Vox’s new presidential tax calculator - 2016 version

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Why are we even arguing over this misleading calculator?

I've shown that unless you make over $250,000 a year, you're taxes won't change.

Because I've proven you were wrong?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Look at Sander's tax scale on page one. I don't see any increase for people making under $250,000. You can't miss it -- it's the big blue infographic.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

All right, let's theorize.

We pool our money to build bridges, etc., but we also all get a benefit out of that.

I fail to see how we all get a benefit out of some of the "free" stuff being proposed, and once you start making the excuse that if we just forced everyone to pool all their stuff for the good of all ... where does it end? At what point does it stop being for the greater to good to pool all our stuff and let the beneficent government elites make all your decisions for you and bestow everything upon you?

If you decide they should make all your health care choices, then maybe they should make all your food choices, well then, how about housing ... but maybe they ought to delegate your work and decide what each of us is fit to do ... after all it's not fair that I don't get to do the job I think I'm best suited for ...

And once the government starts swallowing up ever larger sectors of the economy it may not be possible to stop it. It may become a necessity for it either go all the way or for the whole thing to come crashing down. We see this now with $19T in debt.

a reply to: ketsuko

Now you're just using the logical fallacy of "appeal to extremes", mixed with some straw man argumentation to boot.

I'm not even going to attempt to refute that absurdity.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Bernie's agenda is a lie and disaster, America is not based on socialism, socialism is a cancer on human potential, government and people did just fine before welfare programs, people were not and won't be 'dying in the streets', government needs to be reduced so people can achieve.

Why do liberals, progressives and socialists have such low opinions of their fellow citizens?

It may be a waste of time to tell this to millennials that have been steeped in the bile of government-run public schools, but it can't hurt to try.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I guess I'm confused.

Why does the left want to lose more of their money? Why do they want to pay higher taxes?

Paying more in taxes, and paying more in income are not the same thing. If you spend $3000 on healthcare under Sanders in taxes but you're paying $5000 out of pocket now you end up with $2000 more in your pocket despite your taxes going up by $3000.

True, but I lose control over the type, quality of healthcare.

Not worth the savings, imho.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu


Why do liberals, progressives and socialists have such low opinions of their fellow citizens?

Apparently, we NEED to be taken care of. We NEED government oversight over every aspect of our lives.

People, apparently, are too stupid to embrace aspects of personal responsibility.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Wow. You two are reaching really deep into the sludge pit to keep up this stupid argument against Bernie.

Just saying.

Really, really reaching. And wrong on so many points that it's just, well, embarrassing (for you, and for ATS).

Bernie's platform is neither a "lie" nor a "disaster." America already has socialism in exactly the same way that he is promoting. How can it possibly be that you don't understand this????

Libraries,
highways,
schools (oh, I know - public schools are beneath you.....) (but then again - you went to K-State, a PUBLIC UNIVERSITY),
police,
firemen,
ambulance,
social security,
medicaid/medicare,

It's ALL SOCIALISM, and all Bernie wants to do is expand HEALTH CARE to everyone (saving YOU thousands of dollars in payroll withholdings), and public education from K-12 to K-16.

WHAT on EARTH can you possibly argue against those things?

Oh. Right. You're dug in to your misunderstandings and confirmation-biased, right-wing, hysterical rhetoric.

Only reason I keep asking is that I haven't given up hope that you are intelligent enough to come around to common sense and actual journalism. That you are not actually hopelessly brainwashed.
I know you want me to mind my own business. But - fact is - your kid is part of the future. Please, don't infect him with your malignant and counter-productive, sensationalist thinking.


And the icing on the cake is that Bernie wants to STOP CORRUPTION in campaign finance, and end "Citizens United" - but, perhaps you're all about those things, and see them as being great. How many jobs have been out-sourced to "developing countries"? How many dollars are stashed tax-free in the Cayman Islands? How many politicians are bought by lobbyists (now that I think about it, didn't your lovely wife say at one point that you are on some lobbyist team? Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think I remember that); Bernie also wants to break up the big banks and END corporate welfare (which is when YOU pay for the foodstamps of the underpaid employees of corps that off-shore their money, and their jobs, and DON'T PAY ANY TAXES).

But - well, whatever. Either you comprehend it, or you don't.
And apparently (obviously), you don't.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You are deluded.

Just saying.

originally posted by: TommyD1966
a reply to: Teikiatsu

According to that calculator:
- I am better off under Trump
- I am WAY better off under Cruz (10% flat tax)
- Stay the same under Hillary
- Pay a cr@p-ton more if it's Bernie

So, as long as it isn't Bernie I guess I'll be ok

You also have to take into account what those tax dollars go toward under a higher tax rate and what funding is cut under the lower tax rate.

If you could get single payer health insurance and federally funded schooling you just may fair better under the higher tax rate.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Well VOX is a left leaning site, so it has no reason whatsoever to make Bernie look bad.

Being left leaning really means nothing here with this. They could be pushing a Clinton agenda.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Bernie's agenda is a lie and disaster, America is not based on socialism, socialism is a cancer on human potential, government and people did just fine before welfare programs, people were not and won't be 'dying in the streets', government needs to be reduced so people can achieve.

Why do liberals, progressives and socialists have such low opinions of their fellow citizens?

