A more left wing or centrist ATS anyone??

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: nonspecific

good point i think what is a right wing post to some looks different to others and I think the UK/American divide has a lot to do with that.

This site to me is the extreme of right wing, now others might not see it like that but that is my interpretation it is only my opinion and it is just as fallible as anyone else's.

Same language, similar starting point but two very different cultures.

There was a thread on stormfront recently saying by to sign up to ATS and spread "the message" of great white Christian hope...

And here we are today.

I'd link to the thread but their url's are banned here.

Should have seen the thread about Trump's rally the other day, the posts were almost identical to those on SF...

Same mantras, same sound bites, same blame placing.
Almost verbatim.


Best thing to do is ignore them.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Omg, it's not good, it's amazing. It's the front page of the Internet and there's a forum for EVERYTHING!!!

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: nonspecific

The right wing side of politics seems to be more about the self and less about the whole whereas the left seems more inclined to look at the greater picture and try to make sure there is more of an equality in people regardless of their input to the collective.

Many right wingers are also collectivists it's just hard to see past the me and mine shouts... it's a different kind of collectivism though called Tribalism. Conversely many collectivists leftists who claim to be all about the greater good and equality will manipulate and take advantage mercilessly.

You have nailed my issue with the more right wing approach.

Tribalism.

We are bigger and better than you, we stick together and we look after our own and our own kind. And we look after those that can be of benefit to us in the near future. Look after yourself and those that can help you and your goals and screw everyone else, either that or exploit them, whatever seems more beneficial at the time.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
There was a thread on stormfront recently saying by to sign up to ATS and spread "the message" of great white Christian hope...

And here we are today.

I'd link to the thread but their url's are banned here.

Should have seen the thread about Trump's rally the other day, the posts were almost identical to those on SF...

Same mantras, same sound bites, same blame placing.
Almost verbatim.


Best thing to do is ignore them.

That has been an aim of stormfront for nearly a decade. They have informative literature on how to infiltrate places like ATS and spread their message in a non aggressive way and gain more followers.

Much like Britain First in the UK.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Why does it have to by anything?

The only people upset with the political ideology of others is ALWAYS the left.

To those in the center or the right we have to just deal with people disapproving of our stance like it is wrong to have our reasons.

The left, beyond this site, are similarly the only ones too try and dominate the political landscape- When that fails because THATS BS, they cry foul

Like they need a political bastion of Leftist ideology for things to be on the up and up.

People are what they are. No one is taking over anything. The right of center, libertarian point of view is strong because the left of center authoritarian is BS and terrible. It makes moral arguments like they were God, attack with vitriol when people disagree prompting the same in response, they deny common sense and outright lie when it suits them

and over all are not very convincing.

I hope everyone continues to be what ever the hell they are as I dont take issue with it. I dont need a safe space beyond a womb and a tomb.

And though you said a weak reason trying to save face to the obvious solution. I will say it again, LEAVE if you dont like. I hope you stay but I am sick of this BS always trying to sway the thought of everyone who chose for themselves just because they dont agree with you.

Form your own leftist safe space bastion of emotional thought and idealistic dribble. ATS is what the community is and maybe you should go be disenfranchised elsewhere if you have to constantly gripe about it.-


Yet anther BS thread about the woes of ATS.

At least its better than the Trump butt hurt thread.

/end rant.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: StallionDuck

To the OP... it doesn't matter if you make a thread just for left wingers... You wont stop opposing views. It's worked really well with atheist posting in religious threads, hasn't it?

I do not mind having oposing views i welcome opposing views. I just get pissed off with what i see as the extreme right wing views on this site and that non american members seem to be ignored.

The following are examples of extreme left vs right.

Look for threads dealing with:
- Anti-Gay (Any threads about being gay is not natural)
- Pro Christianity (Nearly anything dealing with Christian religion)
- Anti-Abortion (Any threads dealing with abortion period)
- George Bush
- 9/11
- Obama (that one Is pretty even on both sides tbh)

I know I'm missing some but you get the idea. In any of those threads you will see the hammer come down heavy on people who generally lean to the right. Now... I'm doing a bad thing by saying that it's more common to have anti gay, pro religion, and anti abortion belonging to the right. It's not always so, but it "seems" to be dominant. You can still have those views and be on the other side, however.

