Police Officer talks about his experience at Trump's rally in Tucson: AWESOME!

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: yuppa

As I said... how about peaceful people who show no harm to society? Many of these people are escaping threat of daily violence in Mexico and Central America. There are options. It doesn't have to be deportation or nothing.

The problem is so clearly getting past the angry need to "stick it" to the illegals, and instead focus on real solutions that make our country better.

The Law is the law if they are caught they deserve to b e punished. Its not anger its equal treatment. thousands have done it the right way. the countries in question need to be punished by the UN and made to help their people out by force if need be.

a reply to: yuppa

Then you also agree every man, woman, and child who has ever illegally downloaded an mp3, video, ebook, or software no matter how long ago, should all be fined the maximum penalty, thousands, if not millions of dollars per person, no matter how many families it destroys all across the country. In your view, they broke the law and deserve to be punished as harshly as possible.

I find that draconian, and completely disagree.

a reply to: yuppa

the countries in question need to be punished by the UN and made to help their people out by force if need be.

You propose that a foreign international body impose fines and fees against sovereign nations?

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: yuppa

Then you also agree every man, woman, and child who has ever illegally downloaded an mp3, video, ebook, or software no matter how long ago, should all be fined the maximum penalty, thousands, if not millions of dollars per person, no matter how many families it destroys all across the country. In your view, they broke the law and deserve to be punished as harshly as possible.

I find that draconian, and completely disagree.

Such a thing called fair use. ALOT of stuff falls under that. An dthey tried to do that earlier in the decade but it didnt fly. remember napster and others? IF you are not making a profit off of it And you bought it you can give copies away.

The MPAA and RIAA had to prove the files they had were not actually paid for AT ALL. as in NEVER had been sold to anyone. IF they were bought originally its th e owners per roggitive if they want to share it or give it a s a gift.

If we go by the MPAA and RIAA wants us to do giving a movie or a cd to someone would be illegal. Its WHY they ar e not going after individuals anymore who dont make a dime.They do go after BIG DISTRIBUTORS though.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: yuppa

the countries in question need to be punished by the UN and made to help their people out by force if need be.

You propose that a foreign international body impose fines and fees against sovereign nations?

The UN has done so many times over the years. So why stop now?

originally posted by: yuppa
Its WHY they ar e not going after individuals anymore....They do go after BIG DISTRIBUTORS though.

In similar fashion, maybe it's better to go after the people responsible for escorting and smuggling large groups of people across the border, often preying on these people along the way... The BIG distributors rather than the individuals who just want to live here, work and be peaceful.

a reply to: yuppa

We are a signatory which places us in a position of not acting against the treaty under other treaties (particularly the Vienna Convention) that have been ratified and yes, the United States has officially chosen to cooperate with the Court under President Obama, and no, we don't have to submit anything to the Senate to cooperate and work with the ICC or to abide by other treaties that have been ratified by the Senate that we will honor UN proclamations and not work to undermine them.

One hundred and twenty five nations, including all of Europe and our allies are hardly a "kangaroo court."

The majority of what used to be called "the free world" is party to the Rome Statute, and like it or not, the United States is judged by these criteria for war crimes whether we consider ourselves "subject to them" or not.

And under the Rome accords and other international law torture and targeting non-combatants are both clearly war crimes.

If we pursue those means to an end, we are guilty and will be held to account, late or soon.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

originally posted by: UKTruth
If your'e saying I don't agree with Obama and Bush then i know I am on the correct side of the argument.

I believe in reasoned rational thinking. I'm not blindly against everything a person says just because I disagree with some things.

I'm honestly surprised that people don't see what a bad move it would be to ban people based on Muslim faith. For people who want to win a war, or avoid an attack, that's a pretty dumb way to go about it.

The reason is that the majority of Muslims in America want to bring in Sharia law (51% in recent study) and 25% of Muslims believe that what the terrorists do is justified. This is a huge pool for extremists to go recruiting for their next suicide bomber or mass murderer.

Just keep letting in Muslims without proper checks and profiling and wait and see what happens.

There has been no person other than Trump that has put forward a realistic solution to this problem within the Muslim community.

a reply to: UKTruth

I've heard of these studies. They are always entirely accurate and never filled with blatant lies.

originally posted by: BrokedownChevy
a reply to: UKTruth

I've heard of these studies. They are always entirely accurate and never filled with blatant lies.

I guess it's easy to dismiss anything that doesn't quite fit with the PC world.

originally posted by: UKTruth
The reason is that the majority of Muslims in America want to bring in Sharia law (51% in recent study) and 25% of Muslims believe that what the terrorists do is justified. This is a huge pool for extremists to go recruiting for their next suicide bomber or mass murderer.

This is exactly why it's important to maintain that we only target terrorists. As you pointed out, we have a lot of Muslims here, about 3 million, some with an ear open to extremists. Once we start saying no to Muslims, based purely on religion, we risk alienating our Muslim allies, and would help Muslim extremists recruit from inside the country.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

originally posted by: UKTruth
The reason is that the majority of Muslims in America want to bring in Sharia law (51% in recent study) and 25% of Muslims believe that what the terrorists do is justified. This is a huge pool for extremists to go recruiting for their next suicide bomber or mass murderer.

This is exactly why it's important to maintain that we only target terrorists. As you pointed out, we have a lot of Muslims here, about 3 million, some with an ear open to extremists. Once we start saying no to Muslims, based purely on religion, we risk alienating our Muslim allies, and would help Muslim extremists recruit from inside the country.

