Why does everyone hate the middle classes?

a reply to: crazyewok lol, thanks for the pep talk. I'm glad your such a success and have nice cars and a flat. audi a3? I don't really know anything about cars. Is that a good one? . I was always happy with my mums Toyota Yaris, nippy around town and seeing as I'm partial to the odd scrape. No point in having one of them posh cars.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Lol, the motor doesn't make the man, I drive around in my #ty 15 year old work van and I passed the online test thingy as established middle class.
I was getting pissed up in a social/council house on the weekend with old friends who don't want a job and are happy on benefits, but this weekend I'll be at a dinner party with consultant surgeons, architects, and investment bankers etc.
The whole class thing is bull# if one is able to communicate at all appropriate levels.

Trouble is that many folk can only speak council 'estate' so they'll never truly leave the estate.
I know because I left the estate thanks to my parents insistence on proper spoken language at home and other appropriate places. I can wing it in any social setting, and I've taught my son the same...even if he does speak like a chav when with his mates.

a reply to: grainofsand I'm sure your son and family will bring you far more satisfaction in your life than any wealth you gather a long the way

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: crazyewok lol, thanks for the pep talk. I'm glad your such a success and have nice cars and a flat. audi a3? I don't really know anything about cars. Is that a good one? . I was always happy with my mums Toyota Yaris, nippy around town and seeing as I'm partial to the odd scrape. No point in having one of them posh cars.

Cool thats fine.

If your happy with what you got cool beans.

I just dont want people takeing whats MINE and what I EARNED.

Live how you like.

I just hate it when Im forced to live how they want me to live. And im fecking pissed of with politician richer than me decideing I jphave too much money and taxing me more

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: woodwardjnr

Lol, the motor doesn't make the man, I drive around in my #ty 15 year old work van and I passed the online test thingy as established middle class.
I was getting pissed up in a social/council house on the weekend with old friends who don't want a job and are happy on benefits, but this weekend I'll be at a dinner party with consultant surgeons, architects, and investment bankers etc.
The whole class thing is bull# if one is able to communicate at all appropriate levels.

Trouble is that many folk can only speak council 'estate' so they'll never truly leave the estate.
I know because I left the estate thanks to my parents insistence on proper spoken language at home and other appropriate places. I can wing it in any social setting, and I've taught my son the same...even if he does speak like a chav when with his mates.

I also have the ability to hold my own across the board.

I am able to go from a squat to a formal function at the drop of a hat and not seem out of place, it's a handy ability especially if your a tradesman.

As I said that quiz thing put me at proletariat which is 2 steps down from working class so if I try really hard then one day I may be able to call myself poor.

On that note a mate of mine who is a scouser did the test and came up middle class and he was livid, got really angry at the though of being anything but honest working class and pulled a right hissy fit.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: crazyewok lol, thanks for the pep talk. I'm glad your such a success and have nice cars and a flat. audi a3? I don't really know anything about cars. Is that a good one? . I was always happy with my mums Toyota Yaris, nippy around town and seeing as I'm partial to the odd scrape. No point in having one of them posh cars.

Cool thats fine.

If your happy with what you got cool beans.

I just dont want people takeing whats MINE and what I EARNED.

Live how you like.

I just hate it when Im forced to live how they want me to live. And im fecking pissed of with politician richer than me decideing I jphave too much money and taxing me more

To be fair if your paye then you never actually have the tax money inthe first place as it is removed at source. You would be bettter of thinking that you get paid your net wage notyour gross one.

It's not like your self employed and have to hand over a fat chunk of your actual money every year.

Just a thought as it might help.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: grainofsand I'm sure your son and family will bring you far more satisfaction in your life than any wealth you gather a long the way

Oh definitely!
Heck, good health, a roof over my head, food in my stomach, clothes on my back, and a few people who love me is all I need to be happy.
I started out as a homeless rough-sleeping 16 year old runaway many years ago though, so my perception of 'wealth' is deeply influence by that experience I dragged my sorry arse out of.

a reply to: nonspecific

Agreed, if you can communicate appropriately at all levels then you can nail most situations.
The 'class' thing (to me) is more about that than the motor, or cash in the bank.

