A more left wing or centrist ATS anyone??

I have written before about how I feel like i become more and more disenfranchised with this site, its kind of sad in a way because I do really enjoy ATS at times. When this place is good its really quite amazing.

What really really gets me about ATS is the rabid right wing take over, some don't even actually acknowledge that their views as far right as well known groups like the KKK or EDL. I find it very difficult now these days to converse with these people who are at the extreme opposite of what I stand for when they dont even seem to understand how extreme their own views are.

Political correctness is a dirty thing on ATS.

The political debate is infuriating when most of the people I am conversing with are all right wing who I know secretly want to say lets deport all the people with brown faces that pray to that funny named god and build a giant wall between us and them then we can ignore them for eternity.

I am really pissed at how Americanised this international forum has become. I have asked on numerous occasions for there to be more regional forums such as a "UK Madness forum" to be right up their along side the American forums but I get the feeling that the owners just don't really care, its like they are more preoccupied with keeping the right wing American crap train rolling along.

Now I am not going to start sucking up to mods and owners with the usual line of "I dont blame the mods/owners". I hate to brake this to you guys but you need to clear this place out, this right wing take over of ATS is a mess you guys need to sort out. its your fault that members like myself now feel a little forgotten. Would adding one forum really be so difficult when you add one ever four years for a silly election a lot of use dont care about.

Now to be fair the Mods and owners are not the real problem the real problem is the vast legions of right wing fanatics who have joined up to ATS in the last 18 months or so. This is a member content driven site and it just so happens that i absolutely detest most of the content being produced right now its ignorant right wing crap.

Ahhh now i hear your cry.... well go elsewhere!

And that gets me right on to my point a question i have.

Does anyone know of a site that has the same quality as ATS yet is a little more politically centrist. I would even quite like a kind of invitation only type of site for critical thinking and discussion about current events that are done based on facts.

Any ideas would be much appreciated.

I would never have believed when i first joined this site i would have been write a thread like this......

EDIT: I just want to make something very clear, I am not asking for a forum where everyone agrees with everyone else what I am looking for is a place where the political debate is not full of extreme right wing views and facts are debate over political opinions.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I usually enjoy your input on things and like your thought process. But are you seriously asking for an echo chamber?

Nobody likes a fundi, but there are plenty of folks who lean to the right that aren't nutters. Just as there are some that lean to the left that aren't wussies. (yes that was a tongue in cheek jab)

Just relax, take a break from this place for a bit, and after the elections, everything will go back to it's usual level of crazy.
The elections seem to bring the ugly parts of humans to the top. I'd blame it on the liberals, but they get blamed for so much already. I'll give them a pass.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

So you want an ATS that more in line with Progressive thinking.

Political correctness is a dirty thing on ATS.

In a way, yes. We get sick of the whining. If people can't defend their position, that's their fault.

I have asked on numerous occasions for there to be more regional forums such as a "UK Madness forum" to be right up their along side the American forums but I get the feeling that the owners just don't really care, its like they are more preoccupied with keeping the right wing American crap train rolling along.

So? Start more threads on U.K. matters. No one is stopping you to create more interest in UK politics or area concerns. Even people from the UK seem to always have an opinion on American politics, while ignoring their own screwed up leaders. WE get the blame for everything, although your govt fell in line right behind us.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I don't think ATS is particularly right-leaning. There are some vocal "right-wing" (usually these days taken to mean neoconservative) members, but a lot more "actual" libertarian (not Tea Party fake-libertarian) types. I believe having a Democrat president tends to cause more "vocal" right-wing talk. I wasn't a member during the Bush years, but I did frequent the site as a visitor ("lurker") and I seem to recall it seeming like a place where many people openly voiced their displeasure with the neocon right wing.

Like The Daily Show with John Stewart, "left-wing" content became harder to come by after Bush. Likewise, Right-Wing content will be harder to come by should Trump be the next Presid...cough-hack--hack...Presiden--ahem-hack-hack. Can't type it, my fingers just won't do it. You know what I'm trying to say.

a reply to: network dude

not a echo chamber as such in fact i am usually the one pointing out the problems of asking for some kind of forum free of debunkers for example.

