Ad-blockers, subscriptions and money? ATS is worth $2 million and makes $466,920 a year

Well I guess I should chime in with my opinion on this....

As many posters have already stated, ATS has been going down the drain for years now. I can't remember exactly when things began to turn sour, but I do remember being able to come on to ATS any time of the day and there would be a constant stream of interesting discussions and topics. Over the past few years I now feel as if this site is really no different from reddit.

We used to all be on the same team save for a few closed-minded individuals, however the vast majority of people posting replies now seem to be about as emotionally mature as a teenager.

5 years ago I would have happily paid $10-20 per month in subscription just to have access to the content and intellectual insight the our fellow members here shared. Now? If the sub is even $1 I just won't bother - Almost every single thing posted here, I can find on reddit and, quite often, far sooner.

I'm sick of the name calling, I'm sick of the 'atheists be damned' threads, and I'm sick of seeing the word 'PROOF' in thread titles which contain nothing but personal opinion.

This site has gone downhill, and I believe that this notion of subscriptions is a last-ditch effort to generate revenue before it goes completely down the drain forever.

I miss the golden days of ATS, it will forever have a small place in my heart

a reply to: bandersnatch

Or alternately...another site just like the older version of ATS will get started somewhere out there....and time will have moved on....

Spot on, so many successes got to a certain point and went where they should not, so someone else stepped in and took what they had. I have seen it so many times why do people get greedy and not learn there is a line.
People who make ATS are people who are talking to each other, that can be done some other place.
I am sure no one cares about ads that are not intrusive that don't keep popping up or running and let you look or click if you are interested. The rest is invasion!

Interest in the site comes when people research a subject and Google it, at that point a paid site would not show the content. That would clearly be unbeneficial.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: daaskapital

I spend about $30 a month on an MMPORG, they are worth millions. They have down time, crappy customer service, lag and constant glitches. I choose to play it though, since when it is working, it is working very well and I enjoy the people. They can also tell me each and every day that I should buy more virtual tings. They have an extensive T&C which I must follow or cannot play.

Would you pay rent for an appartment where you can sleep only from time to time, that opens his doors only from time to time? Where it´s landlord is an asshole and fixes nothing? And who is out of reach when it comes to problems? Would you pay the monthly rent like for a normal appartement?

I guess people that pay for every crap, knowing that it`s crap, are the reason why the game industry(and many others) went complete sh*t. Game producers can sell every bullsh*t, even only demos, and make millions, obvisiously there are millions of poops with maybe too much money.

Thats the reason why games nowadays are sold as complete and finished games, but what you get is at best a beta staged unfinished game with millions of bugs, millions of updates needed to make it work, maybe.
Such dumb and paying for everything people are the reason why hobby-game-developers can make millions with early access games, fooling the customers with demos instead of games.

But that business works, because people are too stupid to see, and they pay, pay, pay.
Go on, pay for down time, crappy customer service, lag and constant glitches. it`s guaranteed that by this way the providers have something to change in relation to down time, crappy customer service, lag and constant glitches...

Such people like you are the reason why good and complete, finished and bug free games became extinct!

To ATS, try to make big money with your site and it will die. Some other, free site will open or is already there and have success. That´s life.
There are millions of websites that are runned by one person, and which didn´t use any ads, ever, till today. It´s a hobby for them, and so they pay the small amount for a server maybe from their own pockets, like others do for fishing rods, baits and hooks when they like to fish. And many of these sites aren´t even reliant to user content that keeps their site alive, like ATS, because they add own content, everyday.

If the robber baron capitalism needs to march in ATS, most users will quit with ATS, and life will continue as before, sun and moon will rise and sink as before...

Holy idol, ATS is just a website, and not the only reason to live

a reply to: DerBeobachter

Where it´s landlord ... fixes nothing? And who is out of reach when it comes to problems?

Exactly. And like it seems, it´s a one man job working on the site. Why should I pay for something on a monthly base when the admin is to lazy or incompetent to fix small issues and I have found a (metric) ton of them. Someone who knows his trade sees all the flaws in the coding without even seeing one line of it. It begins with profile editing page where you really can see the skills and ends with the inability to write a SQL querry to fix a arbitrary mistake (member/Member).

