Kansas lawmakers want to pay students who 'out' trans students

a reply to: imjack

The issue clearly is the sexual nature of having a penis in the girls room. Girls are sexually predisposed way too early in society these days and it makes perfect sense why this has some people upset.

The real question though is how do you know that their is an evil penis in the bathroom? Anyone outside of a police officer asking to see my ID is going to get told to shove off and that's assuming I'm even carrying an ID that day. Also to be honest I would probably resist a cops unlawful request to see my ID but that in the end would be more of a battle for my lawyer. Then there is the fact as you stated that it's actually pretty easy to change one's gender on their ID in most states these days. So with the aforementioned changes made to the ID their isn't much discourse for the angry citizen that is suspicious of the contents of my trousers. Hey maybe this will mark an evolutionary change in humans, perhaps we will end up going around sniffing each others crotches like dogs *he he* couldn't resist as I find it difficult to be too serious or too upset for very long.

It would seem that the more simple minded among us hold very low opinions of males and believe that every person with a penis whether trans or not is on the verge of some sort of sexual emergency, you know the kind that happen frequently in the Middle East. I have a question for the ladies here, when is the last time you were in a public facility and actually got a glimpse of the genitals in the stall next you? From my experience the answer is zero. This almost seems like a joke to me, one where I envision people running around screaming and flailing their arms as if they were on fire because they saw a penis by accident.

Locker rooms are an entirely different argument altogether and mostly because of their forced use in schools. For example lets say a Trans woman uses the locker room at the local planet fitness I guarantee you that she is doing every thing in her power to make sure none of the other ladies in the locker room see her birth defect. Now as for school locker rooms that whole situation needs to be redone. There should be curtained off areas for every student and don't give me that crap about cost, this is why I said curtains which amount to some string and cloth not dividers. I don't think any students save for the early developed type like jocks and cheer leaders like changing in front of other people. Most kids have average kid bodies and may feel depressed about it when they see the lucky and over developed child next to them.

This is such a silly thing for people to get all stupid and angry about. Its like one of those situations where there was no problem until someone started digging for one to crusade against. For the ladies that would protest let me tell you this I am exactly the type of person you want in the stall next to you in the event that a real sexual predator enters that restroom. I would come to your aide with haste in that event and I'm athletic, bold and skilled enough to do some damage and I'm pretty quick in the first 40 just in case they try to run.

I've got your back ladies but I'd watch out for this guy though he looks shady...

What about hermaphrodites? What do they do?

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

My main fear was never a cop outside the door, it would be the lady that called them.

The ID thing, it's not really a two way street. If you get the ID before the change, technically It's illegal for you to enter your old bathroom also. This is where appearance meets diagnosis because you can't withhold their rights, but it's entirely possible for some # to call the police on you for being a creeper, when you can't legally enter the men's room anyway.


As for your comments about privacy I agree. We live a time where a straight normal person should be allowed to have private dressing space if they want also. That's not a transgender right, that's a human right. The arguements over the transgender are only putting unneeded pressure on a specific group for no reason. Boys get molested in locker rooms, there are bullies and it's embarrassing and there are health issues. It just shouldn't exist. Girls have these issues too. It's basically unacceptable it's even being ignored for transgender at all.

As for the raw discrimination that implies trans are obsessed with genitals, because they want to change their own, that's it's own unavoidable biproduct. There's basically no arguement that will let someone that wants to remove their penis, near a female, because they think you're obsessed with it (even though it's normally the opposite).

I was going to make a thread but instead decided to just post this here.

Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal said this morning he will veto House Bill 757, also known by critics as the "anti-LGBT" bill.

Opponents of the bill have argued that it discriminates against gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people.

"I do not think that we have to discriminate against anyone to protect the faith based community in Georgia of which I and my family have been a part of for all of our lives," Deal said today.

Georgia vetoes anti LBGT bill

So it would seem money talks and policy makers speak that language fluently. It would seem that unlike Georgia and South Dakota Kansas joins North Carolina in not caring about its own economy or the effect that would have on their constituents...oh wait nobody really wanted to go to Kansas anyway to begin with.

