Why and what for is prayer and bowing to a deity is needed IF there is a loving god who takes care?

a reply to: Murgatroid

That might be true for...äh...asuras and demons only. But for humans, worshipping some (god) concept is not what I'm dealing in.

a reply to: Willingly

Let's see who bows and to whom.

Abraham to three men

Genesis 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

Lot to two angels he later calls men

Genesis 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

Abraham to people

Genesis 23:7 And Abraham stood up, and bowed himself to the people of the land, even to the children of Heth.
Genesis 23:12 And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.

Abraham's servant bow to the God of Abraham

Genesis 24:26 And the man bowed down his head, and worshipped the LORD.
Genesis 24:48 And I bowed down my head, and worshipped the LORD, and blessed the LORD God of my master Abraham, which had led me in the right way to take my master's brother's daughter unto his son.
Genesis 24:52 And it came to pass, that, when Abraham's servant heard their words, he worshipped the LORD, bowing himself to the earth.

Jacob seven times to Esau

Genesis 33:3 And he passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.

Egyptians commanded to bow to Joseph

Genesis 41:43 And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee: and he made him ruler over all the land of Egypt.

Jacobs 10 sons to Joseph

Genesis 42:6 And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.
Genesis 43:26 And when Joseph came home, they brought him the present which was in their hand into the house, and bowed themselves to him to the earth.
Genesis 43:28 And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.

Many more examples in th OT to many to post

Now in the NT
Roman solders mocking Jesus

Matthew 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
Mark 15:19 And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.

healed woman to Jesus

Luke 13:11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

Paul bowing to God

Ephesians 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

one day Everyone (including you)will bow to Jesus Christ

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

edit on 21-2-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)

a reply to: ChesterJohn

What ever, dude. Quoting the bible to me is like quoting the news-paper from yesterday. Sorry for not having anything to do with yesterdays news.

originally posted by: Willingly
I, personally, can't see that prayer and bowing to some god or deity does change anything in the real world at all.

There's lots of things I can't see either...

Just because we can't see them doesn't make them any less real.

a reply to: Willingly
I figured that was you and now I know its true.

Welcome back Rasaghul

BTW, that last quote is a prophecy that has not taken place so it is like getting tomorrows news to day.

a reply to: ChesterJohn


And to make it as plain as possible: I consider the bible, any translation of it, as this: the mind-set of some tribe I have nothing, whatsoever, to do with.

a reply to: Willingly

So you are a Holy Spiritian then?

One who accepts all religions equally and Islam is the best so far.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

No, I consider every god-concept as equally ...well...non-valid for humanitys well-being. That's all.

originally posted by: Willingly
That's my question to all who pray and bow to a deity, any deity or god. Why and what for would a loving mother, for example, need to be prayed and bowed to, if she knows what her child needs and wants by being a good mother?

In other words: Does a child of a loving mother "pray" and/or "bow" to its mother to be fed? No? How comes that that is not the case?

My point is: Prayer is a means to disengage the devotees from taking real (non-violent) actions. What better way to distract a devotee from being active than letting him or her pray or bow to some god or deity to get things changed? Annddd? Did anything change? By having prayed and bowed? And if yes, how does that work. I, personally, can't see that prayer and bowing to some god or deity does change anything in the real world at all.

To continue your analogy of a "loving mother", how do you address her? Do you talk to her in the same way that you do with your friends? Do you not have a special name for her that you call no one else but her?

The way we address deities is the same. Most people don't feel comfortable approaching a goddess or god with "Hey, buddy, how's Trix?"

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Willingly

Right, Jesus once said do not keep repeating endlessly the same prayer God know's what you kneed and when asked how then to pray he gave them a simple prayer which is the Our Father prayer.

www.learnthebible.org...

Jesus said Love god (whom is the source of order and law) above all else and love your neighbour as yourself.

One man asked him on another occasion Lord whom is my neighbour and he replied with the parable of the good samaritan pointing out how even a rabbi walked past the injured man whom had been robbed but a Samaritan whom the Jew's were often at odd's with saw him and had compassion taking him (carrying or in his cart as the man was not able to move so was probably unconsciouse or in a bad way) to an inn, since the man whom was a jew had no money having been robbed this samaritan paid the innkeeper to look after him.

SO your neighbour is not just the guy whom lives in the next house to you but rather the guy whom does not pass by when you are in trouble but it is also a story that say's to be a good samaritan ourselves and so not to be bad to the other's but to treat them as the samaritan treated this stranger he found ignored and wounded on the road.

Hatred for god does not serve any purpose, in the book of revelation John threw himself on the floor but the Alpha and Omega made him stand back up calling him a fellow servant.