I get that you might think people from other countries are over looked here. I admit, I don't read many threads dealing with England's issues unless it's terror related and that's because I don't know jack nor do I really care about England's politics, just like many there wouldn't really give a thought about ours in the states.

However... There could be more people here from other countries than the US and unless they were talking about their country, I would never know it. I only know that you're from another country because of this post. Otherwise, you're just another poster from "who cares". You're human to me.... You have a pulse... You and I are discussing a topic and having a constructive argument. That's all I care about. I don't give a rats arse where you're from

ATS doesn't have borders....

a reply to: stolencar18

Why do extreme right wing ideas (your words...) piss you off so much?

What about extreme left wing ideas?

Here's a novel thought:

How about just referring to ideas as.... ideas.

Why the need to put a left or right label in front of it ?

The minute you do that, you polarize, you divide, and you instantly create a false dichotomy-ish environment.


Humans are a wee bit more complicated than just one side (left right) OR the other side (left right)... most humans are compiled of many facets coming from many directions.

This seems to be the part that so many of you just can't seem to wrap your heads around.

You just can't seem to let go of this entire group pigeonholing thing (right or left only, republican or democrat only, liberal or conservative only) rather than, instead, converse with each individual on an individual person by person basis without the pigeonhole finger-pointing label tactics.



Okay, I get it. The polarizing thing is something that's been ingrained into your heads since birth, it's all around you your entire life - in school, in the media, in your politics, in your religions, in your parents, etc etc.

But seriously people...

It's time to de-program !


Stop thinking in terms of one side or the other, and start thinking in terms of individual human complexities...

Another words: More free thinking and less lock-step programmed propaganda.



*drops mic*

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin



The only people upset with the political ideology of others is ALWAYS the left.

What absolute nonsense.

I am trying to think of more to say about this to make what would appear to be a reasonable response but if that is not simply outright attacking left wing views whilst looking to promote right ones I do not know what is.

Utter, utter garbage.

I cannot even begin to give a better reply or even bother that I have not.

a reply to: nonspecific

So.....emotion and no logical response. Vitriol and a general disaproval of my POV.

cool.

Thanks for proving my point.

EDIT TO ADD:
You could try to form an adult response where you contest my words, but you cant so you attack me. Typical. The entire premise of this thread is asking for a MORE leftist ATS. As if that is even a valid and logical request? I would hope for a 50/50 spread since not everyone is left of center and to try and DOMINATE the political landscape is BS and completely wrong.

But you do prove why people are gravitating to the right. The leftist point of view is entirely unconvincing and void of rational thought and reason mostly.

It EASILY gravitates to its polar extreme like a drug addict increases his dose.

The right has its extreme but honestly people tend to just knock that crap down since NORMAL people dont like extremes like the left does.

It is evident that no one here who is opining their moral superiority has researched, considered nor even glanced at the writings, philosophies and ideologies of those to the opposite spectrum of them, and having acquiesced the chance to performing such a comparison to their own ideologies, have resorted to no more than repeating someone else's rhetoric, instead of coming to any conclusion on their own accord.

The principles and arguments for more right-wing or left-wing principles are all there for scrutiny, but any scrutiny is left absent from any diatribe that opposes them off hand. Even the abuse of the terms "right" and "left" give no indication of any knowledge regarding what these terms mean, their history, their arguments. In other words, what we have is pure partisanship and bias, led by unscrupulousness and propaganda.

a reply to: tadaman

You contradict yourself by stating that,

"The only people upset with the political ideology of others is ALWAYS the left."

What is there to discuss when this is your opinion?

You can call blame and call names as much as you like, feel hurt and accuse people of childishness if needs be but what can someone say when you have already decided such a bold thing?

"The leftist point of view is entirely unconvincing and void of rational thought and reason mostly."

Again how can anyone be expected to have a rational discussion against this kind of determind statement?

a reply to: nonspecific

You could have set the tone. Set the example.

I would have explained that what I was referring to is that the only people that need to have complete dominion over the political landscape are leftist extremists. That there is an inherent need on the left to become increasingly polarized because it is self fulfilling and compounding in its need to expand on moral superiority, AND THAT DRIVE is what makes it seek total dominion and makes it uncomfortable with those who disagree.

Everyone else functions just fine living alongside opposition.

I read and learn from leftist ideology. I hold some beliefs that are left of center.

It is almost impossible and increasingly so for my counterpart on the other side to do the same.

