Elah or Allah -- God or Sacred Oak; Strong's

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Well, there exists manuscripts and fragments belonging to pretty early versions of Daniel and Ezra and they were both written around the time when the Aramaic square-script was introduced. Hebrew was still carried on as a sort of ecclesiastical language, like Church Latin is not a real language but still used by clerics in the Roman church and shows lots of evolving developments in its morphology and syntax &c. Or like NA-28 is a modern text written in an ancient Greek dialect.

The fact there exists both Aramaic and Hebrew variants of Daniel doesn't really show they were written in different epocs, no, they were only written according to different standards. Daniel and Ezra spoke Aramaic. «The writing on the wall» was a magic square code that only makes sense in Aramaic (almost sure, I'll have to check).

According to the Talmud the «Writing on the wall» in Daniel was written like this backwards and vertically, and supposedly these letters woud form different words in Babylonian and Persian, I was unable to find a good source on the run:



From Daniel 12:11-12 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.

Damn, I just figured that out now. That's amazing!

originally posted by: SarMegahhikkitha
Why are you spreading this disinformation? alLah is the male consort of alLat. The al of alLah means "the", it's totally unrelated to "El" (God).

This may have been true before the advent of Muhammadan Islam, however, the Qur'an directly disavows any homage paid to al-Lat, and Muhammad himself ordered the destruction of the Temple of al-Lat, along with the idols and images of this goddess.

"So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza?

And Manat, the third, the other?

Is the male for you and for Him the female?

That, then, is an unjust division.

They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance."

- Qur'an; 53:19-29

Similarly, before the advent of a centralized Judaism, there exists much archeological evidence in Israel and the Levant that names the goddess Asherah as the wife/consort of both El and YHWH. Additionally, the goddess Asherah has been equated with the goddesses Athirat, Elat, and al-Lat. It would appear as though this Asherah/al-Lat had ancient, pre-monotheistic marriages with El, YWHW, and Allah. Even in this polytheistic view, Allah and El may very well be localized manifestations of the same deity.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

contact me when you find an original.

a reply to: the2ofusr1
You wrote QUOTE "Just a note .....I was listening to a speaker this morning talking about Daniel .He was in chapter 7 but he made note that Daniel used both Hebrew Aramaic .Not sure where the divisions are but I though he said the first 4 chapters were Hebrew and if I am not mistaken that the last chapter [s] went back to Hebrew..." UNQUOTE

Daniel is composite. Chapter 1 is written in late Hebrew, Chapter 2:4b begins the Aramaic sections of the book which is Aramaic all the way through to the end of chapter 6. Chapter 7 is written in late Hebrew from 7:1 up to v. 13 where at 7:13 to the end of the chapter (v. 28) it switches back to Aramaic Chapters 8 to 12 of Daniel are written in late Hebrew.

Ezra is written in late Hebrew except for the Aramaic sections beginning in chapter 4:8 to 6:18; also chapter 7:12-26

I hope this clarifies things a little.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I agree. Allah is El derived and not Yahweh derived. Look into it and you will find that El and Yahweh are different entities. El is merciful, Yahweh is not. I know Kabbalistic Jews recognize this and other manifestations of the i Ineffable. Kabbalah is Jewish Gnosticism based off Zoroastrianism.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

The word of God is also preserved in the Qur'an. Yours isn't the only faith worshipping God. Islam is a monotheistic religion based off Christianity and El of Judaism is Allah but NOT Yahweh, who is a different lesser God, thiis fact is known by Jews the only religion that thinks they are the same God is in the dark Christianity.

a reply to: Caligula

So the "mono" in monotheism is just for decorum then, because of how popular the concept was at the time?

Not everything translated as "god" is the same word sure, but what did you look into?

That's not what Kabala means. Any opinion one receives (not formed by self) that was not written is kabala, therefore all jews (and all people in fact) are kabalistic unless they're deaf.

Of course through semantic drift kabala refers to the cream of the oral data crop, and for jews it ain't gnosticism or zoroastrianism, not even a little bit.

a reply to: wisvol

That's not what I said, I said it's BASED of Zoroastrianism and it absolutely is Jewish Gnosticism. Both Christian and Jewish Gnosticism are based off the Zend Avesta and ancient Persian Zoroastrianism. You shouldn't say stuff if you haven't studied it. I suggest you learn subjects before commenting. Kabbalah means "To receive" and is said to be oral tradition passed down from Moses but really began after Persia freed the Jews and they co-mingled their religious practices picking up many things from their liberators as would Christianity through the Greeks and Romans who worshipped Mithras who is like the Jewish Metatron. Learn something first, comment second, not the other way around.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Yes. The patriarchs worshipped and congregated at the sacred oak. The moreh was a woman who presided over the spot. Abraham always stayed at the spots of the sacred oak.

The menorah was the representation of the sacred tree in the holy place. It was the symbol of wisdom that was kicked out of the temple by Josiah and his purge. They also tore down the asherah poles and sacred groves that their father Abraham lived and worshippers at.

