How would legal gun ownership protect citizens from a terrorist attack?

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: imjack

You're right, the argument is silly.

Especially when one is arguing with oneself.

My arguement with you guys ended when legal gun ownership didn't equal easier access to guns, and instead lead to harder acess. That's just wrong.

a reply to: imjack

In what way is it "sickness"?

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: imjack

In what way is it "sickness"?

It's delusional to think that's not why we have high homicide with guns. If more people registered their guns,more would get caught using them ilegally. You understand registration is to prove what bullets you shot from your gun? An unmarked gun is not always traceable.

If you think we need more access to guns, my comment is we should really register the 30 million we have just laying around. Barely any other countries even has 30 million guns, none the less UNREGISTERED ones. If you fail to see the link between that and crime well then damn, all I can say is more legal acess to guns will only further the problem with the ones that end up being sold ilegally. Ilegal gun salesmen obviously want lighter restrictions to boost business too.

It almost goes without saying more guns means more access to ilegall ones, but I suppose this is where we disagree.

a reply to: imjack

If you think, for one moment, (speaking only for myself, mind you...) that I'll ever register my guns, on the off chance, and it's a slim one, that it'll prevent crime you're barking up the wrong tree.

I won't. Nor will I ever.

...and not because the ebul Gubmint is comin' to get 'em, either. Though that is a tertiary consideration. It's because I shouldn't have to be held accountable for the actions of fools/criminals.

You want to register your guns, assuming you have any, go right ahead. I'm guilty of nothing, so I'm not going to willingly sign up for some form of parole that could be revoked at any point. *bleep* that stuff.

Big bad guns are so very scary. Registering them will some how change that? I'd be curious to know how.

a reply to: seagull

Registering them will make them not shoot them because they will KNOW the consequences...a detective will LINK a registered gun to a bullet...

Unregistered guns ONLY help criminals avoid detection of using firearms. If your gun is for self defence, you have 0 reason to be afraid of the cops proving you shot it.

Also registration is to help prevent previous criminals from obtaining guns. Too bad this only works if you buy the gun from the store, because any felon can buy an unregistered guns with cash in hand from another person. This occurance happens more than anywhere because of the number of unregistered guns we have. If you don't want to register your gun that's fine, but why allow legislation to push more access of guns and cause more unregistered ones? I don't see how this benefits someone who's currently already a gun owner. You have your gun, start voting against it or you're just raising the odds you get shot...

a reply to: imjack

I am going to say this even though I know I shouldnt...

There are 10's of millions of "unregistered" guns already out there in the USA...so to make your fever dream a reality you would have to forcibly enter and register every gun in every home in the country.

Even then you still wouldnt get them all..

AND on top of that you still would have failed to address the fact that GUNS are not the problem.. broken homes, kids not having parents, lack of accountability for their actions, abusive homes... are all symptoms that have lead to the current problem with murder in our country.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: introvert

If it is found out YOU ARE mistaken.
I can see C&R purchases before the 60s, MAYBE but they ARE indeed illegal.
Private sales were killed by Clinton as well.

I don't know what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?

a reply to: Irishhaf

Those things are problems everywhere.

I'm not saying we should ACTUALLY register the guns, I'm using that as a ground point of difficulty to say that's why we shouldn't make legal guns any EASIER to obtain than now, as it will only make this problem, and it is a problem, bigger.

With 30 million unregistered guns obtaining a gun is super easy, there's no reason to make THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT BACKGROUND CHECK work any less hard.

If you think it's too difficult to buy one from the store just buy one of the millions of unregistered ones and stop complaining about the laws...

You don't have to be a criminal once you have an unregistered gun...how is making gun stores less strict going to keep them out of the hands of criminals?

a reply to: imjack

How is making it more strict going to stop a criminal from getting a gun?

Laws only affect those that are going to obey the law anyways..

Either way peace Im out for bed.

originally posted by: imjack

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: imjack

You're right, the argument is silly.

Especially when one is arguing with oneself.

My arguement with you guys ended when legal gun ownership didn't equal easier access to guns, and instead lead to harder acess. That's just wrong.

And yet here you are, still banging away.

Truth be told, the "argument" ended when you changed the parameters of your basis. Nothing you've said since then is much more than moot.

"We don't need more guns!" Okay, so what's your solution? Ban the manufacture of guns from X date forward? What effect does that have on the "problem" you keep banging on about in the here and now?

