Breaking the sabbath: Justice of Yahweh

Numbers 15:32-36

While the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, a man was caught gathering wood on the sabbath day.· Those who caught him gathering wood brought him before Moses, Aaron had the whole community. · He was kept in custody, because the penalty he should undergo had not yet been fixed. · Yahweh said to Moses " This man must be put to death. The whole community must stone him outside the camp" · The whole community took him outside the camp and stoned him, until he was dead, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.

With a barbarian for a god who needs a devil? Apparently, the god of Israel doesn't mess around when it comes to his holy day of rest. Not only did he demand the death of a man but he made the whole camp implicit, so everyone had blood on their hands. And they didn't seem to resist and in fact, sought his guidance because the god of Israel has nothing better to do than sanction a Saturday execution, which is apparently not a violation of the sabbath as long as it's outside the camp. But collecting wood to burn is. And this is the god people CHOOSE to follow. I guess they are scared by stories like this so this kiss his rear. Not I. The Gnostics called him the demiurge. That isn't harsh enough. I call him the Scourge. Yahweh is a total scumbag which is why Israel never had a devil until way later when they decided to adopt new tradition. For most of its existence there was, and still really isn't in the Old Testament a Christian version of Satan. It is only in Job where the character is given any prominence and he is under Yahweh's control, not opposed to him and not his enemy at all. The Satan even needs permission to act. Yahweh is responsible for good and evil in the Old Testament. And he is usually being evil.

a reply to: Heresiarch

Dont know where you are going?

What is the point of this gibberish?

What kind of responses do you expect to get for this incoherent and pointless post?

I've always said that God was going to church on Saturday and wondering where everyone was. It often confused me too. Why don't these Sunday Christians know that the Sabbath is from the evening Friday until the evening Saturday? Seems that sometime back one of the Popes changed the times and the flock thought it was OK. Some denominations didn't fall for that one at least.

Good thing Christ isn't too big on the Sabbath day observance like his old man is. I guess he wasn't too worried about eating pork or having your foreskin loped off either. The New Testament is more to my taste at any rate.

a reply to: Heresiarch

So you follow the "way of Jesus" yet you fail to realize the He clamed to be YHWH.

"Before Abraham I AM."

a reply to: Heresiarch

By the sounds of it you really do have it in for Christians. I see people like you always making posts ragging on Christians and their beliefs, what harm does it do to you what god people choose to follow....thats right, nothing. If u dont like the bibles version of god then so be it, no need to push your hatred on to others.

I used to be a Christian but i chose to turn my back on the teachings of the bible because what i had learned went against everything i beleive god to truly be. The old testament in my views is almost a completely different god to the new in terms of peronality, and christians believe in the god of christ and the god he taught.

But whatever i beleive i dont push it on others and you dont see me making posts expressing my vehement anger of anothers religious beliefs. Seriously why are you even bringing this up? Im sure their is dozens of posts on here of people picking faults in the bible, in fact id go as far as to say more posts are made about finding faults in the bible than any other religion on ATS.

a reply to: ParanoidCovKid

By the sounds of it you really do have it in for Christians.

So. Christianity has had it in for everyone else outside its cult for 2000 years.

I see people like you always making posts ragging on Christians and their beliefs, what harm does it do to you what god people choose to follow....thats right, nothing.

You mean like Christianity has been ragging on everyone else for the aforementioned 2000 years? It wouldn't do any harm if its adherents would keep it to themselves, but they don't. They want everyone in the world assimilated into their cult, and they're willing to go to great lengths to achieve it.

I used to be a Christian but i chose to turn my back on the teachings of the bible because what i had learned went against everything i beleive god to truly be. The old testament in my views is almost a completely different god to the new in terms of peronality, and christians believe in the god of christ and the god he taught.

Good for you. Now you're a godless heathen and bound for eternal damnation, like the rest of us who refuse to be assimilated.

But whatever i beleive i dont push it on others and you dont see me making posts expressing my vehement anger of anothers religious beliefs.

Unfortunately, those you are defending don't feel the same way. They don't mind pushing it on you at all. They'll do it through government when and if they can, like they've been doing for centuries.

