Breaking the sabbath: Justice of Yahweh

a reply to: newnature1

Yahweh's righteousness is the key to all this.

Funny... i've always heard of this gods righteousness....

yet i've never found any indication of it...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: newnature1

Yahweh's righteousness is the key to all this.

Funny... i've always heard of this gods righteousness....

yet i've never found any indication of it...

Satan and his clan are working through ministers of righteousness to keep this news hidden from people. They do it by keeping that issue of sins on the table of God’s justice, clearly that issue of sins was resolved. Justification, not through our behavior and our performance, but this gift decree from God comes by faith, not by our works, not by our efforts. God can look at the sinning person who believes and call that sinning person a saint is the message.

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Heresiarch
Numbers 15:32-36

While the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, a man was caught gathering wood on the sabbath day.· Those who caught him gathering wood brought him before Moses, Aaron had the whole community. · He was kept in custody, because the penalty he should undergo had not yet been fixed. · Yahweh said to Moses " This man must be put to death. The whole community must stone him outside the camp" · The whole community took him outside the camp and stoned him, until he was dead, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.

With a barbarian for a god who needs a devil? Apparently, the god of Israel doesn't mess around when it comes to his holy day of rest. Not only did he demand the death of a man but he made the whole camp implicit, so everyone had blood on their hands. And they didn't seem to resist and in fact, sought his guidance because the god of Israel has nothing better to do than sanction a Saturday execution, which is apparently not a violation of the sabbath as long as it's outside the camp. But collecting wood to burn is. And this is the god people CHOOSE to follow. I guess they are scared by stories like this so this kiss his rear. Not I. The Gnostics called him the demiurge. That isn't harsh enough. I call him the Scourge. Yahweh is a total scumbag which is why Israel never had a devil until way later when they decided to adopt new tradition. For most of its existence there was, and still really isn't in the Old Testament a Christian version of Satan. It is only in Job where the character is given any prominence and he is under Yahweh's control, not opposed to him and not his enemy at all. The Satan even needs permission to act. Yahweh is responsible for good and evil in the Old Testament. And he is usually being evil.

What is a trip about this is, Yahweh was on the earth with these people. Yahweh’s presence was in this kavod, that fire and cloud thing. These people said that they would do that law contract, Yahweh said then I will dwell among you. One did play around with a God that is right in your camp, would you? Yahweh's righteousness is the key to all this.

Even the most vicious of Roman Caesars or any earthly ruler should and probably would not be such a * as to concern him/herself with such trivialities as the dos and don'ts of wood gathering.

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: newnature1

Yahweh's righteousness is the key to all this.

Funny... i've always heard of this gods righteousness....

yet i've never found any indication of it...

Satan and his clan are working through ministers of righteousness to keep this news hidden from people. They do it by keeping that issue of sins on the table of God’s justice, clearly that issue of sins was resolved. Justification, not through our behavior and our performance, but this gift decree from God comes by faith, not by our works, not by our efforts. God can look at the sinning person who believes and call that sinning person a saint is the message.

Thats a whole stack of Paulian theology...

Jesus didn't teach faith alone my friend...

Look into it...

a reply to: newnature1

Really? No effort whatsoever and your just forgiven? What a radical departure from reality you have taken. Even the New Testament says " Faith without works is DEAD." As in doesn't exist, a cadaver. That type of thinking belongs in the same sarcophagus as the Old Testament.

originally posted by: Heresiarch
a reply to: newnature1

Really? No effort whatsoever and your just forgiven? What a radical departure from reality you have taken. Even the New Testament says " Faith without works is DEAD." As in doesn't exist, a cadaver. That type of thinking belongs in the same sarcophagus as the Old Testament.

Not so, you are mixing programs. Here is why, this is the age of grace. Reconciliation simply means a change in status, and it is a major issue recognizing reconciliation. Reconciliation from God’s advantage point is an accomplished fact, and God is reconciled where the totality of the sin debt of all the human race is concerned.

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Heresiarch
a reply to: newnature1

Really? No effort whatsoever and your just forgiven? What a radical departure from reality you have taken. Even the New Testament says " Faith without works is DEAD." As in doesn't exist, a cadaver. That type of thinking belongs in the same sarcophagus as the Old Testament.