On another note my mother just told me that her and pops are considering moving to North Carolina and I said with sadness that in that case I will no longer be coming to visit them. We can Skype or whatever because I refuse to step foot or spend a single dollar in any state that seeks to treat me like a degenerate because of who I am aesthetically or who I choose to love.

I just had a light bulb moment and thought to myself that it would be absolutely hilarious and appropriate if a bunch of ka-weens all dressed up like Dorothy from Wizard of Oz and protested in the Kansas capital. They could hold up sings that say "we don't want to come back to Kansas toto". That would be awesome and for that I might go to Kansas.

originally posted by: amicktd
What about hermaphrodites? What do they do?

Umm the same trangenders do. go where they look like the most.

originally posted by: FullBloodedNative
a reply to: chuck258

You do know people can rape without a penis and rape is not about sex, it is about control. Women are also capable of raping other women as are men with other men.

What you just said was full of ignorance and irrational fear. If you're that afraid of rape, maybe stay away from other people all together.

Maybe you didn't read my post. I clearly said:

and if they don't have a penis, they can't use it to rape a female.

I realize rape doesn't require the insertion of a male penis to a female (in case of male on female rape). But my point stands. If a Trans Woman doesn't have a penis, they cant use a penis to rape a female. You can't remove all phallic objects from locker rooms (well I guess technically you could, but lets not go down that rabbit hole), that's obviously not the same thing.

Also, I don't think it is at all accurate to say that "rape is about control". I would venture to say the vast majority of rapes are because one person is sexually attracted to the other, and decides that they are going to have sex with their victim, whether they want to or not. I wouldn't call that "control", I would call that severe, reprehensible moral impairment. Yes, some animals do rape people with objects just for the hell of it, but the point I'm trying to make is that for most rapes, having and finishing sex with the victim is the ultimate end goal. Most rapists in fact have sex to finish the 'deed' no?

It concerns me what might happen to a transgendered person who goes into a men's restroom in a rough area, or somewhere like a reststop on the interstate.

Realleader, this is what education is for. It's getting you to think about these things..good for you, and glad to see you are sharing your ambivalence. Hope you can come to terms with this.

originally posted by: yuppa
I swear..... another closet case passing a law to make him look straight.

Ive got Gender dysphoria myself. And IF i ever get a chance to ill change myself to fit my true gender. I have to ask though WHo in the world goes into a bathroom looking to see another persons junk?

There such a thing as bathroom STALLS. ingenious things made to obscure you when doing your business. Girls and Transgenders BOTH can sit on the toilet to pee. And No one sees their junk.

I assume this bill is aimed at masculine men who are transgender(claimed) trying to see women. And vice versa. Still its a stupid bill.

That is exactly who this bill is aimed at.


People like this "woman" (and I'm not using the quotes insultingly or condescendingly)


When it comes down to it, I think more females are going to be severely uncomfortable, and perhaps even fearful that this person (the Trans woman in the story I've linked) was in the same locker room as them, than the Trans Woman is going to be. This is where the issue of rights gets blurry. Is it better to make a hundred woman / girls be severely uncomfortable that a quite obvious physically male person wearing a wig and women's clothes was in the same locker room or bathroom as them? What if it's late at night and the hypothetical future female is the only other person in an otherwise deserted locker room later at night? I can easily see how uncomfortable some women would get being in that situation.

originally posted by: angeldoll
It concerns me what might happen to a transgendered person who goes into a men's restroom in a rough area, or somewhere like a reststop on the interstate.

Realleader, this is what education is for. It's getting you to think about these things..good for you, and glad to see you are sharing your ambivalence. Hope you can come to terms with this.

I know and I hate that this is also an issue. I know most people may not think its this simple, but I think it honestly boils down to how many people are going to be adversely affected by the presence of a Trans person in the same restroom as they. The hypothetical one Trans person, or the perhaps dozens they might terrify over the years. If you go by numbers, you have to go with inconveniencing the Trans person.

