Why does everyone hate the middle classes?

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: crazyewok
But why?

Happy, comfortable people don't hate the system.

Well this one does for a start so...

OK. As a general rule, they don't. People who are happy and comfortable don't generally sit around angry and bitter about the system that made that possible. If you're looking for those kinds of people you will usually find them in larger numbers among the ranks of people who feel that the system screwed them over.

These are people who...

1. Are often/usually unemployed and/or have a long criminal record.

2. People who did not get a good education and/or people who took out a large loan to pay for an education that didn't pan out.

3. People who are living on government money.

Now don't get me wrong. Honestly, I don't necessarily blame people for taking the path of least resistance. We're all individuals and for some people that's the only way they're going to survive. I get that. I think it's bad policy to make it routine but I get it from the welfare recipient's POV. Some people are just plain out of options and SOL.

But the point here is that if you want a socialist state in a capitalist country, it's not in your best interest to have a large, comfortable, happy middle class that will be loyal to the system that sustains them. Poor, disenfranchised people are the lifeblood of the Marxists. Or pretty much anyone who can push their buttons.

a reply to: crazyewok

Oh cry me a river with the lame troll claims lol
You are bleating like a victim and making out that the 'middle class' are under more attack from the government than other social groups. Bull#.
A mate of mine owns a couple of hundred properties which he rents out but next financial year the government are removing the tax relief on mortgage interest so it's going to cost him tens of thousands.
The government are hitting everyone with 'austerity', just you only hear the likes of you whinging...landlords paying thousands extra doesn't make the news though.

You had a cup of tea with Jeremy Corbyn this afternoon or something?

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: nonspecific

Which begs the queation of why should I be resented?

Plus the # that hits my small group has a habit of trickling down to the lower groups anyway.

I am not saying that it is right just that people will not care as you are doing alright, single bloke on 50k plus a year might have to pay a grand extra in tax?

Go tell a forklift driver or some bloke stacking the shelves in Tesco and see if he cares.

He will more than likely grin like a Cheshire cat.

Which is short sighted and foolish.

There is not much diffrence between ME and the lower earners except a slightly nicer car, one holiday a year, mortgage instead of rent for likley a similar size house and I get my shopping via tesco not lidle .

I have more in common with the minimum wage earners than a million or billionaire.

That's why the left FAIL in this country. They are too busy focusing on the harmless groups like ME rather than attacking the real culprits.

Just because your closer to the bottom than the top does not make you in the same boat though mate.

60k per annum after NI, income tax and student loan(that gave you the ability to earn 60 per annum) leaves £735.35 a week

Minimum wage is £12,675.00 per annum after tax and NI(assuming no university education) leaving £225.12 a week.

Now both of the above examples still pay the same for fuel, food, rent/mortgage, utilities ect yet even though the guy that earns 60k pays more tax he still takes home more in a week than the other guy does in 3 weeks.

As I said before I really do not think the shelf stacker's who work physically harder under worse conditions than you will be outraged at your predicament.

For the record do not think that I resent your status, I am just saying it as I think it will be perceived by the majority of the population.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

This is about taxation and the perception of the middle classes pal, nothing to do with lefty righty politics.

a reply to: nonspecific

No im not in the same boat but its still a boat not a cruise ship.

Instead of trying to alienate my group we should be standing together to oppose the goverment and make life better for all.

Not pick on each other and laugh like GOS is trying to do.

a reply to: nonspecific

#ing bleating about nothing, tax is easy to lawfully negotiate just too lazy to make the effort.
Tough luck then, the amount of time whining on ATS so far could have set a limited company up and created a platform to save loads of cash.
Lame.

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: BrianFlanders

This is about taxation and the perception of the middle classes pal, nothing to do with lefty righty politics.

No he has a point.

I think the goverment like the lower earners to focus on the Middle income group as it takes the heat of them and there corporate overlords doing the real dodgy #.

They are worried if we stood together we might be able to create a society better to us rather than "them".

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: crazyewok
I have more in common with the minimum wage earners than a million or billionaire.

Bollocks, when did you last fret about having to top up a pre-pay gas key with a tenner you really need?
You are making yourself out some kind of poor victim and I say that's bull#.

I know plenty of people on minimum wage who struggle every day but don't whinge like you do.
Lame.

I had a mate who works 70 hours as a chef, single bloke owns his own 2 bed house come round just the other day begging for a 20 quid loan till Friday to put some electric on so he could iron his whites.

It is I thhink easy to forget quite how little some of the hardest working people out there actually have to survive on.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: BrianFlanders

This is about taxation and the perception of the middle classes pal, nothing to do with lefty righty politics.

No he has a point.

I think the goverment like the lower earners to focus on the Middle income group as it takes the heat of them and there corporate overlords doing the real dodgy #.

Fair point agreed.

They are worried if we stood together we might be able to create a society better to us rather than "them".

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

#ing bleating about nothing, tax is easy to lawfully negotiate just too lazy to make the effort.
Tough luck then, the amount of time whining on ATS so far could have set a limited company up and created a platform to save loads of cash.
Lame.

/sigh

Your ranting embaressing now as you clearly have not read what I have said or even get the point of the conversation.

The factoid im already set up as my own company and so can claim back tax.

