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originally posted by: antibyte
There is no such company registered in germany according to the official database.
And the german watermark has wrong grammar, maybe translated with google.
originally posted by: StargateSG7
originally posted by: pteridine
a reply to: StargateSG7
I am a real engineer. This process, as described, makes no sense. It is not even a good scam so I think it is just a joke.
Then as a scientist, please refute with detailed chemistry issues..ergo
gimme the chemical reactions that would occur during polymerization
with heat, catalysts such as Ferric Oxide, Sodium BiCarbonate,
Sodium Hydroxide, and the Chlorates, Chlorides and Chlorine gasses
that are produced/consumed, and also detail the approximate
caloric consumption/production of the chemical processes involved.
We need to know if there is NET USABLE energy from the
combined solar array inputs, seawater pyrolysis, capilliary-based
piping seawater ingestion pumps, and other material inputs/outputs.
AS I BELIEVE IN THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD, I would rather have
evidence of Experimental Disproof rather than conjectural disproof.
On a technical basis, if the engineers (i.e. real phsyicists, a nuclear and
organic chemist, mechanical systems and process engineers and MSCEE's)
think there might be something to this, we can always run a very basic
computer simulation to see if there is a NET caloric output.
.
2nd Law of Thermodynamics indicates to me a slight NET output
as the PROBABLE outcome (i.e. as inputs from the sun via solar mirror array)
in order to produce short-chain and long-chain hydrocarbons. There is a LOT
of energy in a beam of light and conversion of that light into heat for
pyrolysis and chemical catalytic conversions seems POSSIBLE but the
key factor is.....WILL THE COST OF BUILDING, ALL MATERIAL INPUTS
AND PERSONNEL MAKE IT FINANCIALLY WORTHWHILE?
.
I have NO CLUE...but I WILL try to find out!
.
I personally DO NOT have the chemistry expertise
nor the engineering expertise to make ANY definitive
statement BUT I do know people who AS A TEAM CAN
make that determination!
.
NO PROMISES AS TO OUTCOME but we'll see sometime next week!
Solar processes don't work at least 12 hours a day,
originally posted by: StargateSG7
a reply to: pteridine
===
RE:
"The watermark is Sud Deutsch and not Hoch Deutsch, which is a bit
unusual but also hints that this is ein großer Schabernack."
I agree Sud Deutsch (i.e. Bavarian) seems to operative here
in terms of the watermark but that only makes it an issue
of the GEOGRAPHIC SOURCE of the document (fake or not!)
which would be SOMEWHERE in Southern Germany.
Which means the document could be nothing more
than Schweinne Sheisse (sorry my bad translation!)
...
NOW ... this being ATS...I must raise the POSSIBILITY of
an INTENTIONAL misdirection of an upcoming technology
that has been leaked. I think many of us can agree that
using bio-process for petroleum products seems infeasable
at this time...but as noted above by another poster about
using a purely CHEMICAL process using cabonates and
chlorides/chlorates and iron oxides, I THINK we on
ATS MAY HAVE ACCIDENTALLY stumbled on a TRULY
WORKABLE process of seawater pyrolysis and
chemically-based polymerization to create
short-chain and long-chain hydrocarbons!
Again, I will show our engineers this
thread and see what THEY have to say!
I will also ask a local organic chemist
from our university that I know to
see if he can do a quick and dirty
real-world experiment just to test
the theories postulated here.
It will be an after-hours experiment
using the labs and engineers I have
access to in exchange for some beer
and steak so it can't hurt to ask!
I'm willing to put up the beer and steak money!
So let's see what multi-degree eggheads have to say!
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: pteridine
Solar processes don't work at least 12 hours a day,
Yeah but do you remember that space mirror Russia is sending up. That could direct solar light to any part of the world day or night.
originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: TechniXcality
I think the point of this technology is that it will be the death bell for the Oil corporations and the end of the so-called oil economy.
The cheap cost per barrel is a red herring, as the cost of the resulting pollution will attractb a higher than barrel cost to clean up and will probably attract heafty carbon taxes etc.
But it will herald the end of the oil economy and will prevent untold war and suffering in the ME as is currently the situation.
If i had stocks in Oil...i'd get out yesterday.
originally posted by: pteridine
originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: TechniXcality
I think the point of this technology is that it will be the death bell for the Oil corporations and the end of the so-called oil economy.
