under the sun.

Care And Feeding Of Metaphorical Livestock

My two bits...

Cows aren't sacred, only ponies.

"Sacred cows", political correctness and other social taboos are forms of psychological control. Their purpose is to prevent people from speaking or behaving in unapproved ways and thereby mold thought to the specifications of those who impose them.

Consequently, they are routinely discussed and deconstructed where they are not enforced, such as in many venues on the Internet, and those who depend on them predictably take offense at the loss of power such discussions represent.

While there are some restrictions in the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use that could be considered in the same vein (notably in section 15, which proscribes a list of offensive content not suitable for ATS), anything that isn't prohibited by them is fair game.

That will inevitably offend someone.

Discussing controversial topics without them ceaselessly devolving into flame wars is still possible, however, as long as the focus remains on the topics themselves, rather than each other. That is indeed the foundation of civility.

The greatest practical value of civility in online discussions is that its alternatives are tedious and uninteresting. When all is said and done, no one really cares about threads full of insults, even the people posting in them. There's already an overabundance of them on the Internet -- alt.flame alone far exceeded the world's requirements over a quarter-century ago -- making everything that follows no better than rehashed, write-only content.

Hence the emphasis on topical focus, and the virtue of maintaining it as best we collectively can. Opinions vary, which is good, and as long as we can express them without undue restriction, it's ideal.

Or at least that's my opinion, anyway.

Your Mileage May Vary.






tl;dr version: It's not what we physically weigh that matters, but the weight of our convictions.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Hm. I've always heard that former-smokers are the rudest towards smokers. The ones that if you pass by them outside with a cigarette, they begin to hack and cough and fan the air, and glare at you, trying to make you believe you are killing them in that one moment.

What you said about overweight people kind of reminds me of that. Sort of a superiority kind of thing.

Everybody is not you.

a reply to: research100

Medication can cause weight gain? There are diets, workouts, other medications and the gastric bypass operation that can offset that weight gain.

Having your doctor tweak your dosage or look into alternative medications is also an option.

Injured? Try swimming or some other low-impact type of exercise.

Genetic? Have gastric bypass.

The onus shouldn't be on ME to throw out a gazillion alternatives and suggestions for people to loose weight. That's not MY job. If you are fat and unhappy about it -- do some research and put in the HARD WORK it takes.

I don't buy this "there isn't a choice!" garbage. No one ever makes you do anything at the end of a gun. You always have a choice, and there are always alternatives if you look for them.

If you don't want to be fat badly enough, you can and will find ways to remedy the situation.

That's what I did. I got tired of not taking personal responsibility for my own weight, and didn't like the fact my doctor said I'd be lucky to live past 50.

So now I'm down over 100lbs. My natural body metabolism would have me fat again in an instant, so I'm constantly on guard.

Trying to argue with me about obesity is like telling a black man he's being racist against his own race.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I'm not rude to fat people, and for the most part have never said disparaging things to any of them in person or over the internet.

And you know why ex-smokers are probably rude? They know and have walked in the shoes of the smoker. They, ABOVE ANYONE ELSE have more of a right to criticize than anyone else.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Does vaping still count as smoking? I vape and still consider myself a smoker.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

The onus shouldn't be on ME to throw out a gazillion alternatives and suggestions for people to loose weight. That's not MY job.

No. It's not.

And you know why ex-smokers are probably rude? They know and have walked in the shoes of the smoker. They, ABOVE ANYONE ELSE have more of a right to criticize than anyone else.

No. They don't.

a reply to: Autorico

Dunno, but all the people who vape I know are pretty darn condescending against smokers. I think they know that its a tad bit healthier, and it wasn't a huge ordeal to switch over....so they have very little sympathy or tolerance for people who still smoke regular cigarettes.

In all my nearly seventy years of life, there are few very early days that I didn't observe people mocking someone else for whatever.

Too fat, too skinny, too musclebound, too clumsy, too white, black or tanned, wrong hat, wrong pants, wrong walk, wrong talk... you name a feature and I've seen it mocked by someone. I've heard kids mocking each other, their older siblings/parents and old farts sitting on the park bench feeding pigeons bothering nobody and I've heard older people knocking young people quite a lot too.

The mockers always have that 'superior grin plastered on their faces like their own poo doesn't stink. Yeah, right...

Such behaviour shows a lack of 'minding your own business' and really low personal qualities, but it's so prevalent in life that if you don't grow some thick skin, you're going to live with a 'thousand cuts' of pain until you do.

Human nature being what it is...

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Really? Wow. I don't doubt your experience with vapers. The few I have ran into were ok with cigs still. One even came out with me when I smoked because he still liked the smell.

Look, trying to tell me I can't criticize the victim mentality and attention-sympathy-seeking behavior of obese people is like telling a gay man he can't be critical of other gay men, or a police officer can't be critical of other police officers who condone abuse of power.

I know better than anyone else what it means to be obese.

You won't find me mocking an obese person, or saying rude comments about them.

Now, if an obese person comes to me complaining about their weight -- I'll still hold my tongue. Once these folks start listing off excuses why they're still fat, after indicating to me that they wish they weren't as big as they are -- then we're going to have some problems.

I've even been known to give high-fives and give encouragement to total strangers at my gym who I've noticed loosing weight. I know it's hard as hell, so I let them know that someone (me) has noticed. I remember what it feels like to have someone (anyone really) notice. Never in my life have ever mocked or looked down on someone large at the gym struggling on a machine or treadmill.

In fact, I have an even BIGGER problem with those punks.

The people that openly mock those trying to loose weight at the gym? I have no problem confronting those people with a dose of reality.

It's not easy to put yourself on display as an obese person on a piece of workout equipment at a gym. Those folks have my most utmost respect. They are taking their personal power back. They are taking charge of their life, and saying, "NO -- I am not a victim of circumstance, I am in charge of my life and how I look. I am doing something about something I don't like, despite how hard it is".

That is a much healthier mental attitude than, "Well there's nothing I can do...it's not my fault...I'll always be this way...feel sorry for me..."

As I mentioned in the thread in question, I once went from a fit 185 to a fat, lethargic, unhealthy 250. I later got tired of what I'd become and instead of blaming everyone else for my situation, cut out all the processed and fast food, went back to eating salads, grass fed meat and fruits/veggies, exercised 6X a week and got back to my fit 185.

It's mostly a choice.

Now, did I experience different treatment when I was an overweight slob? Sure did. That was part of the motivation. I was either ignored in public altogether or got weird glances/stares from people. I could have blamed them for not being accepting but realized I was the one who didn't look normal, I was the one who didn't look like a human who cared or took care of himself. So I changed.

I have little respect for the current babying of people in modern day society. Either accept who and what you are or change. It's on you, the individual. Sure some people are mean to fatties, but as a Trump supporter I've been called almost every name in the book around here. I don't see anyone attempting to shut down Trump discussion even though his supporters have been called racists, bigoted idiots time and time again.

We need people to have their right to opinion and expression, otherwise we're going to continue trending towards the "Trump 2016" written in chalk is hate speech type BS.

I do understand some people might be offended by some of the words in the thread in question but I'm far more offended that that thread has been closed because a few are offended. That limits speech, dialogue and discussion and that's a scary road to go down given anyone can claim "I'm offended" at any time.