Again this thread is asking for a MORE leftist community. A freaking safe space because there is too much opposition.

Any opposition is too much since it is morality and emotion that is being defended in the eyes of the left.

It is like annoying religious types that cant see a breast or hear me make a joke about Jesus.

Excuse you, I can be what ever I want without reprimand in a democratic society and as such ALL POV are valid. There is not EVER too much opposition requiring more concerted efforts. I hope ATS retains TONS of leftists. Its good to have all types.

I would leave if it became a typical right wing ego stroking fest.

ATS is correct in being dead center and ALLOWING PEOPLE TO BE WHAT EVER THE HELL THEY ARE!

What is a leftist anyway. Never really heard the term until I came to ATS, now I see the term used as a slur in comments sections of uk newspapers. Same applies with progressive. Never heard this term used before and I stdied sociology at school, which was quite a left wing course at the time. Never came across these left wing slurs. I understand Marxist, anarchist, communist, socialist and feminist. The rest is all new to me, since being on ATS. Progressive and liberal seem to be more associated with the American left. So half the time when people use the word leftist on here, I'm never quite sure what they mean or where they are drawing the line.

a reply to: nonspecific

Well, to be fair, you guys tried to take over North America, we just took it from you because of your oppression (and then proceeded to oppress others afterward :/ )

I was unaware of the promise of a UK forum (although, quite honestly, I don't see the need for it, as you pick and choose which threads to read and be active in), but if it was promised, then I agree that it should be created. I mean, they created a pets forum, right?

But like I said, apparently I misinterpreted the OP. So be it...but it wasn't a hard misinterpretation to make.

a reply to: xuenchen

Of course it is. Of course it is.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: nonspecific

Well, to be fair, you guys tried to take over North America, we just took it from you because of your oppression (and then proceeded to oppress others afterward :/ )

I was unaware of the promise of a UK forum (although, quite honestly, I don't see the need for it, as you pick and choose which threads to read and be active in), but if it was promised, then I agree that it should be created. I mean, they created a pets forum, right?

But like I said, apparently I misinterpreted the OP. So be it...but it wasn't a hard misinterpretation to make.

Yes you did take it from us and look what you did to it!

We asked for a UK specific forum simply so those of us from the UK can have a little place to hide from Donald trump threads and whatever.

As I said before UK and US politics are very different as are our cultures and as much as we may think the same we are very different cultures.

As to the US you can keep it now that you have broken it.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
What is a leftist anyway. Never really heard the term until I came to ATS, now I see the term used as a slur in comments sections of uk newspapers. Same applies with progressive. Never heard this term used before and I stdied sociology at school, which was quite a left wing course at the time. Never came across these left wing slurs. I understand Marxist, anarchist, communist, socialist and feminist. The rest is all new to me, since being on ATS. Progressive and liberal seem to be more associated with the American left. So half the time when people use the word leftist on here, I'm never quite sure what they mean or where they are drawing the line.

I think leftist is a rude word that is used when somebody does not agree with your right wing viewpoint from what I understand.


A little like left wing looney or that "eveyone I don't like is hitler" thing that right wing bigots seem to think makes them less agressive and somehow nullifies there right wing arrogant viewpoint.

a reply to: nonspecific

A little like left wing looney or that "[everyone] I don't like is hitler" thing that right wing bigots seem to think makes them less [aggressive] and somehow nullifies [their] right wing arrogant viewpoint.

The irony. Sometimes pure stupidity can be stunningly beautiful.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Never came across these left wing slurs. I understand Marxist, anarchist, communist, socialist and feminist. The rest is all new to me, since being on ATS. Progressive and liberal seem to be more associated with the American left. So half the time when people use the word leftist on here, I'm never quite sure what they mean or where they are drawing the line.

Welcome to the reductionist world!



Frankly, I didn't even think about that due to the sickness invoked by the mere thought of a thought police. But now that you've mentioned this lack of differentiation, I would suggest it's just part of all the polemics involved in the "divide & conquer" tactic.

The advantages of Newspeak are its means of preserving the secrets of the Party, preventing politically motivated actions, and promoting the use of politically correct terms. Its disadvantages include the Party using censorship and glamorization of themselves, compromised freedom of speech, and the prevention of the flow of ideas for the citizens of Oceania, who are controlled by this reduction in their language

en.wikipedia.org...

The line begins to blur.