Not so, you are mixing programs. Here is why, this is the age of grace. Reconciliation simply means a change in status, and it is a major issue recognizing reconciliation. Reconciliation from God’s advantage point is an accomplished fact, and God is reconciled where the totality of the sin debt of all the human race is concerned.

Is the book of James a part of the New Testament?

Can you provide me with scripture that says we are not bound by the New Testament? Or you, I should say.

Jesus never came to usher in this age of grace you speak of. He actually never uses those words and it is not what he taught.

This age of grace is in your mind only. You can pick and choose the parts of the New Testament you like and follow it. But the age of grace is not a teaching of Christ.

a reply to: newnature1

If you aren't going to follow the teachings in the book of James, which is towards the end of the New Testament and should be considered as relevant as the book of Revelation or Matthew regardless, you should remove it from the canon of the New Testament.

I didn't know that there was an Old New Testament and a New New Testament. That is a new one.

originally posted by: Heresiarch

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Heresiarch
Numbers 15:32-36

While the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, a man was caught gathering wood on the sabbath day.· Those who caught him gathering wood brought him before Moses, Aaron had the whole community. · He was kept in custody, because the penalty he should undergo had not yet been fixed. · Yahweh said to Moses " This man must be put to death. The whole community must stone him outside the camp" · The whole community took him outside the camp and stoned him, until he was dead, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.

With a barbarian for a god who needs a devil? Apparently, the god of Israel doesn't mess around when it comes to his holy day of rest. Not only did he demand the death of a man but he made the whole camp implicit, so everyone had blood on their hands. And they didn't seem to resist and in fact, sought his guidance because the god of Israel has nothing better to do than sanction a Saturday execution, which is apparently not a violation of the sabbath as long as it's outside the camp. But collecting wood to burn is. And this is the god people CHOOSE to follow. I guess they are scared by stories like this so this kiss his rear. Not I. The Gnostics called him the demiurge. That isn't harsh enough. I call him the Scourge. Yahweh is a total scumbag which is why Israel never had a devil until way later when they decided to adopt new tradition. For most of its existence there was, and still really isn't in the Old Testament a Christian version of Satan. It is only in Job where the character is given any prominence and he is under Yahweh's control, not opposed to him and not his enemy at all. The Satan even needs permission to act. Yahweh is responsible for good and evil in the Old Testament. And he is usually being evil.

What is a trip about this is, Yahweh was on the earth with these people. Yahweh’s presence was in this kavod, that fire and cloud thing. These people said that they would do that law contract, Yahweh said then I will dwell among you. One did play around with a God that is right in your camp, would you? Yahweh's righteousness is the key to all this.

Even the most vicious of Roman Caesars or any earthly ruler should and probably would not be such a * as to concern him/herself with such trivialities as the dos and don'ts of wood gathering.

Caesars were Gentiles. The Israelites agree to do that law contract, not the Gentiles.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: newnature1

Yahweh's righteousness is the key to all this.

Funny... i've always heard of this gods righteousness....

yet i've never found any indication of it...

Satan and his clan are working through ministers of righteousness to keep this news hidden from people. They do it by keeping that issue of sins on the table of God’s justice, clearly that issue of sins was resolved. Justification, not through our behavior and our performance, but this gift decree from God comes by faith, not by our works, not by our efforts. God can look at the sinning person who believes and call that sinning person a saint is the message.

Thats a whole stack of Paulian theology...

Jesus didn't teach faith alone my friend...

Look into it...

It was Christ’s faith and as a result of his faith, his faithfulness that he sacrificed himself and purchased the gift of our salvation. It is our faith in the accomplishment of Christ's faithful sacrifice that is the means whereby God acknowledges that we have accepted the gift his son purchased. 


Therefore, God is his infinite wisdom devised a plan whereby he could take the very faith belonging to his son along with its resultant faithfulness and credit that faith and faithfulness to the account of those who believe. Ministers of righteousness still believe that sin is the issue; almost 2000 years after God took care of it! In their mind, God is waiting for man to make a decision, so God can forgive them of their sins.

originally posted by: Heresiarch

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Heresiarch
a reply to: newnature1

Really? No effort whatsoever and your just forgiven? What a radical departure from reality you have taken. Even the New Testament says " Faith without works is DEAD." As in doesn't exist, a cadaver. That type of thinking belongs in the same sarcophagus as the Old Testament.

