Satan's "fall"

Oh I wanted to add that Seraphim, a class of "angels" dually translatable as shining ones AND serpents, is from the Egyptian worship of Serapis, the serpent. I am reading a book called The Gnostics and their remains online. You all should Google it and read it, as it is interesting as hell. Figuratively speaking.

Everyone have a great day.

Rabbi bar Tzadok, can't remember his first name but I saw him on a documentary recently and he is my source of the definition and translation of Seraphim, in addition to the book I mentioned .

originally posted by: Blueracer
a reply to: Gezus

No links or anything? How about something to support your claims? We are suppose to take your word, and only your word since you provided nothing to back up your claims, that these really are "f*** ups" as you put it, or perhaps you do not know what you are talking about and are just parroting someone else's words?

Im not being nosey but I have to ask, do you not know how Google search works? Go to Google.com, type in your curiosity, and click go. Easy peasy sneezy breezy and it beats complaining that someone else didn't do your research. Stop being a sloth.

Since nobody has addressed it, I can say with certainty that no Canaanite deity named Helel or Halal has ever been documented. I don't know why someone would say it and not say from where they got the information. If Iam incorrect I apologize. I would need proof to believe it.

originally posted by: Mankind
Since nobody has addressed it, I can say with certainty that no Canaanite deity named Helel or Halal has ever been documented. I don't know why someone would say it and not say from where they got the information. If Iam incorrect I apologize. I would need proof to believe it.

I found a reference to Helel as "the Pit" in a book.
It is actually in a reference to the exact subject matter as OP.
Except it states that Canaanites called Lucifer Shaher, the morning star.
Shaher's twin brother Shalem, the evening star.
Shalem was worshipped along with his brother in Jerusalem, which means "House of Shalem"
Both Shaher and Shalem were born of the great mother Asherah in her world-womb aspect as Helel, "the Pit".

this is direct from The Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets. If you want me to upload a pic I will.

Gezus is probably banned, notice the 2nd post. So this thread will probably wither and die.

So if one does not believe there is a Lucifer/Satan, does one still believe angels fell from Heaven (Nephilim)? Or was that part of the bible made up or mistranslated also?

If one doesn't believe in Lucifer or fallen angels, what are demons? Or do you not believe in those either?

Why would you believe any of the Bible if you are 100% convinced of at least one error in it?

a reply to: obnoxiouschick

I don't think that the Shahar and Shachar (your Shalem is new to me and I would imagine somehow related to Salem) were literal Gods to the Canaanite people but myths based on Astrology. I can't say the same about El and Asherah, as I believe they believed in them.

We can only guess, but I am happy to have a new topic to research in Shalem and thank you for that.

As to halal, Hebrew didn't have capital letters for us to know if it was a name but I think it was used similar to how Catholic church fathers said Gnostics which roughly means knowers. It sounds complimentary now, but is sarcastic. Isaiah's shining one seems to have the same usage here.

a reply to: jjkenobi

Are you saying we should believe in Lucifer despite knowing he isn't real and that it's a misunderstanding based off translation goofs?

Because you think he exists despite proof that he never did, I should regardless believe in him?

Why would I force myself to believe something that is in error? How is that going to help anybody?

I don't perpetuate myths.

originally posted by: Mankind

originally posted by: Blueracer
a reply to: Gezus

No links or anything? How about something to support your claims? We are suppose to take your word, and only your word since you provided nothing to back up your claims, that these really are "f*** ups" as you put it, or perhaps you do not know what you are talking about and are just parroting someone else's words?

Im not being nosey but I have to ask, do you not know how Google search works? Go to Google.com, type in your curiosity, and click go. Easy peasy sneezy breezy and it beats complaining that someone else didn't do your research. Stop being a sloth.

Oh no. The burden, sir, is on you since you are the one that made the claims. I do not have time to sit and google all of your claims. You started the thread, the least you can do is to give sources for your claims. Or, if you do not have anything to back up what you say, just say so. I can only assume that you are pulling these claims out of thin air with nothing to back them up.

originally posted by: Mankind
a reply to: jjkenobi

Are you saying we should believe in Lucifer despite knowing he isn't real and that it's a misunderstanding based off translation goofs?

Because you think he exists despite proof that he never did, I should regardless believe in him?

Why would I force myself to believe something that is in error? How is that going to help anybody?

I don't perpetuate myths.

Surely the Canaanite pantheon of gods was mythical. When you make reference to them in your posts, you are perpetuating myths. You have done little else but perpetuate myths.

You denigrate Judaistic and Christian beliefs based upon your personal belief that they are a continuation of an ancient pantheon. Monotheisim, however, is something quite different. The various godlets of polytheism cannot be played off against each other or controlled by circumstances, there is ONLY a single supreme authority answerable to no one else.