Although, it is arbitrary, it shows the mindset. Gobble something together, throw it on the server and when it works halfway, on to the next construction site. Never finishing anything.

I have donated last year in the hope they can hire a decent developer. I provided bugfixes and I know it may be annoying repeating myself again and again. When members take the time to write bugfixes in easy text form for one to understand and the (althoung unasked) help you provide is greeted with "I have no time but thank you". (not the original quote but what it went down to)

The site breaking million star bug for example. I consider this to be a concept breaking bug that should have got fixed more than seven months ago. Also, this bug is probably due to NULL field value in the database entrys of the members that joined before ATS came up with the stars.
How do I know? Because I know my damn trade and have been around long enough to see flaws like that and know their origins.

The absolutely necessary move to NYC and Joe's new studio must've really hurt.

a reply to: daaskapital

I hope they are worth 2 million and I hope they are making 500k.

At least here there is some ability to discern truth, from BS.

The A$$holes we have in DC get paid many times these amounts only to give lip service, and do really nothing in their collective positions.

Even if it were 500k divided up among the 5 or so owners and operating costs isn't all that much.

Skeptic overload and staff work a lot of hours on coding too, debugging, trouble shooting, etc..... I really wish people knew how labor intensive a site like this is.

I'm glad ATS is here.

a reply to: Realtruth

Skeptic overload and staff work a lot of hours on coding too, debugging, trouble shooting, etc..... I really wish people knew how labor intensive a site like this is.

I doubt the debugging part. Really.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Realtruth

Skeptic overload and staff work a lot of hours on coding too, debugging, trouble shooting, etc..... I really wish people knew how labor intensive a site like this is.

I doubt the debugging part. Really.

Yea your probably right for the past 15 years ATS pixies debug and code the site, while the staff is asleep.

a reply to: Realtruth
I may not be allowed to say this but I´ve been in contact with SO in summer 2015 for a good while regarding just everything I posted here about the bugs and then some. The solutions are there since August 2015 for the 5 greatest bugs ATS has.
So I think I´m spot on doubting a) the ability to debug and b) the skills to understand.

See my signature for that (that has been there for a good while, not just now).
Not saying it was coded as cleverly as he could, I´m more pointing out lazyness and bad coding practices. Real real real bad coding practices.
Don´t get me started on the PHP version ATS uses..

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: daaskapital

the " worth " of a website is some fantasy number pulled out of someonse arse [ IMHO ]

The space payed for by companies to advertise are where the estimate of worth comes in. Based on half million a year that puts the price of rice about two million to have those revenues mailed to your account instead of the owners.

In four years you would break even and become lucrative, if you think you can run it as well.

Not an easy job…

Don't sell out guys.

.

a reply to: Motorhead

I would be willing to pay a dollar per month IF the side breaking bugs are fixed once and for all:

When the quote function works how it should (if you reply and then want to quote, you have to refresh the page and save what you wrote in the textfield until then. (solution aviable)

-When the text editor tag inserting behaves like it should.(solution aviable)

-When the timestamp issue is solved. (solution aviable made by me)

-When 4 hours are really 4 hours editing left (seriously...just change the text in the message if you´re unable to fix it)

-When I can type an arrow to the left without fearing the following words will not be displayed. (solution aviable made by me)

-When the star system is fixed. (solution aviable made by me)

-When my ISPs gateway location and hostname is not glitching sometimes to be seen for everyone, even unregistered users. (SERIOUSLY WHY IS THIS NOT FIXED!!! ties into another bug, solution aviable)

-When I can edit a post without being send to nirvana (solution aviable made by me)


and finally, when I get the impression that arbitrary fixes (and if it´s just m/M) are applied that can be done in no-time. Because it paints a picture about the person responsible for the code.

Then, I´m willing to pay a dollar for ad free service. Until then, I myself can say I at least supported ATS financially via donation and offering PLENTY of help with the code FOR FREE. Until then, my adblocker stays ON. no regrets.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

A 1 liner; well that was really helpful...most of your posts on your posting history show you attempt at least 3-5 sentence posts;
Judging from the stars you garnered we can safely assume you are a funny man or your audience likes potty humour or you brought your fan club with you.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

The customer is always right and i agree us members are the heart and soul of the operation....