"Don't make it easier to get guns!" Well, you're arguing both sides here. Keeping it the way it is, one has to go through a hoop or two to get a gun legally. Or you can just go illegally buy one which is super easy, according to you. "You don't even have to be a criminal after you buy it!" Well if it's an illegal transaction, you're already a criminal. So that's blatantly false.

I haven't, at any point, said anything about loosening restrictions on purchasing firearms. I also haven't seen you state anything that's an actual workable solution to what you perceive to be a problem. Registering legally owned guns isn't the solution, since you yourself threw out a stat that most gun crime is committed by illegally possessed firearms.

Much spinning of wheels, no real traction.

a reply to: introvert

Bill illegalizzed personal sales?
It's illegal to exchange a firearm without an back ground check now?

Purchasing a weapon ilegally doesn't make it a gun crime...it's just ilegal. The point is obvious that if 93% of gun crime has this happen first, it makes good logical sense why that should be ilegal in the first place.

The wheels are spinning because the only people that agree guns protect you from terrorists obviously are using that agenda to push for more guns...Short of it being completely unreasonable, this is just being used as a footnote in the arguements for owning guns and it really has no place in those conversations. Your average gun owner will hit a civilians before ever landing consecutive marks on a terrorist with an automatic weapon. Your average gun owner will shoot themselves and others in many more 'accidents' overall than terrorist events. There have been more accidental gun deaths than people killed by terrorists in the last 5 years alone, and 1,800 were under the age of 25, and that's just DEATH not injury and life changing paralysis. That all being said, you would be the most unlucky person in all American history to also be involved any more than a single terrorist attack. So you need to own a gun fulltime for this?

a reply to: imjack

Purchasing a weapon in an illegal manner in the United States , would cause one to be in violation of that nations firearms legislation, and it is that legislation under which one would be tried. If convicted, the crime would be logged as a firearms offence, a gun crime.

That is not a point for debate, it is simply how the law works.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: imjack

Purchasing a weapon in an illegal manner in the United States , would cause one to be in violation of that nations firearms legislation, and it is that legislation under which one would be tried. If convicted, the crime would be logged as a firearms offence, a gun crime.

That is not a point for debate, it is simply how the law works.

Look that's NOT the point, the 93% statistic is gun crime NOT involving purchasing them. How is that not even a given? The source is gunfacts.info.

a reply to: imjack

Well you bought it up!

There are lots of gun crimes that do not involve hostility or death. Owning the wrong gun in the wrong state, wrong barrel length, wrong number of rounds in the mag, wrong ammunition, wrong modifications.... All of these can be offences if you happen to be standing the wrong side of an invisible line between two states!

a reply to: TrueBrit

Yes but in crime that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GUNS, murder, robbery, something that is not a equivalent to an maintenance ticket on your car, 93% of the time a firearms is used, it's an ilegal unregistered gun. The 93% isn't just all gun offences. It's the % of the time in those non-gun offences a gun was ilegally used and unregistered. In 100% of cases the gun was ilegally used and purchasing the gun legally has no bearing on that...

a reply to: imjack

But those offences were committed with gun in hand. If a robber is armed with a gun, it is an armed robbery, an offence under firearms legislation and theft law at once. One does not separate the tool from the weilder depending on the legality of the action, or the possession of the weapon!

a reply to: TrueBrit

When I say 93% of gun crime involves unregistered guns, obviously I'm not talking about purchasing a gun being the ilegal gun crime -_-. Im not DISPUTING THAT ITS A CRIME THAT INVOLVES GUNS OR IS ILEGAL.

Otherwise 93% doesn't even make sense. Unless people that legally own guns are the only ones that commit crimes.


I'm saying 93% of the time a gun is violently used, they !!!!!ALSO!!!!! first purchased a gun ilegally BEFORE THAT.

a reply to: imjack

Ok...

How would you respond to the fact that there is less gun crime now than there was in 2010? In fact, much less crime altogether?

a reply to: TrueBrit

Obama hates guns. More guns registration laws. Less unregistered guns. Less gun violence.

While crazy automatic weapons are still easy to get, a handgun is comparably much harder than it used to be to obtain, while still VERY easy. Comparably better doesn't mean there isn't a problem, it means it's being fixed... % wise we still murder 20x more people than UK with guns, and we almost have more unregistered guns than China has total guns.

-shrugs- most of America's gun problems speak for themselves in the statistics. I'm at loss for words for people that disagree. I chalk it up to patriotism and how it's more part of our culture to deny guns are ever bad.