Seriously why are you even bringing this up? Im sure their is dozens of posts on here of people picking faults in the bible

Because it needs to be brought up. It needs to be challenged. It needs to have its faults exposed. That's how we learn not to believe something just because everyone else does. It's called critical thinking and research.

a reply to: angus1745

Didn't see any gibberish in the OP at all... You speak english right?

The OPer seems to be a gnostic, and as such... his OP makes perfect sense

Perhaps you just look at it as gibberish because it offends you and maybe your religion?

a reply to: Klassified

I dont see any critical thinking in pointing out the many contradictions and differences in the bible, anyone with half a brain can pick these faults out if they chose to do so. Your pointing things out to christians they already know, it still doesn't change their belief or faith. Maybe some it does, like myself but it hasn't stopped me believing in god. Its just changed my religion you could say, because i dont follow any religion, i have no book to look to or rules to follow. I treat people how i want to be treated, and pray to god. I dont go to church or do anything other than prayer. Im personally not causing anyone any harm.

The Christians ive met in my life haven't caused me any harm, in fact they have been quite nice. But so has muslims, so has Buddhists, so have Mormons. To judge an entire religious sect because of the actions of what people have done in the past is ludicrous. Many atheists in the world of the past have killed millions, why dont you bring their names up and pick faults in their actions and beliefs?

To judge a whole sect of Christians as one and the same is foolish. Each person is their own individual and can make their own decisions.

I see many atheists and not just on this site spreading hate for religious people and their beliefs. The question i ask which none of you have answered is what harm have christians personally in your own life done to you for you to have this passion and fire to publicly belittle them and their beleifs?? I just see it as a complete waste of energy, time and unnecessary stress to yourselves to be like that, but thats just my personal view, your entitled to yours.

a reply to: Heresiarch

Do Jewish Banks not accrue interest on the Sabbath - ? Why do Jewish banks get a free pass?
Why hasn't Yahweh's lightning "rent asunder" the den of thieves? I mean Jesus showed his dad the example 2000 years ago...
I guess Jehovah is pretty inconsistent and his word "forever unchanging yea unto untold generations, for I am a jealous god" and all that

Yahweh is responsible for good and evil in the Old Testament. And he is usually being evil.

But not only back then but still around feeding off the blood lust of every war and violent act on this planet...

Let's see
God had a covenant with man through Moses
Then God has a new covenant with man through Jesus

One God, two covenants, the old one based on the law, the new covenant based on grace, Christs salvation

I am never surprised by the ignorance shown by Gnostics and unbelievers

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

You don't have to read but one more chapter and Yahweh is at it again, opening up the ground and swallowing those who would complain about the leadership of Moses and Aaron and sending a fire from heaven to consume the rest. One chapter.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Let's see
God had a covenant with man through Moses
Then God has a new covenant with man through Jesus

One God, two covenants, the old one based on the law, the new covenant based on grace, Christs salvation

I am never surprised by the ignorance shown by Gnostics and unbelievers

"Ignorance shown by Gnostics and unbelievers."

So Gnostics are believers, you admit this. Just not believers and followers of YOUR chosen god. But because of a willingness to go to "hell" rather than be extorted into worshipping him with threats of eternal damnation I am the ignorant one. Interesting perspective.

I f I am ignorant for expecting God to be a more majestic and fair enough entity to not commit injustices like this, which happen all the time in the Old Testament, then I would rather be ignorant.

If the Bible wasn't the foundation of western religion, and didn't have stories like this, I wouldn't have to bring it up. I would have nothing to complain about it and the world be a better place.

Someday.

a reply to: Raggedyman

If there is a New Covenant between YHWH and Israel through Jesus, then you don't need the Old Testament, it's a useless relic.

Unfortunately, that is not the case, God is still the same and doesn't make covenants and new covenants with the inhabitants of earth. Yahweh is not God, thank God, of the world. Just people who enjoy a good mass murder commited by a so called deity.

Coven= a gathering of witches or pagans

Covenants are made by the members of covens.