First temple Judaism was so very different than post exillic.

a reply to: zardust

The kind of Judaism Jesus seems to have preached was a kind based around the Tabernacle. Jesus scoffed at the Temple saying they could destroy it and Jesus would have a tabernacle up within a few days. Jesus was a sort of strictly-Moses Judaism that conflicted the Pharicee who followed Hillel that would lead to Talmud. «St Paul» on his side sabotaged both and created Christianity, which is actually a gory and horrible joke.

a reply to: zardust

A thing that's interesting with oaks is that you find them on all continents, but it seeds with nuts which means someone must have brought these nuts with them. To make ships for rough seas you need oak.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Who were these mariners planting oak forests where they went?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The oak of mamre is more likely a terebinth which is a terpene producing variety. It produces terpentine along with other valuable resins. Ship building would have been reliant on these. Along with medicine.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I agree, Allah is El Elyon. But El Elyon is not Jehovah.

originally posted by: SerapisChrist
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I agree, Allah is El Elyon. But El Elyon is not Jehovah.

You agree?

Allah is Heb. Eloah in Arabic and are general words that means God. Your Elyon is identical in Aramaic and Hebrew and comes from Heb. Alah which is a verb and means go up, ascend, climb according to BDB. ==> biblehub.com... El is a title, just like Elyon, while JHVH is the HaShem, the fabled name of the LORD. It used to be protected by an angel you call the Devil, whose name Shemael means literally «The Name of God» poor guy.

Like in Exodus 19:3:

Umoseh alah el ha Elohim - And Moses went up to God

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

All I care about is that Allah is the Most High God, El Elyon, which is true. I don't care about the linguistics, sorry.

a reply to: SerapisChrist

God has many names. Elohim, Allah, El Elyon, Javeh Tsebaot, a bunch. If anyone asked me who God was, I'd reply Jesus or whoever his God is.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Many names in many languages. Yahweh Sabaoth is not El, though, it means Yahweh, lord of hosts. Yahweh is a son of El, a little known fact, so he was the god of ancient Israel, sometimes. They were chronic apostates and the ten northern tribes were more into El. The Jews and Benjaminites were Yahwist.

a reply to: SerapisChrist

Yahweh Sabaoth is not El, though, it means Yahweh, lord of hosts. Yahweh is a son of El, a little known fact, so he was the god of ancient Israel, sometimes.

(Adonai) tsevaot means approximately at first glance the rule maker. Many descriptions of god are given in the books of Moses and each will get you further in your own understanding of what god is. Pharaoh was adonai tsevaot to the israeli slaves before they said "no". To Moses, adonai tsevaot means something more interesting because his understanding of his alphabet is clearer than mine or yours. What I do know and will share here is that all appellations of god in the bible are references to one god, and the choice of the feminine in tsevaot has the same significance here and in "books" vs "spheres", here "colours" and "snip" haha gotta love mysticism sometimes: books are "sepharim" masculine plural and spheres are "sephirot" feminine plural, same word, when tsevaim means & c. This isn't for you gnostic dude anymore but I know the OP said the bahir was the root of the book yetzira so I had to expand on this.

Ten commandments, not too much data to accurately remember, just one per sphere or finger.

Commandment one: there is only one god.

Yhvh isn't a son of anything, and the appellation when either understood or correctly translated makes it quite clear. Dividing believers as your teacher is attempting to do yields the nastiest results. Call it bang, call it allah, call it el, call it baal or zeus or FSM, or even if you're one to call it sex or money or flags, it's still that which is/shall/was.

A correct understanding of that which you attempt to divide is the key to heaven, and understanding of the alphabet is said to have been worth life to Odin himself, who found both on Ygdrasil logically enough.

You often claim to have studied a lot, and I see no reason to question this, but it is evident that you are missing an element here, which is the unity of the divine and the nature of the names of god throughout the many believers and their respective traditions.

Abraham worships one god, and dividing it will only lead you to misconception of his teachings, which considering the time and effort you seem to invest in them would be a shame. The god of Moses is the god of Abraham, there is no division in their accounts, which is in my opinion a major reason for their popularity through time so far.

Also, people read this website, and some may be set back by accepting what you say without verification. You have a responsibility toward the young and the gullible in matters of theology: as a guideline try to unite where you could divide.

Oh and OP: The Dan-ish mariners of both yore and to day have interesting oak-related tales, that not being from Scandinavia myself I wouldn't want to spoil by inaccurately remembering or translating since Bokmål seems to have less secrets to you.

Yahweh is a son of El

You're thinking of superman, who also is clark kent. Good ole tetra is elohim is adonai is & c.

originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: SerapisChrist

Yahweh Sabaoth is not El, though, it means Yahweh, lord of hosts. Yahweh is a son of El, a little known fact, so he was the god of ancient Israel, sometimes.

(Adonai) tsevaot means approximately at first glance the rule maker.

JHVH Tsebaot means LORD of the Armies or the LORD of Hosts as is commonly used. Tsebaot is plural feminine, it has NOTHING to do with making rules. LORD of Hosts means Lord of the Armies [of God]. God's generals were his seven arch angels, the seven astrological stars. They ruled the Minions (the fixed stars)