I do not want a place where everyone agrees with everyone else I just dont want to be part of a site that is so far to the right any-more.

That is what I am asking for a more mature and less right wing chat forum.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

To be honest - and I hope this is not seen as thread drift - I'm somewhat disappointed in ATS myself; not because members hold views that aren't mine, which I see as healthy and stimulating, but because of the total lack of manners and decorum, lack of discussion skills, lack of being able to say "I was wrong, I learned something, thank you" etc. shown by a fairly large group of posters.

It seems to me that participation in a divers group as ours here requires extra-ordinary skills, and to me it's clear many don't have those skills.

Yes, I do agree that there is a lot of loud mouth right wing stuff going on in here, but I don't think that's the problem. It's the way it is presented: loud, unpolite, shamelessly ignorant and actually against civility.

I don't know how "we" (or ATS staff) can cure this: you can get an account here without any strings attached, can blurb out any total nonsense you want, get banned, re-enter and start all over again.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Brave words Sir,brave words indeed.

It is not an issue that affects just this site though.

Recent issues and media propaghanda is creating a shift to the more extreme right across the board.

Many formerly placid and sensible folks are getting drawn into the attraction of the extreme right "make this country like it used to be" camp and this is somewhat worrying to me and has been for some time.

The left is at present taking the blame for most of the issues in the world as it is seen as weak.

I know for a fact that certain groups target sites like this(and including it) to push extreme right wing agenda's and have even seen documents on how to infiltrate such groups and put forth a message without seeming to obvious.

Just look at "Britain First" with over a million likes on facebook??

It is I feel something that we just need to knuckle down and deal with until the tides change once again.

Good luck.

I agree with almost nothing you say on here, friend, but that doesn't stop me from wanting any or all with differing opinions to stick around.

Do as Network Dude suggested....take a small break, clear your head, or better yet, visit some of the forums on here that arent so politically charged.

Can't say I agree with you on this one.

In order for debate to thrive we have to hear all points of view. If some things upset you or you think they a are not politically correct, we should do what we always do and allow the mods to do their job. On the whole they do a great job of weeding out the trolls.

As for other sites similar to ATS, but more centrist, it wouldn't be anything like ATS would it?

a reply to: ForteanOrg

I'm somewhat disappointed in ATS myself; not because members hold views that aren't mine, which I see as healthy and stimulating, but because of the total lack of manners and decorum, lack of discussion skills, lack of being able to say "I was wrong, I learned something, thank you" etc. shown by a fairly large group of posters

Hell yes!!

I could not agree with this more.

originally posted by: dogstar23
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I don't think ATS is particularly right-leaning. There are some vocal "right-wing" (usually these days taken to mean neoconservative) members, but a lot more "actual" libertarian (not Tea Party fake-libertarian) types. I believe having a Democrat president tends to cause more "vocal" right-wing talk. I wasn't a member during the Bush years, but I did frequent the site as a visitor ("lurker") and I seem to recall it seeming like a place where many people openly voiced their displeasure with the neocon right wing.

Like The Daily Show with John Stewart, "left-wing" content became harder to come by after Bush. Likewise, Right-Wing content will be harder to come by should Trump be the next Presid...cough-hack--hack...Presiden--ahem-hack-hack. Can't type it, my fingers just won't do it. You know what I'm trying to say.

It can be difficult from a UK perspective in a US dominated enviroment as your attitudes are more towards the right in the first place making what an American would see as left wing look to a UK member look like a right wing stance in my opinion.

Might need some beers for this one I think.....

Off to the shop.

That is what I am asking for a more mature and less right wing chat forum.

Do I even have to tell you what the problem with this statement is?

OK, I'm going to anyhow. You are basically equating maturity with left-wing which is more or less an immature mindset IMO.

I see people who hold views on all sides who are all degrees of mature, enlightened, intelligent, moral or what have you. Ideology is not indicative an any one of those other conditions. To think that it is is basically you simply looking for a way to justify your personal views and ideas beyond arguing and proving them on their own merits.

a reply to: ketsuko

To be clear by right wing i am talking about the extreme the people who troll thread with "I HATE MUSLIMS/JEWS/IMMIGRANTS" written between every line.