Not so, you are mixing programs. Here is why, this is the age of grace. Reconciliation simply means a change in status, and it is a major issue recognizing reconciliation. Reconciliation from God’s advantage point is an accomplished fact, and God is reconciled where the totality of the sin debt of all the human race is concerned.

Is the book of James a part of the New Testament?

Can you provide me with scripture that says we are not bound by the New Testament? Or you, I should say.

Jesus never came to usher in this age of grace you speak of. He actually never uses those words and it is not what he taught.

This age of grace is in your mind only. You can pick and choose the parts of the New Testament you like and follow it. But the age of grace is not a teaching of Christ.

James is not for you, this is the age of grace.

originally posted by: Heresiarch
a reply to: newnature1

If you aren't going to follow the teachings in the book of James, which is towards the end of the New Testament and should be considered as relevant as the book of Revelation or Matthew regardless, you should remove it from the canon of the New Testament.

I didn't know that there was an Old New Testament and a New New Testament. That is a new one.

Why remove it, if it isn't what Paul wrote, it's not for you.

a reply to: newnature1

No actually, if it is what Paul wrote or not it is part of the New Testament. You either honor the New Testament or you don't but you don't include it if you aren't going to follow it unless you are a straight hypocrite.

Personally I don't count the writings of Paul as scripture at all. But if I did I still wouldn't negate the rest of the New Testament in favor of a second rate pseudo-apostle, self appointed at that.

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: newnature1

Yahweh's righteousness is the key to all this.

Funny... i've always heard of this gods righteousness....

yet i've never found any indication of it...

Satan and his clan are working through ministers of righteousness to keep this news hidden from people. They do it by keeping that issue of sins on the table of God’s justice, clearly that issue of sins was resolved. Justification, not through our behavior and our performance, but this gift decree from God comes by faith, not by our works, not by our efforts. God can look at the sinning person who believes and call that sinning person a saint is the message.

Thats a whole stack of Paulian theology...

Jesus didn't teach faith alone my friend...

Look into it...

It was Christ’s faith and as a result of his faith, his faithfulness that he sacrificed himself and purchased the gift of our salvation. It is our faith in the accomplishment of Christ's faithful sacrifice that is the means whereby God acknowledges that we have accepted the gift his son purchased. 


Therefore, God is his infinite wisdom devised a plan whereby he could take the very faith belonging to his son along with its resultant faithfulness and credit that faith and faithfulness to the account of those who believe. Ministers of righteousness still believe that sin is the issue; almost 2000 years after God took care of it! In their mind, God is waiting for man to make a decision, so God can forgive them of their sins.

Same answer as the last reply...

A whole stack of Paulian Theology which Jesus didn't teach... or preach

Find a single passage in the gospels where Jesus "purchased" anything... or speaks of some "sin debt" nonsense

a reply to: newnature1

And again, can you tell me at what point in scripture Jesus teaches about this age of grace?

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Heresiarch

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Heresiarch
Numbers 15:32-36

While the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, a man was caught gathering wood on the sabbath day.· Those who caught him gathering wood brought him before Moses, Aaron had the whole community. · He was kept in custody, because the penalty he should undergo had not yet been fixed. · Yahweh said to Moses " This man must be put to death. The whole community must stone him outside the camp" · The whole community took him outside the camp and stoned him, until he was dead, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.

With a barbarian for a god who needs a devil? Apparently, the god of Israel doesn't mess around when it comes to his holy day of rest. Not only did he demand the death of a man but he made the whole camp implicit, so everyone had blood on their hands. And they didn't seem to resist and in fact, sought his guidance because the god of Israel has nothing better to do than sanction a Saturday execution, which is apparently not a violation of the sabbath as long as it's outside the camp. But collecting wood to burn is. And this is the god people CHOOSE to follow. I guess they are scared by stories like this so this kiss his rear. Not I. The Gnostics called him the demiurge. That isn't harsh enough. I call him the Scourge. Yahweh is a total scumbag which is why Israel never had a devil until way later when they decided to adopt new tradition. For most of its existence there was, and still really isn't in the Old Testament a Christian version of Satan. It is only in Job where the character is given any prominence and he is under Yahweh's control, not opposed to him and not his enemy at all. The Satan even needs permission to act. Yahweh is responsible for good and evil in the Old Testament. And he is usually being evil.