Under monotheism, ALL other concepts of deity are false.

originally posted by: Mankind
a reply to: obnoxiouschick

I don't think that the Shahar and Shachar (your Shalem is new to me and I would imagine somehow related to Salem) were literal Gods to the Canaanite people but myths based on Astrology. I can't say the same about El and Asherah, as I believe they believed in them.

We can only guess, but I am happy to have a new topic to research in Shalem and thank you for that.

As to halal, Hebrew didn't have capital letters for us to know if it was a name but I think it was used similar to how Catholic church fathers said Gnostics which roughly means knowers. It sounds complimentary now, but is sarcastic. Isaiah's shining one seems to have the same usage here.

You stated, in a previous post, that an equivalent identity to Heylal was not a god in the Canaanite pantheon.

Looks like you are back-peddling now it has been second sourced.

a reply to: Mankind

or Gezus ....whoever you are.
You know it looks weird to come on here all hyped on a NEW account.
And you really should get sleep.
Sleep deprivation is serious and causes psychosis ....

There was a lot more I can add to this subject in OP but I won't.

a reply to: Gezus

Meaning of the name Zebedee.

The name given in the Gospels, Greek: Ζεβεδαῖος, is probably a transliteration of the Hebrew name Zebadiah according to Spiros Zodhiates (The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary), or the truncated version Zabdi, says BDB Theological Dictionary, and so means Yahweh (or The Lord) Has Bestowed.[4] Other popular interpretations of the name are: abundant (Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary) or my gift (Smith's Bible Dictionary).

Zebedee; Sons James the Greater and John the Evangelist, c. 1511.

Seems like Zebedee/Yahweh is God and Satan at the same time?



Hans von Kulmbach:

Mary Salome and Zebedee with their Sons James the Greater and John the Evangelist, c. 1511.

Last name is a bit like Solomon?

The big child look's like a poor blind child? But his an angel?


files.abovetopsecret.com...

I didn't make either image. I poached them off the web for your thread.

a reply to: PPFkid

Thanks, for the info, not my thread but good contribution.

a reply to: chr0naut

Whatever you say dude. I don't think there is a god in the Canaanite pantheon named halal, and your accusation of backpedaling is misleading.

a reply to: chr0naut

Referring to someone else's myth as a myth is not perpetuation.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Mankind
a reply to: jjkenobi

Are you saying we should believe in Lucifer despite knowing he isn't real and that it's a misunderstanding based off translation goofs?

Because you think he exists despite proof that he never did, I should regardless believe in him?

Why would I force myself to believe something that is in error? How is that going to help anybody?

I don't perpetuate myths.

Surely the Canaanite pantheon of gods was mythical. When you make reference to them in your posts, you are perpetuating myths. You have done little else but perpetuate myths.

You denigrate Judaistic and Christian beliefs based upon your personal belief that they are a continuation of an ancient pantheon. Monotheisim, however, is something quite different. The various godlets of polytheism cannot be played off against each other or controlled by circumstances, there is ONLY a single supreme authority answerable to no one else.

Under monotheism, ALL other concepts of deity are false.

You say surely it was mythical without considering they might have had myths in addition to faith in God. El Elyon is the Most High God in Hebrew still to this day. You are stretching the truth and have misconstrued said truth to fit your personal beliefs.

Your choice for yourself, not for the whole world,so push your agenda on someone else you might have a chance of actually influencing.

a reply to: chr0naut

If I am backpedaling then how come you don't quote me?

I never said, and don't believe, that the Shahar and Shachar mythos was meant literally, however, we can't ask.

Were and when did I post that I think halal was an actual God? Where did I claim otherwise? My opinion on this subject has never been anything but MY opinion but halal can not be found in any Mesopotamian myths, religion, texts or anything anywhere having to do with this mythical halal.

Prove me wrong.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Mankind
a reply to: obnoxiouschick

I don't think that the Shahar and Shachar (your Shalem is new to me and I would imagine somehow related to Salem) were literal Gods to the Canaanite people but myths based on Astrology. I can't say the same about El and Asherah, as I believe they believed in them.

We can only guess, but I am happy to have a new topic to research in Shalem and thank you for that.

As to halal, Hebrew didn't have capital letters for us to know if it was a name but I think it was used similar to how Catholic church fathers said Gnostics which roughly means knowers. It sounds complimentary now, but is sarcastic. Isaiah's shining one seems to have the same usage here.

You stated, in a previous post, that an equivalent identity to Heylal was not a god in the Canaanite pantheon.

Looks like you are back-peddling now it has been second sourced.

I fail to see any truth In what you say, I still know that halal is not a Canaanite deity. I haven't changed my mind, and am not saying that halal is a Canaanite deity now nor have I ever. Liar.