Speaking in tongues Real, or BS?

a reply to: LittleByLittle

I guess you could say that; however, I find that the idea of kundalini is too impersonal to be associated with the living presence of God. Depersonalisation is an Eastern aim, in terms of spirituality. In the western traditions, mainly in Christianity but also in occult traditions, personal sovereignty is acknowledged & valued. Being suffused & overwhelmed with the presence of God, through some form of devotional contemplation, seems very different to killing the ego, allowing some impersonal force (kundalini) to take over you, and embracing the void....

a reply to: network dude

If you consider some incoherent rambling gibberish as "speaking", then I guess. Is a three month old babbling "speaking"? I guess it is to them. It's not a recognized language though.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Thanks for the reply. I am a mason, but I have a belief in God that existed long before masonry entered my life. This subject has always been a burr in my saddle, but I went with a "to each his own" mentality until I saw this article. I guess I am finally curious enough to want to hear opinions on it.

Thanks again for your thoughts on this.

a reply to: UnBreakable

My 15 month old grandson sure has his own language. But as incoherent as it may be, when he want's Papa to turn the TV to "his" channel, there is no misunderstanding the conversation. Be it babble or not.

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: network dude
I know a guy who swears that he sees dragons.

Yeah, I've known a few people who have sworn to have seen dragons in the midst of a trance like state.

I was guilted into going to church not so long ago for my 16 year old sisters baptism, the way those brain washed "believers" where acting when the music was playing was astounding... all they needed was a strobe light and the atmosphere would have been indistinguishable from a full blown rave.

Talking in tongues is simply really good evidence of how easily a persons perception of reality can be manipulated and distorted.

Interesting question - I struggle with this concept a bit too. I've never spoken I tongues but I know people that do. I've never seen them do it at church but know it is sometime part of their private worship and prayer time.

There was a study done not too long ago of people speaking in tongues while getting a brain scan. It was reported that the areas of the brain responsible for language shut down while speaking in tongues - but illuminated when singing worship music or praying (not in tongues). This supports the experience that people report - that the "words" are not their own and although conscious they don't control their vocalizations.

This study gives legitimacy to the experience from the perspective of the individual - but it does not say anything about the true source of the tongues. It is not proof that it is from the Holy Spirit.

I'll try to dig up a link to the study...

Link : www.nytimes.com...

I'm curious if anyone speaking in tongs is speaking an actual language. Is it supposed to be a language only God and the angels can understand or can it be translated into English (or whatever language the congregation speaks) and does the person speaking in tongues, know what they are saying.

Anyone can speak gobbledygook, I've done it before and it can feel and seem profound.

a reply to: network dude

To me, this being overcome and stricken into a trance like state, speaking in "angelic tongues" or foreign language is not what Jesus taught. It's worthless.

This is what Jesus taught on the subject of the "Holy Spirit" taking control of one's "tongue", in my opinion:

Matthew 10:19
When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour.

Exodus 4:12
Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say.

a reply to: network dude

I have been to several born again Christian masses. Other denominations as well that "speak in tongues" as well.

It is BS IMO. They just get into a frenzy and slap their tongues around to make baby noises and such. I can almost pin point the source material they are inspired by from movies to popular culture.

Its an evolving mass hysteria and mass lie.

No one suddenly speaks French or Chinese so as to spread the word of Christ. THAT is what was implied by speaking in tongues. They somehow magically learned other languages so as to teach foreigners who had not heard the word.

They did not invent languages based on babble that others understood. They did not just go crazy and blab noises on the floor according to the scriptures.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

however, I find that the idea of kundalini is too impersonal to be associated with the living presence of God.

Interesting, since Kundalini is your own personal spirit(depending on who you talk to).

Depersonalisation is an Eastern aim, in terms of spirituality. In the western traditions, mainly in Christianity but also in occult traditions, personal sovereignty is acknowledged & valued.

Even more interesting, since Christianity is all about "depersonalization". "More of god, less of me. Thy will, not mine be done. Being an empty vessel for his service. We are alive in Christ, because we also died in him." and so on.

Being suffused & overwhelmed with the presence of God, through some form of devotional contemplation, seems very different to killing the ego, allowing some impersonal force (kundalini) to take over you, and embracing the void....