Jesus once said when someone called him good, Why do you call me Good only God is Good, this was not denying he was good but pointing out that the worship and adoration of persons is not godly we are all in this together even if we don't know it so helping those around you really is helping yourself and it is these good work's (if they come from good intent's) that god is more interested in.

So god has no idol, you can not define him and the prayer's to him are like a conversation with god or a telephone call because though in essence he is there all the time WE are not are we and it is a way to reconnecting with God, his connection to us is not broken but if we ignore him our universe shrink's down eventually to the me, me, me universe of the self absorbed tiny minded and selfish individualism that has caused the end of the twentieth century and this first part of the twenty first century to be a time of greed and loathing.

I agree with all of that apart from the part where worship is required, it's not. Now we can get technical and argue the finer points between love and worship and if we adore those we love but I have a little bit of a problem with the if we think of God as a diety that requires things from us to be reabsorbed, sorry allowed into heaven, then what happens when I want to have a long distance relationship? And maybe love God but remain separate and grow?

Religious conspiracy time now....

What if religion is hijacked by something other than God and all prayer is, is a way to turn your spirit into a battery? Is this the difference between what ancient cultures knew that we lack. Seriously, imagine you have the control and influence of a pharaoh, the ability to make massive amounts of people pray what you want... In contrast to today.

a reply to: Abysha

Why would that even matter? How to adress a "godess" is not what I deal in anyway.

a reply to: auraofblack

You can enjoy to quote some scripture all day long, dude. That's not gonna change anything. At least not in my perspective.

a reply to: Willingly

Where I live is bed-time now. Let's continue tomorrow, if that is what is yah like to do. Thanks for engaging me so far.

originally posted by: Willingly
a reply to: Abysha

Why would that even matter? How to adress a "godess" is not what I deal in anyway.

It was your question, not mine.

You asked why we address deities in the way that we do (i.e. prayer, etc). I answered.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Abraham heard voices, and today would be in a mental health facility for trying to kill his son after the voice told him to.

But besides that, I admit the bowing and kneeling thing I always found ludicrous even when I use to pray. I always found it a useless human expression.

Benevolence doesn't require worship and prostration. Ego does.

originally posted by: Willingly
You can enjoy to quote some scripture all day long, dude. That's not gonna change anything. At least not in my perspective.

Anyone who says that quoting scripture, prayer, and worship will change nothing clearly hasn't the slightest idea of what he is talking about...

Wisdom only comes through experience, it appears to me that you have none.

And as far as this thread goes: "it's not gonna change anything..."

a reply to: Willingly
Prayer and bowing are both an acknowledgement of the source of all life, and the provision made for said life by said deity. Bowing is also a physical sign of submission to that deity's will above your own.

And welcome back for the umpteenth time.

originally posted by: Willingly
a reply to: intrptr

I'm certainly, most definitely, not a god-concept promoter. That you can be sure of. Haven'd I made it as plain as possible by now? If not, I'm sorry for not having done so.

I was agreeing with you. Sharing experience from my youth why the church believes that way. Sorry as well, I should have made that clearer…

Is it possible that your conception of what a all loving, benevolent God would be is incorrect?

God gave mankind free will, and part of that is the choice to choose Him or not.
Praying ties into that. God absolutely knows what we want and need, what we would pray for, but it's the decision to come to Him and ask that makes a difference. I don't think forcing someone to love you is a very loving thing to do. Nor do I think God's benevolence means He should just disregard free will and give us everything and anything that we want--or even the all the things we need. I don't think that would produce much spiritual maturity and character. I also think we as human beings would (and we do) take Him for granite if he did that, more than we already do.

I don't personally benefit from saying Hail Mary's or other repetitive praying, but I respect those that do. I've heard and read that intently praying in repitition produces a state similar to meditation.

Personally, I pray to God on a conversation level. I reflect on my actions, repent for my sins, ask for guidance and strength, express my gratitude and love to Him, etc.

Sometimes I find myself lost for words, but I've felt His presence before in moments where I've admitted that I am struggling to pray, but I know that He understands exactly what I'm feeling and thinking.

Praying is also making an effort. I have a relationship with Christ and relationships require effort.

Should I husband not tell his wife that he loves her, simply because she should already know that? I know many men do not, but I also know that many women want to hear that.

a reply to: Achilles92x

Amen sister.



That is why in the New Testament tells a husband to love his wife. We do tend to think that our hard work to provide for them and our families tell them we love them four times. But you are correct we need to tell our wives and children we love them everyday.

And it also tells the woman to reverence her husband that is because women are able to turn off love like a faucet depending on her feelings. But even if today my wife does not feel she loves me she does still reverence me.