Why would anybody do this? Please...give me one good reason!

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: schuyler

You leave your DNA scattered around every day, without question. If the government wanted to get your DNA, they easily could without your permission. If you're going to be paranoid, at least do a good job of it. 23&me is really too easy.

You're missing the point. Of course, you leave your DNA around everywhere. How messy it would be to have tens of thousands of "secret" workers going around gathering it. Impossible.

I'll ask this question again: If you were looking for 1000 golden needles in a haystack, how could you find them without disturbing the haystack?

No, I'm not "missing the point" on anything. If the gov wants YOUR DNA, they can get it. This idea of "1,000 golden needles" is BS and supposition. You have NOTHING to substantiate that, even as vague as it is. If you're worried about farming a "DNA database" for some obscure trait, they've already got it. You are out in the open. You're exposed exposed. "23&me" is the LEAST of your worries.

The issue here is that you think access to your DNA is a privacy issue and you think you have the right to withhold it. I believe overall it is a good thing and ultimately it is NOT your right to withhold it. You have concocted these "1000 golden needles" that is simply a paranoid delusion that does not exist.

And this is reminiscent of one of the objections to DNA testing in regards to the "Genographic Project" run by National Geographic. The objection is that DNA PROVES, without a doubt, that we are all close cousins. NO ONE is further apart than 50th cousin. And THIS, according to the critics, is "bad" because it shows that "ethnic identity" is nonsense. The critics would rather maintain their "ethnic identity" to retain their sense of being different than everyone else, when in actuality, we are the same. It's a stupid objection that shows just how far we will go to retain that sense of entitlement. DNA PROVES we are actually the same, and "ethnics" don't want to hear that.

I'll ask the question a third time: If I wanted to find 1000 golden needles in a haystack, how could I do it without disturbing the haystack?

Has anybody ever heard of Yuri Milner, a guy that has funded over $100 million dollars in search for alien life? Interesting character. Look him up.

Anyway, he is one of the investors in 23andMe.

For Wojcicki (WOH-jiskey), 23andMe’s return reaffirms her belief that there is both a business case and moral imperative to DNA sequencing. The former is borne out by this past July’s $115 million Series E funding round led by Fidelity Management & Research, which brings 23andMe’s total to $226 million and a unicorn valuation of more than $1 billion.

Other investors have included Google Ventures, New Enterprise Associates and billionaire Russian investor Yuri Milner, who recently funneled $100 million toward a search for alien life.

www.usatoday.com...

originally posted by: 123143

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: 123143
a reply to: schuyler

It would make more sense to tattoo everyone with ink visible under ultraviolet. I don't know what the identifying mark would be - SSN, some other national ID number.

I don't want a damn implant. The body naturally resists such things.

That would be a single number system tied to a database where the actual information would be kept whereas an implant would carry many different data elements from your driver's license to your credit cards--even your concealed carry permit--locally, an analog of your wallet today. Implant rejection is a minor issue. I doubt if you, personally, will have to deal with one, but it's coming anyway. :-)

All you need is one number which accesses a comprehensive database record.

That last clause: "comprehensive database record" is your clue. That's a terribly simplistic system that assumes a level of cooperation that is not achieved. The local public library would have to interface with Bank of America. A "wallet system," on the other hand, is much more versatile and, IMO, much more likely AND much easier to secure privacy rights.

The "system" is essentially the same. One is a distributed database. The other isn't. I see technology moving toward a distributed system myself, as is the case with Smart Phones. A distributed system is a natural extension of what we already have.

But this is splitting hairs. The overall point is that data will move to an increasingly electronic format and away from paper. You won't need a paper driver's license, a "certificate of insurance coverage," cash, membership cards, boarding passes, ID cards, discount cards, credit cards, or ANYTHING you carry around in your wallet. Pull out every single piece of paper you now carry in your wallet and wave bye, bye. It's simply no longer necessary, and THAT is the important take-away from this, not in what format the database itself will be in.

a reply to: schuyler

People are proud of their individual cultures. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I'm 100% Kraut and GD proud of it. I don't want to be lumped in with Russkies and the Irish. They have their own unique cultures.

Such things should be preserved, not subsumed in the name of dystopian homogenization.

a reply to: schuyler

If the gov wants YOUR DNA, they can get it.