The only other way I think would be to impede on the rights of Trans folks, in how they dress, and how they must present themselves to the public while in a communal private area (locker rooms, restrooms, etc.)

The best way would be to force Trans women and Trans men to look (physically, but also in some cases dress) almost indistinguishably like the gender they identify with. In the planet fitness case I linked, excuse the expression, but that "woman" is in no way passable as a woman. Her build and face are far to masculine. I'm also assuming she still has her male equipment intact. I mean, if they were passable as the gender they ID with (like the picture that was linked on the previous page of the Trans Man with facial hair and a trucker cap on) - He doesn't belong in the female's bathroom. And I think in the case of Trans Men, the issue is much less controversial. Trans men are in a restroom with other men and in a worst case scenario, "real" men stand a much better chance of fighting off a Trans man than a "real" woman has of fighting off a Trans Woman (especially one with their male genitalia). It's biology plain and simple, biological human males are, as a rule, stronger than women pound for pound. I know that's not always the case and their are exceptions like I probably couldn't stand toe to toe with Rhonda Rousey. But if you put me at 180 lbs up against a female at 180 lbs, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine I would end up on top. That is what I'm talking about.

Either way, if this were to be imposed, it would force societal and legal pressures 'unfairly' on Trans folks.

"Ok, Trans Women, you can use the females restroom, but you must be pretty much completely indistinguishable from a woman, you can't dress in mens clothes, and make sure you get that voice pitch high enough"

Unless that would be something Trans folk would be willing to do, I forsee their always being conflict on this.

if theyre going to ban trans students, then they should also go after all the natural mutations in the animal kingdom to, i mean does a deer want to go watch a 3 legged frog pee in the wild? or all the lifeforms that switch sexes, or androgenous lifeforms that dont need sex to give birth, what about all that? these narrow minded people sicken me.

a reply to: chuck258

Good points. The only thing I can think of is having three restrooms. One for 'trans", but then there might be a stigma (for a while) of being seen coming and going from it. It invades privacy.

From what Europeans say, they all use one restroom anyway, and nobody cares. I don't think the U.S. is ready for that yet.

originally posted by: chuck258

The only other way I think would be to impede on the rights of Trans folks, in how they dress, and how they must present themselves to the public while in a communal private area (locker rooms, restrooms, etc.)

The best way would be to force Trans women and Trans men to look (physically, but also in some cases dress) almost indistinguishably like the gender they identify with. In the planet fitness case I linked, excuse the expression, but that "woman" is in no way passable as a woman. Her build and face are far to masculine. I'm also assuming she still has her male equipment intact.

Unbelievable even as conjecture. And you simply can't seem to stop worrying about other people's genitals.

I mean, if they were passable as the gender they ID with (like the picture that was linked on the previous page of the Trans Man with facial hair and a trucker cap on) - He doesn't belong in the female's bathroom. And I think in the case of Trans Men, the issue is much less controversial. Trans men are in a restroom with other men and in a worst case scenario, "real" men stand a much better chance of fighting off a Trans man than a "real" woman has of fighting off a Trans Woman (especially one with their male genitalia). It's biology plain and simple, biological human males are, as a rule, stronger than women pound for pound. I know that's not always the case and their are exceptions like I probably couldn't stand toe to toe with Rhonda Rousey. But if you put me at 180 lbs up against a female at 180 lbs, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine I would end up on top. That is what I'm talking about.

You seem like a very insecure person with unreasonable fears and fantasies of fighting people in a bathroom. I seldom use this word and try my best to not but you are simply transphobic. Better watch out! All those killer trans girls I posted pictures of are going to grow up and come to terrorize a bathroom near you.

You also fail to understand these laws that base bathroom usage on your biological sex at birth, not what genitals you have even if a person has gone under sex reassignment surgery. In spite of your comfort with trans guys in your bathroom, they would be required to use the bathroom with your wife and daughter.

I'm also not quite sure how well your 180 lbs would do in a fantasy battle scenario with these guys. You wouldn't have to worry, they'd be in the ladies room.