...and yep, I'm the same as you, just as comfortable in a squat chilling with piss-heads on benefits as I am in a champagne dinner party.
I'll still call my lazy bastard mates out for being lazy bastards though...just makes me chuckle when the 'poor' whingers from the UK on ATS bleat that nobody is lazy lol...maybe they actually believe the bull# their mates tell the DWP every week.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

Agreed, if you can communicate appropriately at all levels then you can nail most situations.
The 'class' thing (to me) is more about that than the motor, or cash in the bank.

...and yep, I'm the same as you, just as comfortable in a squat chilling with piss-heads on benefits as I am in a champagne dinner party.
I'll still call my lazy bastard mates out for being lazy bastards though...just makes me chuckle when the 'poor' whingers from the UK on ATS bleat that nobody is lazy lol...maybe they actually believe the bull# their mates tell the DWP every week.

I think the issue with the lazy whingers is that they spend so much time creating the illusion that there is no work out there and they have to be on benefits that they end up believing the lie themselves.

A bit like when you pretend to be ill and call in sick and then forget that your not really ill and end up feeling crap all day.

a reply to: nonspecific

Then I have no quarrels with him at all....

I have quarrels with people who makes millions and billions due to government favoritism and legislation, taking jobs overseas only to increase profits, when they write legislation like obamacare and the trans Pacific partnership...

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: nonspecific

Then I have no quarrels with him at all....

I have quarrels with people who makes millions and billions due to government favoritism and legislation, taking jobs overseas only to increase profits, when they write legislation like obamacare and the trans Pacific partnership...

He is so far away from that league it's ridiculous. He is doing all right as we say here in the UK.

He's just got bobs on because the difference between what he "earns" and what he actually gets in the bank at the end of the month differs greatly.

a reply to: nonspecific

Lol, he should go self employed.
I use as many legal tax-avoidance techniques as Google and Amazon.
No sick/holiday pay/minimum wage when I # a quote up/pension etc, but plenty of lawful ways to avoid tax.

The OP chooses to be an employee and by default chooses to lose any control over the tax he pays.


*Edit*
Sucker Lol x

The poor, the newly arrived immigrants, students and entry level workers just don't earn enough to be taxed heavily. Student debt, rent and VAT at 20% are enough.

The super-wealthy with over $2 milllion can afford accountants to find tax breaks, tax havens, investment portfolios and shop around for the country with the best tax breaks.

In between you have the middle classes. They earn enough that they could save enough money to become super-wealthy ($500,000 would let you move to the USA to start a business). So naturally, the government wants to make sure nobody has a pension pot greater than £250,000

Thus all the taxes, relentless raids on pensions, removal of tax relief and IR35. Heaven forbid a contractor should be able to build up a long-term relationship with a single client like the big corporations do.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

Lol, he should go self employed.
I use as many legal tax-avoidance techniques as Google and Amazon.
No sick/holiday pay/minimum wage when I # a quote up/pension etc, but plenty of lawful ways to avoid tax.

The OP chooses to be an employee and by default chooses to lose any control over the tax he pays.

*Edit*
Sucker Lol x

Agreed.

Do you pay for your mobile phone or is it offset against business use? Broadband, fuel???? spare room rented out to the business for use of?

I can sympathise with the furry one but self employed was in my opinion invented by the rich as a tax dodge and can be utilised by anyone that has the brains to do so.

originally posted by: crazyewok
I fall into that little bracket were I earn enough to live comfortble but not enough to be considered rich. My earnings put me in the 10% or the lower 1%.

So why does everyone hate me?

It's because you have enough wealth to actually fund things, but not enough to pay politicians to tax someone else.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Except I am not them.

And if you think I have no empathy ... well, I'm not the only here who doesn't.

Going by what you claim your husbands income is, you're in the top 5% before counting any income you yourself bring in.

If I remember correctly you once went on about spending I think it was $250/week on groceries and how you could barely afford to eat on that with 3 people.