I'm not even sure we are talking about the government as a whole. Some insiders maybe.

You can order up to 10 kits. You are also able to gift a kit. There is no way to know who's DNA was really submitted. You could send in your dogs for crying out loud. Submit using a fake name, use a friends mailing address, send it in. I'm very curious to do this but $199.00 a pop is a lot. There's a chain of custody sorely lacking. I wouldn't be worried about it in the least. It wouldn't hold up in court.

originally posted by: 123143
a reply to: schuyler

People are proud of their individual cultures. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I'm 100% Kraut and GD proud of it. I don't want to be lumped in with Russkies and the Irish. They have their own unique cultures.

Such things should be preserved, not subsumed in the name of dystopian homogenization.

There's a lot wrong with that. You're 100% human. The fact that your ancestors were predominately from one culture is nice, but a false sense of pride. What is dystopian is allegience to a nation state. This has caused numerous unnecessary wars.

Life and Critical Illness Insurers would be salivating at the opportunity to use it in underwriting your application. Not unlike the Big Brother devices you can put in your cars in the hopes of your good driving reducing your premiums....

Couldnt they already have the DNA of anyone that has had any type of blood work done.. like a standing order to have all blood samples submitted to DNA profiling ? Just wondering..

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: 123143
a reply to: schuyler

People are proud of their individual cultures. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I'm 100% Kraut and GD proud of it. I don't want to be lumped in with Russkies and the Irish. They have their own unique cultures.

Such things should be preserved, not subsumed in the name of dystopian homogenization.

There's a lot wrong with that. You're 100% human. The fact that your ancestors were predominately from one culture is nice, but a false sense of pride. What is dystopian is allegience to a nation state. This has caused numerous unnecessary wars.

I am not nor will I ever be a member of the Socialist herd.

If you want to blend in with everyone else that's just fine, but don't expect everyone else to commit cultural suicide with you.

originally posted by: HarryJoy
Couldnt they already have the DNA of anyone that has had any type of blood work done.. like a standing order to have all blood samples submitted to DNA profiling ? Just wondering..

I thought of that, too, but that would have to be a government mandated action, and the people would rightfully demand oversight.

In bringing up this private company, I am saying that you are giving your DNA to individual private citizens you know nothing about. They are associated with various companies and individuals and certain investors that now have access to your genomic information.

Some people may not find that disturbing, but I just cannot imagine turning my personal DNA over to a private company.

I am questioning how access to millions of individual DNA samples could be used or sold.

I am wondering if there isn't a search for a particular "needle in a haystack" genetic marker. One of 23andMe's investors is a man known for putting tens of millions of dollars into the search for alien life. Why would someone like this be interested in this particular company?

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: lightedhype
She asked why they dont just put a chip in everybodys hand and that has your id and is how you spend your money at any place. I laughed and felt horror when she said this.

I wouldn't mind it, because I'm not up to any monkey business like taking illegal drugs or cheating on my spouse or falsifying my taxes. How cool would it be to walk into a grocery store with no I.D. or money, fill up your cart, bag it and just stroll out to your car while the sensor in the door scans you and everything in the cart and bills you on your card?

Or when I get a little older if I lose some of my faculties and I'm not sure exactly how to get home. Just do a quick scan and friends, relatives, police, all know exactly where I am and where to come get me.

If you weren't involved in petty (I assume) crime, you wouldn't be so worried.

This attitude scares me the most. What if you WANT to be involved in 'monkey business', like taking drugs in your own home responsibly? Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean it should be illegal.
At the moment we can go against the grain and still commit incredibly minor crimes, thus showing the world that the law should change.
The opportunity to go against a law gives people a chance to re-evaluate it, which in many cases has changed some very outdated laws for the better.
That is the major reason I do not want the restrictive "program newest laws into chip and arrest anyone who goes against it".
Can't you see that anything can become illegal?
Even things YOU may enjoy [fishing, partying, listening to music, dancing, gardening, etc] can become illegal.

If you have one of those chips, there is no room to show the world how ludicrous the new laws may be. Instead you just have to stop what you enjoyed for years and live with it.