Being suffused and overwhelmed? Sounds just like kundalini, and sounds just as "impersonal" and "depersonalized". Isn't that what being a Christian is all about? Dying to self? Just because it doesn't have the name Jesus attached doesn't make it wrong or impersonal.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

After a few double Bourbons I can attest that it is in fact real. For me anyway.

Probably just as unintelligible for everyone else that heard me as what Ted and his old man said when they prayed.

Yeah or men wearing aprons and white gloves and playing with knots and ropes around necks. Its all a matter of perspective.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
Yeah or men wearing aprons and white gloves and playing with knots and ropes around necks. Its all a matter of perspective.

We still speak in understandable English though. Even after all the Bourbon.

Cool Thread.
When i was 14 (ish) my mom took me to Toledo to visit a friend of hers. She was more or less a non-blood related aunt...Kids my age, my moms best friend, Very religious, like my mom.

I was a bit of a problem child and i had recently been in trouble...don't remember what for probably smoking cigerattes or listening to Metallica, lol.

Anywho, we'll call he "D".. after a long boring day of hanging out in Toledo, we were getting ready to hit the road to head home and D asked me to come into the laundry room, because she wanted to pray with me. OOOOK.

So we go in there and she explains that the Holy Spirit occasionally grants folks gifts in which they will use to spread Gods message and there are various forms but she has been given the gift of tongues. OOOOK.

So she puts her hand on my shoulder and starts praying out loud and after a few seconds she flips in to the babble...
After a few second of babble, her voice lowered, she switched back to English, and I poop you not said "Steamy Jeans, This is Jesus"... so that caught me attention. Jesus went on to tell me that been i had been effin up and that he has a plan for me and such. S/He mentioned a few things that at the time i didn't see how she would know, but in hindsight she probably just made good guesses, being the delinquent that i was...Whole thing lasted about 10 minutes and it was over.

Fast forward a few months and i'm at bible camp. I tell this story to my cabin and my counselor immediately grabs a bible, flips to the OT, i think Leviticus? Maybe Ecclesiastes? I dont remember.. basically he showed and told me that one on one tongue speaking like that is clearly NOT from the Holy Spirit and either she was full of it or channeling something not so Holy...
So obviously as a punk kid i was glad to rub that one in moms face....lol.

Anyway thats my experience.She sure thought it was real. I dont know what i thought, i was pretty weirded out by it, and I felt more of a negative vibe than positive during it..which seems odd...If Jesus was in the room talking to me shouldn't i be filled with love and light? Maybe it was my own demons rejecting it that gave me that bad vibes.. who knows?

Funny how even Christians can't agree on its reality, and even further when it is appropriate and not...

a reply to: SteamyJeans

If these people were against Metallica back then, they were the Blasphemers!

Back when Cliff was alive and they played for the beer and the stage high, they were as close to heavenly as it gets.
After and during the black album, they sold out, became douche bags, and lost all Heaven like qualities.

So I'd say take all that into consideration when evaluating the holiness of that point in time.

Read the instructions here given in one of the letters to the Corinthians

There is a tongue to be interpreted, one that can't, and one that needs no interpretation because it is understood in the language of the hearer as in Acts 2. The instructions are clear where and when and how it is to be done.

Any church that practices this without following these instructions is in disobedient to the Scriptures. And it cannot be an Act of the Holy Ghost because God cannot break his own commands

1Cor 14:1 ¶ Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6 ¶ Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 ¶ What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 ¶ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26 ¶ How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 ¶ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 ¶ What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

LOL good point.
In their defense, this was right around the time that Re-Load came out...So, ya know...They may have been on to something.. 16 years later and it's all finally in perspective! Thanks, Dude.
a reply to: network dude

originally posted by: SteamyJeans

Fast forward a few months and i'm at bible camp. I tell this story to my cabin and my counselor immediately grabs a bible, flips to the OT, i think Leviticus? Maybe Ecclesiastes? I dont remember.. basically he showed and told me that one on one tongue speaking like that is clearly NOT from the Holy Spirit and either she was full of it or channeling something not so Holy...