My complaint is the goverment stopping that and other legal tax reclaiming methods while ignoring themselves and there corporate overlords.

originally posted by: crazyewok
I think the goverment like the lower earners to focus on the Middle income group as it takes the heat of them and there corporate overlords doing the real dodgy #.

What are you on about?
Anyone and everyone can do the same 'dodgy #' as corporate beasts such as Google and Amazon, I do.
If you are too lazy to exploit the legislation then why are you whinging?

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: nonspecific

No im not in the same boat but its still a boat not a cruise ship.

Instead of trying to alienate my group we should be standing together to oppose the goverment and make life better for all.

Not pick on each other and laugh like GOS is trying to do.

I am not grain of sand.

Your boat is not leaking though, when was the last time you had 20 to last you 3 days?

a reply to: crazyewok

Nope, you just don't understand tax law very well and have failed to see how you can legally avoid it still.
Carry on whinging though, it is amusing.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: crazyewok
I have more in common with the minimum wage earners than a million or billionaire.

Bollocks, when did you last fret about having to top up a pre-pay gas key with a tenner you really need?
You are making yourself out some kind of poor victim and I say that's bull#.

I know plenty of people on minimum wage who struggle every day but don't whinge like you do.
Lame.

I had a mate who works 70 hours as a chef, single bloke owns his own 2 bed house come round just the other day begging for a 20 quid loan till Friday to put some electric on so he could iron his whites.

It is I thhink easy to forget quite how little some of the hardest working people out there actually have to survive on.

But that is not my fault, nor is taxing the £40-150k earners more going to end his plight.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: nonspecific

No im not in the same boat but its still a boat not a cruise ship.

Instead of trying to alienate my group we should be standing together to oppose the goverment and make life better for all.

Not pick on each other and laugh like GOS is trying to do.

I am not grain of sand.

Your boat is not leaking though, when was the last time you had 20 to last you 3 days?

again that is not important.

That not something I have the power or really the responsibility to fix.

a reply to: crazyewok

Oh for goodness sake just register as self-employed and mitigate the 'losses' from the tax you pay under PAYE.
The government have NOT stopped that option so I don't understand why you are whinging.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: crazyewok
I have more in common with the minimum wage earners than a million or billionaire.

Bollocks, when did you last fret about having to top up a pre-pay gas key with a tenner you really need?
You are making yourself out some kind of poor victim and I say that's bull#.

I know plenty of people on minimum wage who struggle every day but don't whinge like you do.
Lame.

I had a mate who works 70 hours as a chef, single bloke owns his own 2 bed house come round just the other day begging for a 20 quid loan till Friday to put some electric on so he could iron his whites.

It is I thhink easy to forget quite how little some of the hardest working people out there actually have to survive on.

But that is not my fault, nor is taxing the £40-150k earners more going to end his plight.

I am not saying it is your fault, just trying to point out that your boat is better than you think in comparison to that of a huge chunk of the population.

Here's a question, How many middle class IT consultants were up in arms and opposing the bedroom tax?

Not many I guess because not many IT consultants are living in social housing on low incomes or benefits.

Yet now the IT consultants are expecting those same people to be outraged at a slight tax increase???

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: crazyewok
I think the goverment like the lower earners to focus on the Middle income group as it takes the heat of them and there corporate overlords doing the real dodgy #.

What are you on about?
Anyone and everyone can do the same 'dodgy #' as corporate beasts such as Google and Amazon, I do.
If you are too lazy to exploit the legislation then why are you whinging?

I'm sorry but no.

I'm content with just claiming my travel back. And I only do that because have consecutive goverments have failed so miserably with our transport system.

I don't want to avoid the rest of my income and NI tax. I am happy to pay them. That's my social responsibility.

If your avoiding tax that bloody much then your maybe part of the problem.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: crazyewok
I have more in common with the minimum wage earners than a million or billionaire.

Bollocks, when did you last fret about having to top up a pre-pay gas key with a tenner you really need?
You are making yourself out some kind of poor victim and I say that's bull#.

I know plenty of people on minimum wage who struggle every day but don't whinge like you do.
Lame.

I had a mate who works 70 hours as a chef, single bloke owns his own 2 bed house come round just the other day begging for a 20 quid loan till Friday to put some electric on so he could iron his whites.

It is I thhink easy to forget quite how little some of the hardest working people out there actually have to survive on.

But that is not my fault, nor is taxing the £40-150k earners more going to end his plight.

I am not saying it is your fault, just trying to point out that your boat is better than you think in comparison to that of a huge chunk of the population.

Here's a question, How many middle class IT consultants were up in arms and opposing the bedroom tax?

Not many I guess because not many IT consultants are living in social housing on low incomes or benefits.

Yet now the IT consultants are expecting those same people to be outraged at a slight tax increase???

A generalisation as I was against the tax, especially for the elderly and disabled and even wrote off about it and signed a few petitions.

originally posted by: crazyewok
If your avoiding tax that bloody much then your maybe part of the problem.

Oh behave with your bull# moral outrage, I lawfully avoid as much tax as the legislation allows.
You got a problem then take it up with the government to change the law.
You're whinging about taxes but too lazy to take the time to avoid it, and now you are pulling the morality card!
So why whinge then if you are so passionate about paying the correct amount of tax?
You have contradicted yourself fella lol