Man, I hate it when people only see to the end of their noses. Think longterm, think the unthinkable, because it can happen. Fast. One corrupt/overly religious/tyrannical government and your "I have nothing to hide" turns into "I am now a major criminal, how did this happen?".

a reply to: queenofswords

You may be right...but it seems to me that if this was a big enough issue to "them" ...they wouldnt just let all of those perfectly good blood samples slip away...without profiling them.. .just my opinion.

originally posted by: HarryJoy
a reply to: queenofswords

You may be right...but it seems to me that if this was a big enough issue to "them" ...they wouldnt just let all of those perfectly good blood samples slip away...without profiling them.. .just my opinion.

Actually, you made me wonder of 23andMe or even Ancestry.com might not be buying DNA from labs unbeknownst to you. That would be interesting to try and find out.

Am I wrong or did I hear correctly - some of these research labs are patenting genes, aren't they?

I guess that's definitely something to worry about; them slapping a sticker on your ass because they hold the patent on Alzheimer's or some such crap.

We'll be government property yet.

Geeze if you want to know your cultural identity, no need for a DNA screening. Sheesh, just use Ancestry dot com and trace your family history back. I traced mine to the 1500's in England and 1400's in Germany. Yay, I'm English and German -- no DNA test needed.

For most of us? We already know our cultural heritage, we swing it around in America like some kind of weird flag.

I remember being in Boston at a conference a few years ago. Attending were a few guys from Ireland. They related to me how "strange" Boston was.

"It's....it's more Irish than Ireland is, it's weird..."

The other guy said, "It would be like you going to China and visiting a city that was all dressed up like New York, with Chinese guys selling hot dogs and pizza slices on every corner and yellow cabs everywhere."

It's an American thing to be all about your "cultural heritage". Think about it. If you live in France, and your family has always lived in France...

I find it ironic. Our families left the "old world" and gave it the middle finger, yet we are so "proud" of our cultural heritage -- and then despise Europe for the political systems. We romanticize the cultures and few hardly travel there.

Let me tell ya'll right now -- Paris? Not romantic. Sorry. Maybe at night, but just about any place is romantic at night. It's dirty, polluted (the air made my throat hurt), noisy, drab (everything is grey), impersonal, busy...the food was pretty lousy unless you really knew where to go...its not like all French food is awesome, in fact their table wine was horrible compared to the table wine in Spain. It's not anything close to the romanticized view Americans hold up as some kind ideal we see in movies and TV. I saw the same homeless guy in the same spot on a piece of cardboard 4 days in a row. I thought maybe he was actually dead the 4th day. Just on the sidewalk, no one seemed to mind or care.

Now Rome? Rome at least has colors...flowers, painted buildings and colorful people. The good food is easier to find and the weather is usually better. If you want someplace more romantic, try Italy.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I have to agree. I've done a lot of traveling in Europe an most of the northern hemisphere.
Italy would be my choice for best place to visit in Europe. But all my travel was before 2000, so things may have changed a lot since then but things I enjoyed most haven't changed in hundreds of years.

Sums up concerns for these tests and shares and article that the company dismissed otherwise but may be of interest to you www.abovetopsecret.com...

Despite the concern though, these tests for me would be out of curiosity as well as what can be found with health. I can see an interest, especially since I am one of the people where it's difficult to find family history due to adoption and name changes during emigration. All the while the markers on some tests might be vague, the 'relative finder' features offered and similar with these tests may add some insight.

a reply to: justdust

Yup, Spain was pretty awesome...I'm sure France is cool, just not in the large metropolitan areas. I'm from Alaska, so I'm not really used to concrete jungles anyway. At least both Italy and Spain had COLOR.

London is nice...one, because I can understand the people, and two....Dr. WHO anyone? I keep expecting the Dr. to jump out from around a corner...and those buses, and the fish n chips...Dunno, something about England. It's like the USA...if we still had taste and class.

a reply to: 123143

Am I wrong or did I hear correctly - some of these research labs are patenting genes, aren't they?

You're wrong.
Naturally occurring genes, human (or otherwise, probably) cannot be patented.
www.theguardian.com...

Justice Clarence Thomas ruled that Myriad's assertion that the DNA it isolated from the human body for its tests were patentable had to be dismissed because it violated patent rules. The court said that laws of nature, natural phenomena and abstract ideas lay outside patent protection.

"We hold that a naturally occurring DNA segment is a product of nature and not patent eligible merely because it has been isolated," Thomas said.