The cheap cost per barrel is a red herring, as the cost of the resulting pollution will attractb a higher than barrel cost to clean up and will probably attract heafty carbon taxes etc.
But it will herald the end of the oil economy and will prevent untold war and suffering in the ME as is currently the situation.
If i had stocks in Oil...i'd get out yesterday.
Making fuels from atmospheric CO2 is carbon neutral. Existing technology can probably produce synthetic fuels from CO2 at about $160-200/bbl.
originally posted by: StargateSG7
originally posted by: pteridine
originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: TechniXcality
I think the point of this technology is that it will be the death bell for the Oil corporations and the end of the so-called oil economy.
The cheap cost per barrel is a red herring, as the cost of the resulting pollution will attractb a higher than barrel cost to clean up and will probably attract heafty carbon taxes etc.
But it will herald the end of the oil economy and will prevent untold war and suffering in the ME as is currently the situation.
If i had stocks in Oil...i'd get out yesterday.
Making fuels from atmospheric CO2 is carbon neutral. Existing technology can probably produce synthetic fuels from CO2 at about $160-200/bbl.
===
Actually, the costs I have been quoted are MUCH
cheaper when amortized over jus ONE YEAR.
Here is my basic, very generallized and
with many rounding errors math:
Monocrystalline Solar Pannel Module 400 Watts
with Built-in High Quality Inverters and
Long-Duration solar modules (25 Year Warranty)
Bulk-Price $310.00 at 12,500 panels for
5 megawatts/hr = $3.875 Million Dollars
One Litre of Ocean Water 25 Degrees
centigrade South Pacific Warm Oceam Water
To boil ALL the water to steam
Energy = 2256 kJ/kg x 0.998 kg = 2251 kJ = 0.625 kW-hr and then
add AVERAGE 20% energy conversion loss ( x 1.2) = 0.750 Kw-hr
= 6.67 Million Litres of water per hour flash-steamed.
Gross multi-compound content of South Pacific Ocean water = 3% of weight.
There are about 907 Kilograms in one US ton
Bicarbonate HCO3 conten of ocean water is 145 ppm
or 0.41 of 3% salinity per kilogram (about 1 litre) of
seawater concentrate or 0.012% per kilogram of
seawater or 12 grams of bicarbonate per kilo
or 0.423288 ounces per kilo of seawater or
383 ounces (23.9 Pounds) per US ton.
Gross Hydrocarbon Conversion is
175,722.75 pounds per hour (300 lbs per barrel)
or 585 Barrels per hour or 7,025 barrels per day
using 5 megawatts per hour (12 hour day).
So, in order to get the Oil-From-Seawater production to 20 million Barrels per Day
at 12 hours of sunlight per day using Electrolysis you need 14.22 Gigawatts of
solar panels or about $10.31 Billion Dollars worth of Solar Panels.
SO ON A FINANCIAL BASIS, A LARGE INDUSTRIAL CONCERN
COULD DO THIS TYPE OF INVESTMENT and recover their costs
within only one month or less at $15.00 per barrel bulk sales price!
Ocean Concentrate Data Source:
www.seafriends.org.nz...
So on a financial basis MAYBE THIS ISN'T SUCH A BAD IDEA!
No NORMAL person could do this but a large industrial company
like GE or Google COULD EASILY afford 10 billion dollars in initial
UPFRONT investment costs and then rake in a proft after only
a month of operations at $15.00 a barrel!
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: StargateSG7
Um. It's been done.
news.discovery.com...
originally posted by: StargateSG7
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: StargateSG7
Um. It's been done.
news.discovery.com...
outlined the link that VERY ARTICLE in previous posts,
but in this case the Navy used straight Electrolysis
from normal industrial power sources.
I was trying to figure out costs from usage
of Solar Panels or Solar Mirror Arrays instead
of expensive and polluting power plants.
AND I should ALSO point out that we don't have
to just get OIL and GAS from this but we could
also CHEAPLY GET Carbon Fibre/Carbon nanotubes
by the BILLIONS OF TONS which would start a
materials science revolution with Cars bodies,
airplanes, bicyles, sporting goods, clothing,
shoes/boots, phones even computers being
made FULLY out of ultra-strong and lightweight
carbon fibre and/or carbon nanotubes/graphene
obtained from the CO2 stored by the MANY
BILLIONS OF TONS in ocean seawater!
originally posted by: pteridine
The watermark is Sud Deutsch and not Hoch Deutsch, which is a bit unusual but also hints that this is ein großer Schabernack.