Vox’s new presidential tax calculator - 2016 version

a reply to: 200Plus

Well than I am greedy. Don't really care.

It is insane that people actually back this clown.

Did any of you NOT READ how Trump is pretty much giving the farm away to the rich, and throwing us all a bone -- all the while increasing the national debt TRILLIONS because of lost revenue?

None of you will end up paying more in taxes unless you are celebrity-status wealthy.

"Yeah but under Trump I'll save!" ...

And the economy will get worse, the income inequality will get even worse, the debt will get worse...the rich will take their money and leave in greater numbers.

It's like a bunch of kids with no attention span wanting ONE candy bar NOW, instead of having a sandwich to eat for lunch every day, for decades.

Good lord the short sightedness.

And no, VOX is pushing for Hillary, because if you read between the lines they make fun of Trump...

a reply to: MystikMushroom

SPENDING increases the deficit. A reduction in income always means you need to reduce your budgetary outlays. It's time the federal government realize this.

TRUMP 2016: For our wallets and our futures.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Did any of you NOT READ how Trump is pretty much giving the farm away to the rich, and throwing us all a bone -- all the while increasing the national debt TRILLIONS because of lost revenue?

I did. I've said it in other threads too. Trump is all about big government. Not only that, but his tax plan is such that he's not only going to increase spending but he wants to cut revenues that pay for it. Very fiscally irresponsible, but it does fit his management style where he offloads debt to individual companies and then lets them go bankrupt while everything else profits.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
SPENDING increases the deficit. A reduction in income always means you need to reduce your budgetary outlays. It's time the federal government realize this.

TRUMP 2016: For our wallets and our futures.

Trump will increase spending by at minimum 50%. The outlays for his programs are actually higher than those of Sanders, except Sanders actually wants to pay for them Trump doesn't.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

How about we spend BETTER and GET MORE for our buck before cutting?

Like -- oh, I don't know a universal healthcare system that would save everyone money?

If you are voting for Trump, your robbing Peter to pay Paul. You're being short sighted and taking the peanuts now, in exchange for Eylsium-like future.

Follow your advice and the divide will only grow faster. And don't kid yourself Burd, you and I won't be living on the top image. You, me, and our kids will be living in the bottom half of the picture after the wealthy have sucked everything dry from us.



It's all about "gotta get mine NOW!" and not what life will be 10 or 20 years down the road.

More right wing lies. This has gotten so tiresome.

TRUMP 2016: For Trumps wallet and no future

Getting back on topic of the OP.....

Quite interesting when I punched in a single unemployed person with a child. They win big time under Bernie:



Don't get married though. An unemployed couple with that same single child makes a big difference:

a reply to: MystikMushroom

More science fiction fantastical predictions of dystopian future... Here's an idea: Let's try actually EARNING our way in life. If there's something you want or need, work towards it. You know, self responsibility?

If I had my druthers, we'd cut social spending to the bone, charge foreign governments for any and all US military involvement in their issues, flat tax across the board, close the borders fully to anyone who can't pass a strict economic means test, and be done with all of this bullcrap... but nobody's running on that platform, so I'll go with Trump. ANd yeah, it's about time the American middle class could say "I got mine from my paycheck" instead of what we're stuck with now of "Everybody below me got mine, straight from my paycheck."

a reply to: burdman30ott6

So you want extreme fiscal conservatism but want to elect someone who has proposed $2 trillion/year in new spending without any spending cuts? Even Bernie is only $1.8 trillion.

You really think your taxes would go DOWN under Trump? That money has to come from somewhere, and I promise you the government is responsible enough to not put it all onto the debt.

a reply to: Aazadan

See, that's the thing -- it's all about deflection and not addressing the things I actually said. The goal posts always move when a solid answer can't be offered up.

Yep, you're right -- the money has to come from somewhere.

a reply to: eriktheawful

How can we get back to the OP when the calculator is misleading and not truthful? It doesn't predict or project anything "real" at all?

Those numbers you just posted aren't real, won't be real under any of the candidates running for office -- under ANY circumstances.