Also I am not saying the right wing view is more or less mature only that I want more mature debate (less ignorance, most accepting of others views, more open to contradicting ideas) and less of the extreme right wing behaviour

originally posted by: ketsuko

That is what I am asking for a more mature and less right wing chat forum.

Do I even have to tell you what the problem with this statement is?

OK, I'm going to anyhow. You are basically equating maturity with left-wing which is more or less an immature mindset IMO.

I see people who hold views on all sides who are all degrees of mature, enlightened, intelligent, moral or what have you. Ideology is not indicative an any one of those other conditions. To think that it is is basically you simply looking for a way to justify your personal views and ideas beyond arguing and proving them on their own merits.

I find this interesting.

I actually do equate a more left wing approach as more mature but in a utopian future sense.

To me the right wing attitude is based too much on selfishness and power whereas the left seems more inclined to look for a solution to the worlds problems that include all people regardless of intellect, social standing and financial stability.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Find a topic that you have a good bit of knowledge on, and get others involved.
I have no clue how your political system works. Whigs and Tories, it's all Greek to me. And I bet a few others here might benefit from some education on things UK.

Share some stories from you home town. Get others interested in your area. I know threads that tell a story always interest me. Learning a bit of personal info makes me feel more connected to that poster.

Just don't let the inevitable ebs and flows get you down. Remember, we have summer vacation coming up, and you get to hear all the kiddies come here and impart their version of wisdom on us all for a few months.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

some don't even actually acknowledge that their views as far right as well known groups like the KKK or EDL.

I've only been visiting this site regularly for less than a year but I can't say that I've seen people making statements akin to what the KKK would likely put forward. Yes, I have seen some pretty wild posts, but I can't recall seeing something that blatant. Of course, it is possible that I haven't clicked into the same threads as you.

when most of the people I am conversing with are all right wing who I know secretly want to say.....

Although we are all only human, I really think it serves one's own interests best to not make assumptions about what people are "secretly" thinking. All you can really go off of is what people actually say on this site (and their actions in the real world).

a reply to: network dude

Find a topic that you have a good bit of knowledge on, and get others involved.

Tried that, threads got trashed by members how didn't like that i dont seem to fall down on the "OMG its a conspiracy" side of the wall.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Reddit.

And I hear you, ATS has become a conservative Trump fan boy site.

a reply to: nonspecific

See, to me I equate the left wing approach as unrealistic.

You cannot have equality because people are not equal and cannot be made equal. At our individual levels, you and I are very different. We have different likes and dislikes, different strengths and weaknesses, different beliefs, different hopes and aspirations. And without knowing which is us is the smarter, different levels of intellect.

Balance all that out and frankly, you and I are not the same and are not equal. You could not simply plug me into your life and expect no one to notice and difference and vice versa which is what true equality would be. You could not treat me like you and you like me. You can't even hand the two of us the same one-size-fits-all shirt and expect it to look alike on each of us.

Why? Because we are different people. Individuals.

In such a world, the best you can hope for is one framework of laws that everyone operates under, but the best way for us to each attempt to satisfy our individual hopes, needs, beliefs and dreams is to be left as free as possible to pursue them on our own at our own pace. That does mean it will be messy and that some will not go anywhere while others go everywhere. It does mean that people will reach unequal outcomes.

But forcing everyone to equal outcomes artificially elevates those who don't have the drive or ability to do more at the expense and frustration of those who can and should be allowed to exceed but are artificially held back.

It keeps the world stagnant and no one goes much of anywhere.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I find it very difficult now these days to converse with these people who are at the extreme opposite of what I stand for when they don't even seem to understand how extreme their own views are.

But you don't converse with them to change their minds, you do it to show others the contrast so they can make up their own mind.
Thats what makes the two way of the internet so valuable.

Going back to one sided is like the days of old, the TV newspaper and magazines had the only opinion.

(bleh)