I have a distinct memory as a (maybe around) 4 year old kid, of being woken up in the middle of the night and taken into the lounge room, where this loony psychopath put his hands on my head and started praying. After a minute or two, he was yelling full blown gibberish nonsense and squeezing my head to the point that it hurt... I don't know what the motivation was, but I'm convinced it never did me any good,,, and if I was going to entertain the whole supernatural aspect (which I personally don't believe in), I would say he did nothing but invite something evil into my realm..

lol, then people wonder why I think Christians are just a bunch of mentally unstable individuals, who are in urgent need of immediate treatment... for the sake and welfare of their offspring.

Acts. That may have been where counselor went... I thought it was OT, maybe not...
But yes that's basically what he said, there needs to be a speaker, interpreter, and "receiver"....so 3 people minimum.

It's funny because "D" and her family to this day are some of the most humble, "Godly" people i have met..yet according to her own bible she's channeling something unholy.. and counselor who warned me of such, ended up drowning in a sea of alcoholism and infidelity..

Not funny, i guess...ironic? I dont know...
a reply to: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: SteamyJeans
LOL good point.
In their defense, this was right around the time that Re-Load came out...So, ya know...They may have been on to something.. 16 years later and it's all finally in perspective! Thanks, Dude.
a reply to: network dude

in that case, they may have been on to something.

Firstly I should state that I HATE the Catholic Church, the Christian faith and all denominations. As well as all other Churches and Faiths (Judaism/Islam).

Nothing against THE PEOPLE within the Church, only the Churches themselves.

My hatred for the Catholic Church stems from the fact that I have been 'spiritually attacked' for many years since turning 30, because my name is Samuel and I was unfortunate to randomly choose the confirmation name 'Sabbas'.

Being 'Samuel Sabbas' made me a target for some types of entities/spirits aligned with the Roman Catholic Church.

I sought the help of the Catholic Church countless times, but they avoid me AT ALL COSTS! They seem to be scared s#$tless of me. If you know who Samael Sabaoth is, you'll understand why.

So my wish for them to try free me of their helpers spiritual attacks, turned to rage at them not only ignoring me hoping I will go away, but treating me like I am evil because of my name.

They are the ones attacking me, and they think me evil because I get angry and fight back.

Anyway ... I speak other languages I don't understand.

But this is not 'me' persay speaking them.

Another consciousness wells up inside me (usually in pure rage) and spits out VERY REAL sentences in different languages.

I speak other languages (that I don't know) when I need to. Without knowing a single word of that language.

I sought help from Thai Buddhist monks, thinking they could help remove the 'attachments' I had gained. When I was explaining to them what had been happening I didn't realise that they didn't speak a word of English. One of them turned to the other one and said something in Thai and they both laughed at me.

Something took hold inside of me and I spat a few sentences at then angrily in Thai. I don't speak Thai!

I knew exactly what I said to them though. I said, "Don't speak about me as if I'm not standing right in front of you! I am the seed!"

And they understood it! They stopped laughing straight away, and the one I was speaking with seemed a little embarrassed to have been caught out.

I've spoken (Australian) Aboriginal to a Aboriginal man at a shopping centre once.

I've spoken what I KNOW is Italian. Though I don't know Italian. I recognised some of the words which I was saying.

I speak Latin, but again. I only recognise part.

Other languages I believe to be some type of Sumerian (or similar) dead language.

And one very sweet and melodic sounding language that I think is Akkadian. Though the one who takes over me to speak it (female) refers to herself as being 'Sinian'.

Apparently, the reason I speak Italian and all the other languages, is because those I 'host' in my body, that take over to speak these languages, are supposed to be speaking with the Roman Catholic Church. To give them direction, and messages/orders.

I'm supposed to be a conduit/messenger for them, so they can fix the things which are wrong with the Church.

They know this very well (because I've told them) but they ignore me.

They ask for 'signs from God' and they were given them (Google: Strange 'S'-shaped radar phenomenon appears off WA), this just made them seem more afraid of me.

So to answer your question ...

Yes! Talking in tongues is very real. But NO! It's not what they do in the Church. They are 'trying' to do it, but they are NOT!

If they could really talk in tongues, they would be able to speak REAL languages. This is the purpose of 'talking in tongues'.

So I could sit at a table at the Vatican, surrounded by their representatives from all countries, and speak any language I needed to, to deliver the message.

That's the purpose of it. It's for the messengers.

And most messengers are NOT WITH THE CHURCH. Therefore, I doubt that anyone within the Church, ANY CHURCH, speaks in tongues.