(If only I was younger!)

"Ok, Trans Women, you can use the females restroom, but you must be pretty much completely indistinguishable from a woman, you can't dress in mens clothes, and make sure you get that voice pitch high enough"

Unless that would be something Trans folk would be willing to do, I forsee their always being conflict on this.

This is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read here and I thought I had heard it all.

Whew! I need a drink. or five.

a reply to: Freija

Granted that's too far, his point has some validity. The issue is the woman reporting you might not confront you about if you're really even female. They could just call the police without even talking to you. There are enough reasons in what he said that gives it validity, even if it's ignorant. And he even acknowledges his uncomfortability generally saying that. But it's true. Without hurting anyone's feelings, there should potentially be some effort by the transgender person to look like the gender of the bathroom they use. Or at least not purposefully looking the opposite...

It makes me uncomfortable to admit I am still using both, but I'm not going into the men's room wearing pink, and I'm not going to go into the women's room with a full beard. Does this mean I need my own bathroom? Not really. But I can understand why maybe a straight person wouldn't want to share one with me.

The problem is it SHOULD BE up to the straight people but they have no voice because they aren't the minority of special snowflakes. I really doubt trans will feel discriminated against when the entire nation contracts third bathrooms for their own personal use. The question is if that is necessary? It's not really up to us anyway.

originally posted by: imjack
Without hurting anyone's feelings, there should potentially be some effort by the transgender person to look like the gender of the bathroom they use. Or at least not purposefully looking the opposite...

I get Chuck258's point and acknowledge his discomfort in saying the things he did but hearing nearly the same thing from you, a person of gender fluidity that presents as both a guy and a girl to suggest some minimum standard of passability is pretty harsh to your other transgender buddies that may not have the same privilege as you or meet your standards of beauty and femininity. It almost seems like you've drank the Kool-Aid of the predatory transgender woman or the man dressing up as a woman to do bad things in a bathroom? Oh the horror!

You may also want to brush up on the state-to-state laws where a transgender person can get proper documentation with the preferred gender marker and what the requirements are. Identity Document Laws and Policies by State

Another problem with these type of laws is the ambiguous way some of them are worded. Some say things like use the bathroom of your biological sex at birth and some say use the bathroom that matches your birth certificate. This is problematic as 9 states do not require proof of SRS to change a birth certificate or if you are a trans woman that has had SRS but doesn't have a corrected birth certificate, you're still going to potentially have women with boy bits using the ladies room and ladies with girl bits in the men's room.

You will have to screen everyone because if you base who gets to use what bathroom on your subjective opinion of someone's appearance, that is flat out discriminatory. You're either going to have to show your papers to pee, which might not actually reflect your privates or have somebody do a genital check before you can use the bathroom and even that isn't good enough without the right paperwork.

Let's just try this instead:


There have been more senators arrested in bathrooms for sexual misconduct than there has been transgender people. Keep in mind that no rise in incidents from the imaginary transgender predator or imposter has been reported in 255 cities and 17 states that allow a transgender person to use the bathroom that matches their gender identity.

Now, if I'm the mom or dad of a 17 year old transgender daughter like some of the cute girls in the pics I posted and we're all out together at a ball game or at the movies or something, there's no way in holy hell is she going to use the men's room. It would have to be over my dead body.

By the same token, if I'm in the ladies room and some buff bearded guy walks in do I have to figure out if it's just a transgender man using the bathroom required by law because he hasn't had bottom surgery as many don't or if it is natal man invading my private space? This gives me a lot more concern than seeing someone I'm not quite sure is female. Might that also make me a little uncomfortable? Maybe but my discomfort does not trump the rights for a transgender person to use the bathroom where they are comfortable and feel the most safe.


I would imagine when signs like this went away, it made a few people uncomfortable too:


At any rate, lewd or sexual behavior is against the law period. These bathroom laws are discrimination and bigotry and nothing but trumped up fear mongering aimed directly at transgender people trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

As far the government wanting to put out a $2,500 bounty for turning in a fellow student that uses the bathroom matching who they are as people, all I can do is shake my head and wonder what effing country we live in. Not including the bounty part, North Carolina has now made this bathroom crap and anti-LGBT discrimination the law.