What is a trip about this is, Yahweh was on the earth with these people. Yahweh’s presence was in this kavod, that fire and cloud thing. These people said that they would do that law contract, Yahweh said then I will dwell among you. One did play around with a God that is right in your camp, would you? Yahweh's righteousness is the key to all this.

Even the most vicious of Roman Caesars or any earthly ruler should and probably would not be such a * as to concern him/herself with such trivialities as the dos and don'ts of wood gathering.

Caesars were Gentiles. The Israelites agree to do that law contract, not the Gentiles.

You are familiar with the concept of a metaphor, no?

Were I speaking about issues of Jew vs Gentile I would have just said so. I am talking about even the most evil of men being surpassed in sheer evil by the god of Israel. And Israel being all too willing to comply.

originally posted by: Heresiarch
a reply to: newnature1

No actually, if it is what Paul wrote or not it is part of the New Testament. You either honor the New Testament or you don't but you don't include it if you aren't going to follow it unless you are a straight hypocrite.

Personally I don't count the writings of Paul as scripture at all. But if I did I still wouldn't negate the rest of the New Testament in favor of a second rate pseudo-apostle, self appointed at that.

Matt. 12:36 - The meaning of ‘idle word’ is careless or useless sayings. Starting in Matt. 12:22, their was a Pharisee who was guilty of everything in the context of that story. Paul is who that Pharisee was and Paul was not only first in line, when it came to dispensing the grace of God, Paul was also foremost in crime when it came to murdering the saints of Israel’s earthly kingdom program. 


If Paul was at Pentecost, would Paul himself, if he took part in stoning Stephen for believing the message given at Pentecost, would he have been a blasphemer at Pentecost? In Paul’s pre-grace zealousness, he would have been a foremost rejecter of any notion whatsoever that Jesus was Israel’s messiah or that Jesus had been risen from among the dead. 


First in line, first in crime are apt descriptions for the Apostle of Grace. Paul was the chosen spokesman for God to relay the information for this entire dispensation of grace. God is not dealing with Israel nationally today, he is dealing with all alike in the Age of Grace. The apostle Paul dispensed a message that the 12 apostles had not dispensed, and that message was different, and that message was geared to the Gentiles. 


Paul is the chief pattern of God’s grace to all, he is the foremost example. We need to understand that even though Paul was saved, Paul still considered himself to be a sinner. Paul understood the word: Sin. And Paul understood that word meant to come short of the righteousness belonging to God himself. Paul is the foremost example of the impossibility, the total impossibility of gaining righteousness before God through the performance of the flesh. Those who are sealed in Christ, our careless or useless sayings and words are a Judgment Seat of Christ issue.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: newnature1

Yahweh's righteousness is the key to all this.

Funny... i've always heard of this gods righteousness....

yet i've never found any indication of it...

Satan and his clan are working through ministers of righteousness to keep this news hidden from people. They do it by keeping that issue of sins on the table of God’s justice, clearly that issue of sins was resolved. Justification, not through our behavior and our performance, but this gift decree from God comes by faith, not by our works, not by our efforts. God can look at the sinning person who believes and call that sinning person a saint is the message.

Thats a whole stack of Paulian theology...

Jesus didn't teach faith alone my friend...

Look into it...

It was Christ’s faith and as a result of his faith, his faithfulness that he sacrificed himself and purchased the gift of our salvation. It is our faith in the accomplishment of Christ's faithful sacrifice that is the means whereby God acknowledges that we have accepted the gift his son purchased. 


Therefore, God is his infinite wisdom devised a plan whereby he could take the very faith belonging to his son along with its resultant faithfulness and credit that faith and faithfulness to the account of those who believe. Ministers of righteousness still believe that sin is the issue; almost 2000 years after God took care of it! In their mind, God is waiting for man to make a decision, so God can forgive them of their sins.

Same answer as the last reply...