It may be a waste of time to tell this to millennials that have been steeped in the bile of government-run public schools, but it can't hurt to try.

Dude...someone must have not given you the memo...

The Cold War is over, McCarthyism is over. The "Red Menace" is no more. "Real" Communism has never existed, and is not, and was not any real threat. All of that crap post WWII was just propaganda between two countries to enslave their respective populations and enrich the elites of both.

So, instead of discussing this...'calculator' that is patently false and intentionally misleading, we've now descended down some rabbit hole of circular logic in which you refuse to be wrong. The facts are the facts, unless you make over $250k a year, your taxes won't change. In fact, if by the grace of god we institute national healthcare -- you'd actually SAVE money.

This is like smart phones. I know I hated smart phones when they first came out (I also hated onions as a kid, sort of the same thing). Then, I ended up with one. I bitched, moaned, and made all kinds of excuses as to why it sucked and I hated dragging it around.

Now? Don't you touch my iPhone! Don't you dare take the onions off my hamburger!

Everyone likes to hate things they don't have experience with. It's easy to hate and express emotions of anger and fear. They're comfortable, they require little critical thinking. It's easier to wander around the world seeing things in black/white or 1 and 0. It simplifies things requires less brainpower.

Eat your damn vegetables already and see for yourself that it's not nearly what you've worked it all up to in your head already. It's going to happen eventually anyway, you might as well start preparing your pallet for it.

I get that conservatives like being the victim and underdog, it's a safer stance to take. You can't criticize a victim or you're seen as an evil monster. Nice tactic.

Change is inevitable as progress always marches forward. We're more progressive than 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 500, and 1,000 years ago. It feels rebellious, macho and masculine to partner with the loosing side of history, fighting the "rebel fight" -- but perhaps, and just maybe its a huge and enormous waste of time?



Oh, you really should read that memo, by the way... I think I have an extra copy of it around somewhere. I kept one just in case someone lost theirs.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

You and I should both do a mic drop here, and exit stage left.
ready?......

*mic drop* and *mic drop*

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It's about time I pull this one out, dust him off and begin using him around ATS:



Well, the facts are the facts. For a huge chunk of America their taxes won't change, and if universal healthcare was instituted they'd actually save money. Inevitable change is...inevitable, and fighting against it is like a toddler who refuses to eat their vegetables.

originally posted by: defiythelie
If you could get single payer health insurance and federally funded schooling you just may fair better under the higher tax rate.

Big *if* there. Since when has government shown itself to be efficient and responsive? How's that $2500 less deductible across the board to every man, woman and child that the Democrats promised working out?

We already have federal funds to schools. And record drop-out and illiteracy rates.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Change is inevitable as progress always marches forward. We're more progressive than 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 500, and 1,000 years ago. It feels rebellious, macho and masculine to partner with the loosing side of history, fighting the "rebel fight" -- but perhaps, and just maybe its a huge and enormous waste of time?

We had true progress in 1776 when a plucky group of colonists realized that government serves people, not the other way around. It led to innovation that put that smart phone in your pocket. If you let government handle something like that, we'd still be using land lines and the internet would still be a green-screen email system sitting in a DOD basement.

Your ignorance on economic and historic matters is troubling. But then, you like to deny it then give yourself a trophy for participating.

and....BOOM!!!!

Read it and deal with it, OP:

Exposing the media and the establishment's stealth attack on the progressive movement



You ready????

Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) sent out a recent email blast that raises concerns. It seems the stealth attack on the real progressive movement is coming from all directions—even from parts of the media that are considered liberal.

FAIR is critical of a Vox tax calculator that portends to give Americans an objective view of their tax outcome based on which presidential candidate is elected.

This isn’t only a hit job by one “liberal” news organization—it’s a hit job by a “non-partisan” think tank, as well.

Get a clue: just because you read it on the internet doesn't make it's true.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Get a clue: just because you read it on the internet doesn't make it's true.

hahahahahahaha

Since I'm reading what you wrote. . . . . on the internet.

hahahahahahahahahaha

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Funny, those "plucky group of colonists" were pretty anti-aristocratic...

And these days? The party that venerates them (The GOP/Republicans) kiss and kneel before the wealthy.

Somehow folks of this political persuasion believe the neo-aristocracy will bestow upon them blessings of trickle-down wealth if only they serve with unquestioning loyalty and loving adoration.

That's some straight up brainwashing if you ask me.

The government is just a front for the corporations and wealthy. It adds legitimacy, gives a softer "for the people" mask to the people. The corporations and wealthy elites run the show, and use the government as if it were one of their own limbs. The 'government' doesn't do anything on its own, it does what its paid to do by the people with the money to pay it.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The sad thing?

It doesn't take much to see that the calculator is BS. Just some real basic reading comprehension.

People in this thread have had the fact that it's utter nonsense pointed out to them, but they just stare blankly and change the subject.

They don't care about the truth if it doesn't fit their narrative.

That's where we are as a society...we just ignore the stuff we don't like and binge on the stuff we do. We create bubbles around us that are totally distorted.

We're creating a society of neurotic and mentally ill people who won't be able to interact with one another in the near future. In the not-to-distant future, people's individual realities will be so far apart, no one will even be able to communicate with one another. I'm serious.