Does my boiler defy the laws of physics?

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: nonspecific


Ya'll call them "Heating engineers" across the pond?


We call them plumbers! Anyhow, if he was there and you paid him, make him come back and really fix it!

Reminds me when I got out of the military and could only find a job pumping gas, when anyone asked me what I did for a living, I told them I was a "petroleum engineer"!

A qualified Plumber can install bathrooms, sinks and toilets etc, here in the U.K

Heating engineers deal with gas and boilers and have to be Gas Safe registered.

Nonspecific, I do not have a clue why the temperature is dropping the way it is and if he used an analyser which did not detect a problem, has it been calibrated recently? If it hasn't the analyser could be faulty.

I work in construction training and I will ask a Gas assessor I know, if he has any idea.

he checked it twice and then a third time to show me it was coming out at the right temp and then used a thermometer in front of me as well to show that the boiler was working as it should. Thanks for asking I have asked 2 other plumbers and they also say they have never known such a massive drop over such a short distance.

Is it one of those combined things where it runs the bath or you pull a thing and you get water going to the shower,? if so it may need calibrating or whatever is needed, on ours you can pop the side of the right handle where you select the temperature and with a allen key adjust it but when we've had our annual gas safety check they've said that if it goes out of bounds by more than so much they have to replace it (housing association and its considered cheaper to replace than repair by the bosses)

Should also say that badly bodged pipework is always a first choice thing especially when you start to chase it down and find that with a fivers worth of flexi pipe you can rip out about a mile of ancient copper pipe work and put a lot of money into the beer kitty

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: nonspecific

The don't have to fell cold to the touch. It will act like a heat sink. If the wall is a lower temp than the pipe, the heat will bleed off into the wall and be dispersed.

Yes I understand that but we are talking about 22 degrees C or about 72 degrees F over 6 feet?? The pipe is about 3inches away from the wall and the wall is cavity. will take a look though.

I do not think that the problem here is the pipe location or insulation since the OP is reporting that things were fine up until a month or so ago. The pipe has not been changed prior to the problem so I would rule that out. Is it possible some rats have gone in and chewed up all the pipe insulation along a cold exterior wall and that is the reason, well it could happen but the poster has indicated that all taps are affected and are located in areas that use internal and external wall located pipe runs.
I think the most likely answer is that he has a cold water crossover issue.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: nonspecific

The don't have to fell cold to the touch. It will act like a heat sink. If the wall is a lower temp than the pipe, the heat will bleed off into the wall and be dispersed.

a reply to: nonspecific

if its not his job to figure that out...then who would you call to determine why you are losing heat across an expanse of pipe?

a reply to: nonspecific

So what kind of faucet do you have? Single handle or separate valves at the sink for hot and cold?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: nonspecific

if its not his job to figure that out...then who would you call to determine why you are losing heat across an expanse of pipe?

As I said earlier we have 2 distinct trades for heating and hot water.

Gas engineers install and service/repair gas central heating/water boilers and Plumbers install central heating radiators, sinks, showers, toilets ect and deal with waste water.

As the man today was a heating engineer and he established that the boiler was working correctly it now falls to a plumber to deal with the issue of pipework.

We do get Plumbers who are also gas engineers but it is not that common.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: nonspecific

So what kind of faucet do you have? Single handle or separate valves at the sink for hot and cold?

All mixer taps, 2 sinks 1 shower and 1 bath, all less than a couple of years old and of the same manufacturer.

a reply to: nonspecific

Yeah. Anything I know won't help. You guys have dogs delivering mail, and mailmen chasing the cats.

Just a link you may find interesting: Cold Water Crossover
This is a common problem.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: nonspecific

So what kind of faucet do you have? Single handle or separate valves at the sink for hot and cold?

All mixer taps, 2 sinks 1 shower and 1 bath, all less than a couple of years old and of the same manufacturer.

That's your problem then!

What's the warranty on those taps? Bet ya money they are out of warranty! Planned Obsolescence in action.

Damned shame a Boiler Engineer couldn't figure that one out.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: nonspecific

So what kind of faucet do you have? Single handle or separate valves at the sink for hot and cold?

All mixer taps, 2 sinks 1 shower and 1 bath, all less than a couple of years old and of the same manufacturer.

They sell o-ring kits from the manufacturer (at least most of them do over here) to rebuild the internal mixing valve. When the o-rings start to leak, they bypass cold water into the hot side. Your fixtures are not that old, but some will go bad quickly due to the quality of your water breaking down the o-rings, or if you have any scale deposits breaking loose from the inside of any supply piping (including any municipal supply piping), that can have a detrimental effect on the o-rings also.

a reply to: nonspecific

something weird is going on. ghosts

a reply to: nonspecific

something weird is going on. ghosts

If the temperature change over both the kitchen tap and the bathroom tap is approximately the same, there is only one solution left, as others have mentioned. It has to be the taps. Perhaps they came from the same batch?

originally posted by: evc1shop
Just a link you may find interesting: Cold Water Crossover
This is a common problem.

actually, that is a good link.

The circulation pump is something I wouldn't have thought would be in a residential unit...but its possible. Regardless, all those issues could be at play.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Dweebsquad
Well according to the first Law of Thermodynamics, the change in heat minus the change in l work should equal the change internal energy, pipe insulation or something could be the cause, or you might live on top of a mountian, oh well it certianly isn't breaking any laws

So how does the maths work out then.

Temp at point A is 64 degrees Celsius. temp at point B is 41.8 degrees Celsius. lenght of pipe is just under 6 feet and made of copper (.7mm) temperature of room was 12 degrees Celsius.

It depends on how long you let the water run from point A to point B, which you don't seem to have mentioned. That drop doesn't sound unusual if you're not letting the water run, it takes a while for all the cold water to be displaced and even longer for the copper pipe to heat up. The temp at point B should start out cooler like that and gradually increase the longer you let the water run until it's nearly the same as at point A, maybe slightly less.

a reply to: nonspecific

There's no chance, I assume, that the water coming out of your tap is some how mingling with cold water from elsewhere in your system?

a reply to: nonspecific
Was the temperature of the pipe checked just before the faucet or only the water coming out?

You might have adjustable controls inside the fixtures to limit the temp.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: evc1shop
Just a link you may find interesting: Cold Water Crossover
This is a common problem.

actually, that is a good link.

The circulation pump is something I wouldn't have thought would be in a residential unit...but its possible. Regardless, all those issues could be at play.

Correct, you usually only have circulators on domestic hot water systems when it is a commercial building like and apartment complex where there are long runs of piping between the hot water source (the heater) and the taps. If you don't circulate the water through the loop, the water will get cold in the piping, resulting in a long wait for hot water when you open the faucet.