Did you know that for the bottom 50%, half of your weekly grocery bill is more than they have to eat on for an entire month?

Perhaps the problem isn't with others, instead it's with the fact that the opportunity you claim the country enables doesn't exist. I can think of no other reason that someone in the top 5% in income cannot afford to eat.

originally posted by: stormcell
The poor, the newly arrived immigrants, students and entry level workers just don't earn enough to be taxed heavily. Student debt, rent and VAT at 20% are enough.

The super-wealthy with over $2 milllion can afford accountants to find tax breaks, tax havens, investment portfolios and shop around for the country with the best tax breaks.

In between you have the middle classes. They earn enough that they could save enough money to become super-wealthy ($500,000 would let you move to the USA to start a business). So naturally, the government wants to make sure nobody has a pension pot greater than £250,000

Thus all the taxes, relentless raids on pensions, removal of tax relief and IR35. Heaven forbid a contractor should be able to build up a long-term relationship with a single client like the big corporations do.

Why would anyone move to the US????

You make it sound as if us English could escape if we could only afford to??

I am flabberghasted that someone would think that leaving England to move to the States would be a better thing!!!

No offence but we really are far better of here and you should think about saving enough cash to come over this way.

a reply to: nonspecific

Nope, the poor old US citizens are the only ones in the world aside from Eritrea who's country taxes them on earnings overseas, can you imagine that, you pay taxes on earnings in a foreign country and your home nation taxes you on top of it?!

Move to Britain I say, the tax laws are great for entrepreneurs

a reply to: nonspecific

I offset allsorts off my tax bill, mobile phone, landline, Internet, petrol, tools, blah you name it, the UK is a good place to do business in...only 'middle class' employees bitch about taxes lol

originally posted by: nonspecific
Not going to be a great deal left after all is said and done but bear in mind that the average wage in the UK is about £26000 per annum with £6,050.80 deductions at source or 23% of income and minimum wage gives you around £14,040.00, deductions on this wage will be £1,405.60per annum or 10% of income.

Excellent well explained post. However where I think the angst
comes from is when some get benefits equal to that average income
and have no off takes and no time spent in earning that income.

An example being....
I am retired, and comfortable enough through my own efforts during
my working life and am just a pound or two over the sum the govern-
ment considers someone requires as a living income. On the other
hand I have a friend who is a pound or two under this amount so she
now gets her council tax paid and free dental treatment and one or
two other benefits which in 'one fell swoop' raises her income to
£1,500 plus? more than me!

Which makes one wonder why bother, there's always a safety net..

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: nonspecific
Not going to be a great deal left after all is said and done but bear in mind that the average wage in the UK is about £26000 per annum with £6,050.80 deductions at source or 23% of income and minimum wage gives you around £14,040.00, deductions on this wage will be £1,405.60per annum or 10% of income.

Excellent well explained post. However where I think the angst
comes from is when some get benefits equal to that average income
and have no off takes and no time spent in earning that income.

An example being....
I am retired, and comfortable enough through my own efforts during
my working life and am just a pound or two over the sum the govern-
ment considers someone requires as a living income. On the other
hand I have a friend who is a pound or two under this amount so she
now gets her council tax paid and free dental treatment and one or
two other benefits which in 'one fell swoop' raises her income to
£1,500 plus? more than me!

Which makes one wonder why bother, there's always a safety net..

I think it is important to understand that it is the system that is to blame and not the individual recieving benefits a lot of the time.

Several years ago I was in a relationship with someone who had 4 kids and lost my job, With tax credits, JSA, housing benefit ect I think I was getting around £450 a week net income, When I found a job it paid less than when on benefits and I still got tax credits to bump up my low wage. When I worked it out I was getting about 23p per hour more working a 45 hour week than when unemployed. If I had to take time of work then even 2 hours unpaid in a week meant I was getting less money for working than not working.

It is really quite hard to do a crap job for almost nothing given the prospect of watching TV with a nice cup of tea so I empathise with those in that situation.

The real problem is that the difference between what the average person earns and the cost of living means we need tax credits so a lot of people are working AND still receiving benefits.