A whole stack of Paulian Theology which Jesus didn't teach... or preach

Find a single passage in the gospels where Jesus "purchased" anything... or speaks of some "sin debt" nonsense

Read the book of Romans. Don't chapter and versus it, read the book of Romans.

originally posted by: Heresiarch

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Heresiarch

originally posted by: newnature1

originally posted by: Heresiarch
Numbers 15:32-36

While the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, a man was caught gathering wood on the sabbath day.· Those who caught him gathering wood brought him before Moses, Aaron had the whole community. · He was kept in custody, because the penalty he should undergo had not yet been fixed. · Yahweh said to Moses " This man must be put to death. The whole community must stone him outside the camp" · The whole community took him outside the camp and stoned him, until he was dead, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.

With a barbarian for a god who needs a devil? Apparently, the god of Israel doesn't mess around when it comes to his holy day of rest. Not only did he demand the death of a man but he made the whole camp implicit, so everyone had blood on their hands. And they didn't seem to resist and in fact, sought his guidance because the god of Israel has nothing better to do than sanction a Saturday execution, which is apparently not a violation of the sabbath as long as it's outside the camp. But collecting wood to burn is. And this is the god people CHOOSE to follow. I guess they are scared by stories like this so this kiss his rear. Not I. The Gnostics called him the demiurge. That isn't harsh enough. I call him the Scourge. Yahweh is a total scumbag which is why Israel never had a devil until way later when they decided to adopt new tradition. For most of its existence there was, and still really isn't in the Old Testament a Christian version of Satan. It is only in Job where the character is given any prominence and he is under Yahweh's control, not opposed to him and not his enemy at all. The Satan even needs permission to act. Yahweh is responsible for good and evil in the Old Testament. And he is usually being evil.

What is a trip about this is, Yahweh was on the earth with these people. Yahweh’s presence was in this kavod, that fire and cloud thing. These people said that they would do that law contract, Yahweh said then I will dwell among you. One did play around with a God that is right in your camp, would you? Yahweh's righteousness is the key to all this.

Even the most vicious of Roman Caesars or any earthly ruler should and probably would not be such a * as to concern him/herself with such trivialities as the dos and don'ts of wood gathering.

Caesars were Gentiles. The Israelites agree to do that law contract, not the Gentiles.

You are familiar with the concept of a metaphor, no?

Were I speaking about issues of Jew vs Gentile I would have just said so. I am talking about even the most evil of men being surpassed in sheer evil by the god of Israel. And Israel being all too willing to comply.

The Gentiles were never promised a particular territory upon earth as an everlasting possession, only Israel had been given that promise, they were promised a messiah. The gentiles were never promised a messiah. So what if you happened to be a Gentile living during the time when Israel had been promised a land and an earthly kingdom in that land and a king to rule in that land? Yahweh made provision for the Gentiles of time past by allowing them to convert to the tribe of Israel. 


In order to be identified with the people of Yahweh, with Yahweh’s nation which was Israel, a Gentile would have to identify himself with the covenant under which Yahweh was operating with Israel. It was called taking hold of the covenant. A Gentile, by taking hold of the covenant was saying that he was willingly placing himself under all of Israel’s covenant requirements. It would include taking hold of all of the law requirements after the law was handed down to the nation Israel. 


One of the commandments given to Israel even before the Law of Moses was handed down at Mt. Sinai, was the commandment of circumcision, which was the physical sign of the covenant Yahweh made with Abraham. That requirement remained firmly set in place, when it came to a Gentile who wanted to become an Israelite. Circumcision was the physical sign of being in relationship to the covenant Yahweh made with Abram and that physical distinction separated Israel from all the other nations of the earth. In order to become an Israelite, a person had to be obedient to the requirement of physical circumcision or be married to a man who was willing to fulfill that requirement.

a reply to: newnature1

The Gentiles were not promised any land in Israel? Neither were the Israelites. Unless you can prove that Yahweh actually exists. I don't think you can do that.

Regardless, Yahweh behaves like a crazed dictator who's soldiers would murder if they could. But since they can't, they have no choice but to obey.

Doesn't sound like much of a god if you ask me. Definitely not something I would worship unless you were literally pointing a gun at my head. I am no martyr, I am glad I don't have to decide between death and obedience.