If you don't make a covenant you are not bound by it.

originally posted by: ParanoidCovKid
a reply to: Klassified

I dont see any critical thinking in pointing out the many contradictions and differences in the bible, anyone with half a brain can pick these faults out if they chose to do so. Your pointing things out to christians they already know, it still doesn't change their belief or faith. Maybe some it does, like myself but it hasn't stopped me believing in god. Its just changed my religion you could say, because i dont follow any religion, i have no book to look to or rules to follow. I treat people how i want to be treated, and pray to god. I dont go to church or do anything other than prayer. Im personally not causing anyone any harm.

The Christians ive met in my life haven't caused me any harm, in fact they have been quite nice. But so has muslims, so has Buddhists, so have Mormons. To judge an entire religious sect because of the actions of what people have done in the past is ludicrous. Many atheists in the world of the past have killed millions, why dont you bring their names up and pick faults in their actions and beliefs?

To judge a whole sect of Christians as one and the same is foolish. Each person is their own individual and can make their own decisions.

I see many atheists and not just on this site spreading hate for religious people and their beliefs. The question i ask which none of you have answered is what harm have christians personally in your own life done to you for you to have this passion and fire to publicly belittle them and their beleifs?? I just see it as a complete waste of energy, time and unnecessary stress to yourselves to be like that, but thats just my personal view, your entitled to yours.

If someone doesn't have to worship this individual, or read what I am writing, for that matter, than I have no problem with pointing to them and saying " This is what you worship. " on theinternet. You came, you saw, you responded. You have just thought critically and decided the appropriate route to go is criticizeme and my dastardly notion that God CAN NOT be this Yahweh character. And that people who choose to worship him are worshipping an evil entity and not God.

Criticize all you like. A long time ago some nut came up with this crazy idea called freedom. It means freedom of speech and religion, among others. That fundamental human right will be here long after you do, and as long as it is a right, I will exercise it. It was not long ago someone died to protect that right, so what better way to honor them?

a reply to: ParanoidCovKid

Why am I bringing this up, you ask?

Because it's a disgusting thing to find as justice. Never mind 'God's' justice.

a reply to: Heresiarch

Awesome, you are using English to explain the Latin language

Latin, to come together, nothing even remotely relevant unless you have a reason

And Jesus made a covenant with all mankind not just Israel

You can believe as you want to

a reply to: Heresiarch

You decide what justice is?


I guess you call that gnosisfaith

Raggedyman:

I only use the faculties I have been given by God to determine what is God. As such, I have determined that Yahweh is not God, or just, and yes, I do decide for myself what is and isn't justifiable in the name of God. The alternative (to deciding myself) sickens me.

originally posted by: Heresiarch
Numbers 15:32-36

While the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, a man was caught gathering wood on the sabbath day.· Those who caught him gathering wood brought him before Moses, Aaron had the whole community. · He was kept in custody, because the penalty he should undergo had not yet been fixed. · Yahweh said to Moses " This man must be put to death. The whole community must stone him outside the camp" · The whole community took him outside the camp and stoned him, until he was dead, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.

With a barbarian for a god who needs a devil? Apparently, the god of Israel doesn't mess around when it comes to his holy day of rest. Not only did he demand the death of a man but he made the whole camp implicit, so everyone had blood on their hands. And they didn't seem to resist and in fact, sought his guidance because the god of Israel has nothing better to do than sanction a Saturday execution, which is apparently not a violation of the sabbath as long as it's outside the camp. But collecting wood to burn is. And this is the god people CHOOSE to follow. I guess they are scared by stories like this so this kiss his rear. Not I. The Gnostics called him the demiurge. That isn't harsh enough. I call him the Scourge. Yahweh is a total scumbag which is why Israel never had a devil until way later when they decided to adopt new tradition. For most of its existence there was, and still really isn't in the Old Testament a Christian version of Satan. It is only in Job where the character is given any prominence and he is under Yahweh's control, not opposed to him and not his enemy at all. The Satan even needs permission to act. Yahweh is responsible for good and evil in the Old Testament. And he is usually being evil.

What is a trip about this is, Yahweh was on the earth with these people. Yahweh’s presence was in this kavod, that fire and cloud thing. These people said that they would do that law contract, Yahweh said then I will dwell among you. One did play around with a God that is right in your camp, would you? Yahweh's righteousness is the key to all this.