That would suggest that growing calls for sharia law and sympathy for terrorists in the muslim community is a result of Trump... but it isn't. trump is not creating this problem, he is offering solutions to fix it. No one else is.

a reply to: UKTruth

All I'm saying is Trump's idea to ban Muslims is a bad one. A better idea would be to encourage Muslim reform. You can't say no one else is offering solutions. Banning all Muslims is just not the right idea.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: UKTruth

All I'm saying is Trump's idea to ban Muslims is a bad one. A better idea would be to encourage Muslim reform. You can't say no one else is offering solutions. Banning all Muslims is just not the right idea.

I have not really heard any other solutions - Cruz is starting to copy Trump more and more on this, but it's all leading to the same place. Shut the border to new Muslims, improve screening and take time to figure out what to do with the hatred already in the US Citizen population of muslims.

a reply to: UKTruth

A temporary ban on Muslims is not a solution. It's a timeout for Trump to get caught up on the issues. It does nothing to secure our future.

Hatred is an infection of the heart and mind. That's where the change needs to happen. Hearts and minds.

I pasted this in another thread, so forgive me, but this is a real solution with a real future.


Muslim Reform Movement
from: muslimreformmovement.org...

• Peace: We reject interpretations of Islam that call for any violence, social injustice and politicized Islam. We invite our fellow Muslims and neighbors to join us.

• Human Rights: We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.

• Secular Governance: We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. Every individual has the right to publicly express criticism of Islam. Ideas do not have rights. Human beings have rights.

• We stand for peace, human rights and secular governance. Please stand with us!

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: UKTruth

A temporary ban on Muslims is not a solution. It's a timeout for Trump to get caught up on the issues. It does nothing to secure our future.

Hatred is an infection of the heart and mind. That's where the change needs to happen. Hearts and minds.

I pasted this in another thread, so forgive me, but this is a real solution with a real future.


Muslim Reform Movement
from: muslimreformmovement.org...

• Peace: We reject interpretations of Islam that call for any violence, social injustice and politicized Islam. We invite our fellow Muslims and neighbors to join us.

• Human Rights: We reject bigotry, oppression and violence against all people based on any prejudice, including ethnicity, gender, language, belief, religion, sexual orientation and gender expression.

• Secular Governance: We are for secular governance, democracy and liberty. Every individual has the right to publicly express criticism of Islam. Ideas do not have rights. Human beings have rights.

• We stand for peace, human rights and secular governance. Please stand with us!

Very noble - but do you think this is going to solve the immediate problem of terrorists killing people all over the world right now?

originally posted by: UKTruth
Very noble - but do you think this is going to solve the immediate problem of terrorists killing people all over the world right now?

I would say the immediate problem is covered by the Pentagon, Homeland Security, NSA, CIA, and FBI.... not to mention our Military. Elevating the U.S. to police state for Muslims sounds like the last step right before Police State for all.

We need to work on the hearts and minds.

If even a fraction of the effort put into climate change awareness was put into Muslim Reform awareness, we could start seeing real change, real influence, which could be the start of a much more peaceful world.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

originally posted by: UKTruth
Very noble - but do you think this is going to solve the immediate problem of terrorists killing people all over the world right now?

I would say the immediate problem is covered by the Pentagon, Homeland Security, NSA, CIA, and FBI.... not to mention our Military. Elevating the U.S. to police state for Muslims sounds like the last step right before Police State for all.

We need to work on the hearts and minds.

If even a fraction of the effort put into climate change awareness was put into Muslim Reform awareness, we could start seeing real change, real influence, which could be the start of a much more peaceful world.

Hearts and minds?

Try telling that to the families of the dead in San Bernadino or the thousands of families who lost relatives at the WTC or the families of the Brussels attack, or Paris, or Charlie Hebdo or London...
Where was the Pentagon, the FBI, the CIA, MI6, Homeland Security, NATO , military etc as all thos epeople were dying?

The time of hearts and minds is long gone. Where has the Muslim community been all this time? Why are they not out in their thousands marching to totally disavow. There has been the odd protest but nothing sustained and nothing with the kind of numbers that would lead me to believe the muslin community is taking this as seriously as it should.

Hearts and minds! Whilst we do that, meanwhile more will die.

New evidence surfacing that, as suspected, people were paid to protest against Trump

Paid Protesters

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: yuppa

We are a signatory which places us in a position of not acting against the treaty under other treaties (particularly the Vienna Convention) that have been ratified and yes, the United States has officially chosen to cooperate with the Court under President Obama, and no, we don't have to submit anything to the Senate to cooperate and work with the ICC or to abide by other treaties that have been ratified by the Senate that we will honor UN proclamations and not work to undermine them.

One hundred and twenty five nations, including all of Europe and our allies are hardly a "kangaroo court."

The majority of what used to be called "the free world" is party to the Rome Statute, and like it or not, the United States is judged by these criteria for war crimes whether we consider ourselves "subject to them" or not.

And under the Rome accords and other international law torture and targeting non-combatants are both clearly war crimes.

If we pursue those means to an end, we are guilty and will be held to account, late or soon.

Terrorist are not non coms though they are illegal and anyone helping them also is the same. Obama may co operate but we still dont abid e by all thei r decisions otherwise bush and others would b e in th e hague righ t now correct?
When a republican gets in they will stop co operating with those whiny pussies who ar emore concerned abou t themselves than their people.

Pray I never get elected to president one day the days of playing the nice guy would be over. NA dI dlike to see th erest of th eworld try to make us hold to account. Wed take em all down with us and thye know it.