It's a fantasy calculator, giving numbers that won't ever exist in the real world.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I've addressed them in the past, and you ignore it. There is a seriously disingenuous trend among liberals to consider tax cuts "spending," and that's where the entirety of the "Donald Trump will spend more" nonsense comes from. Bernie Sanders' plan increases taxes massively AND adds deficit spending on top of it.

The global trade policies Trump advocates are also ignored. A huge part of his platform is significant reduction to the massive trade deficits the US has with Asia and South America. If implemented, his plan adds tariff monies to the budget along with rebuilding the American manufacturing sector, which leads to large job growth, which increases the tax base. We presently have 100 million working age Americans not in the work force in the USA... that's lost tax revenue right there (or "spending" as some seem to mistakenly call it). Bernie wants those of us who are working to provide for these people, Trump wants to rebuild a nation that provides these people with an opportunity to support themselves through working.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
The global trade policies Trump advocates are also ignored. A huge part of his platform is significant reduction to the massive trade deficits the US has with Asia and South America. If implemented, his plan adds tariff monies to the budget along with rebuilding the American manufacturing sector, which leads to large job growth, which increases the tax base. We presently have 100 million working age Americans not in the work force in the USA... that's lost tax revenue right there (or "spending" as some seem to mistakenly call it). Bernie wants those of us who are working to provide for these people, Trump wants to rebuild a nation that provides these people with an opportunity to support themselves through working.

If his trade policies existed in a vacuum...maybe.

They don't, nor will they play out nearly as cleanly as Trump thinks.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

You seem confused. The Tax Policy Center has a gentleman with 22 years of experience working for the Congressional Budget Office who put together a FAQ of sorts to explain the calculator and clear up confusion.
www.vox.com...

As you can see, the calculator is clearly truthful and, as far as leading, mis- or otherwise goes, only leads people to the clear path of what they can expect to see in tax increase or reduction for each candidate.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

No, that's not where it comes from. Trump has advocated NUMEROUS expansions in government. He wants to build a ton of infrastructure, he will expand social programs (as he likes to remind people, he has a big heart), he wants to double the size of the military, he wants to invade countries. These things all cost money, $2 trillion/year right now and that's being generous because no one is considering the healthcare of veterans in these costs (like that extra $8 trillion Iraq is going to cost us over the next 2 decades).

Trump has never been for small government and this is a guy who has proposed massive wealth taxes to pay off the national debt. The candidate that will cost you the least is either Cruz or Trump depending on if you want to count removing government service and replacing them with private sector ones as actually saving money.

Trumps trade practices will also cost you more money. The idea behind what he proposes is that we pay more for goods but we're employing our own people rather than foreigners. It's a net gain to the country but a net loss to the individual. There's merits to this plan but lets not pretend for an instant that it's going to put more money in your pocket, it won't. It will devalue the dollar if you do import products and it will raise the price of domestic products you buy.

I guess I'm confused.

Why does the left want to lose more of their money? Why do they want to pay higher taxes?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I guess I'm confused.

Why does the left want to lose more of their money? Why do they want to pay higher taxes?

Paying more in taxes, and paying more in income are not the same thing. If you spend $3000 on healthcare under Sanders in taxes but you're paying $5000 out of pocket now you end up with $2000 more in your pocket despite your taxes going up by $3000.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: 0zzymand0s

Eh, won't work for us. If Bernie raises taxes to set off pay for health care for all, we have employer coverage.

Doesn't universal or single payer health care terminate employer coverage and transfer people to one coverage? I don't know, just asking.

a reply to: ketsuko

Fair enough. I'm self employed and have an 18 year old and a 14 year old, so the garbage that passes for coverage these days just doesn't work for me. Hence the more spendy / low deductible "Cadillac" plan.

I haven't seen good employer-based coverage in a decade or more. Here in Colorado, the mindset is on "cheap," so they serve up high deductible plans designed to bankrupt single parents like me.

originally posted by: StoutBroux
Doesn't universal or single payer health care terminate employer coverage and transfer people to one coverage? I don't know, just asking.

Yes. Single payer puts most of the insurance companies out of business. It also removes the concept of your healthcare coming from the goodness of your employers heart. Instead the government directly pays medical providers to give you service.

Essentially, it eliminates the middlemen and allows for collective bargaining, by doing so it provides more efficient service.