The problem is it SHOULD BE up to the straight people but they have no voice because they aren't the minority of special snowflakes.

Okay that's it. Your bathroom privileges are rescinded.

At any rate, live in North Carolina and want this sign in your window? Go right ahead, it's legal. Disregarding the bathroom nonsense that is a part of this, do you think this is right?

Grils toilets have separate cubicles !
so whats the problem?
just make it so you can look under or over.

OMG you could have a lesbian in the next cubicles!!!

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: chuck258

Good points. The only thing I can think of is having three restrooms. One for 'trans", but then there might be a stigma (for a while) of being seen coming and going from it. It invades privacy.

From what Europeans say, they all use one restroom anyway, and nobody cares. I don't think the U.S. is ready for that yet.

Yes we do. But only when there are single toilet. If there are more than one toilet, then it wont be unisex.
What I mean by that is a lockable door in to the toilet, I am not talking about stalls. If there are stalls and or pissoars (not sure if that is spelled correctly), then they are never unisex.

At least not in my country. It may be different in other European countries.

a reply to: Freija

I suppose the state to state laws differ. I wasn't aware it was so much. Here in Colorado people are very accepting, the requirement is 1 year therapy and a signature from a therapist for a sexual ID change. No SRS required. You take the document to the DMV and they change the M to a F, that's it.

As for my personal gender fluidity, I think it's safe to say trans people aren't often satsfied. My point is though not giving someone reason to question you is a good start. Yes ignorant people will start with questions right away, but a more clever person might not be so confused why a boy is in the girls room with a dress. My point is don't make it any harder and take off the dress...also the dress is a metaphor...I've used the female restroom in a t-shirt and jeans, but the confidence the women have when they see my eye liner alone I've noticed is substantial. Attempting to belong is a huge part of it. That's why you don't shave your face in the female restroom. Other females don't do that and it feels like intruding.

The only Grey area at all is when I feel too masculine to use the female restroom. Technically you're not supposed to use both so it feels odd that I'm able to use the men's room without question, and I'm able to use the women's room with little question, but just incase it's easy to get the law on my side.

I feel like this is the establishment giving me all the power over something it's not comfortable with, and it makes me uncomfortable to be at the center of the controversy. So I just mind my Ps and Qs and try to diligently match the look of the bathroom I enter. To be completely honest I've never had issue in the public female restroom and only looking feminine in the men's room has even been problematic, and even then just resulting in embarrassement, not trouble.

a reply to: ReadLeader

Do You realize that transgendered people are one of the number # 1 groups that commit suicide? The reason they end up committing suicide is because all the sickos tell them they will be happy when they finally get that evil penis chopped off and get a vagina. The reality is after the surgery they realize they screwed up and can't undo what they've done so they kill themselves due to depression. I'm pretty sure some of the depression is caused by society but getting Your penis chopped off is probably the major factor.

a reply to: jkm1864

Reply redacted. This kind of crap isn't even worthy of a response.

originally posted by: jkm1864
a reply to: ReadLeader

Do You realize that transgendered people are one of the number # 1 groups that commit suicide? The reason they end up committing suicide is because all the sickos tell them they will be happy when they finally get that evil penis chopped off and get a vagina. The reality is after the surgery they realize they screwed up and can't undo what they've done so they kill themselves due to depression. I'm pretty sure some of the depression is caused by society but getting Your penis chopped off is probably the major factor.

Excuse me but let me interject here. No depression usually sets in due to their "loved ones" abandoning them and or outright abusing them for what they are for one. Then you have society who thinks anything not their version of normal is wrong as well. Finding a job while TG is another reason due to bias and another factor.

And seriously? Oh im gonna kill myself cause i miss captain winky? You do know alot and i mena ALOT keep their penises. So your assumption(remember when you ASSUME you make a ASSume out of me and you)that they commit suicide for something so trivial is just wrong.