Whenever I see the customers is always right I know that they have never owned a business and have only gone to "church of the consumer", never visited the "church of the creator of jobs and services and investing your hard earned money in a venture". Wherever did you learn that mantra; do you find it amusing when little johnny throws a tantrum at his mother in a supermarket?

We may be the heart and soul of the operation but you can clearly see there are some sock puppets in the more controversial threads.

I'm still in 2 minds about a paid subscription but I think a nominal annual fee wouldnt be a bad idea.

a reply to: AlphaPred

You nailed it. Why would people pay to come here when there is censorship of topics and questionable mod decisions. I mean you guys would simply be paying to have some peace of mind that someone wont call you a dirt bag and hurt your feelings. That is the only assurance you can get. The content is readily and freely available from other sources. You keep getting mainstream (propaganda) because anything truly top secret or controversial will get shut down. We get it ATS owners you don't like Hitler but does that mean you cant discuss him? Its stupid crap like that that makes people call in to question the motives of the operators.

The no lifers with 50k post are the people that drove this site down in some ways. You can see the same handful of loud mouths on the first page of most threads. They are so caught up in some kind of sick validation they receive from stars and flags and are at times some of the worst when it comes to "drive bys and one liners" two dedicated neck beards can ruin any conversation in a thread. The contributors left and the hecklers that copy paste MSN articles are who remain. Most of your site visitors don't want a membership. Memberships are for people who want to post and who wants to post in this environment?

This whole ad revelation has been interesting. In the "why I quit posting..." thread I brought up some site stats that were summarily dismissed by SO as being inaccurate and then a month later the cyber pan handling begins.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Nyiah

Let's step back into reality for a moment. This isn't a government. Townsfolk?

It's a website that you and I use. It's social media, emphasis on the media. It's entertainment.

You're the one who made a comparison about "communities." Don't be surprised when people run with the metaphor you suggested.

The issue here as I see it is that we are being asked to donate to a for-profit corporation. Normally one donates to a 501(c)3 non-profit organization. ATS is mixing its metaphors here and trying to be both.

ATS has also made a big deal about "user-generated content." That's telling--to the users. As users we are not buying a product here; we're providing the product here. In truth ATS provides the platform; users provide the content. This can be seen as a win-win proposition, but if users are forced to pay for providing content, that throws off the balance. It would be dangerous to ATS as a business to do that, and I think they know it. If they did, use would drop to a trickle because the fact is this is not the only game in town, and it's also sub-standard. Yes, it's sub-standard. They don't fix stuff and users are often faced with heavy-handed moderation. At best you can say that it is uneven. Read the stories of users who are both applauded and sanctioned for the same post. ATS's relationship with users needs work.

IMO if ATS wants to charge, then they need to provide something for it. For example, if you "donate," i.e.: Contribute to this profit-making corporation's coffers, then you get an ad-free user experience. That would be a fair trade. It is also the kind of thing other forums on other topics will do to raise revenue. It's a model that has been successfully implemented elsewhere.

I personally do not feel the need to know the state of ATS finances, and I'm perfectly willing to turn my ad blocker off for this site.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

if the business model is failing and needs its members to support it as far as i am concerned the business is not viable ....next thing you know they will be printing bills and fudging the books

So if a business goes through rough times its a "given" they will resort to fraud in your eyes? Wow...seriously do you have that little respect for the site your are posting on? why even go there?

originally posted by: schuyler



IMO if ATS wants to charge, then they need to provide something for it. For example, if you "donate," i.e.: Contribute to this profit-making corporation's coffers, then you get an ad-free user experience. That would be a fair trade. It is also the kind of thing other forums on other topics will do to raise revenue. It's a model that has been successfully implemented elsewhere.

You do realise that this is exactly what SO has proposed, right?

a reply to: Tiamat384

I would consider us investors if we pay. As investors we want to make informed choices.

Not trying to split hairs with you but because we generate the content we are unpaid assistants in making the site...as "consumers" of this site we can shop with our feet by not staying here. When was the last time you walked into McDonalds and demanded over the counter that they pay their workers a fairer wage..or suggested that because their meals are so cheap that they must be using sub-standard products? We are definitely not investors; the 21st century parlance is possibly "Stakeholders" ?