Jesus isn't God, doesn't claim to be God and doesn't want to be worshipped.

· Let me show you where I'm coming from with some scripture.

Jesus isn't God:

John 12:49. ' for I have not spoken ON MY OWN but the father who sent me has himself GIVEN ME a commandment about WHAT TO SAY AND WHAT TO SPEAK. And I know that HIS commandment is eternal life. What I speak, therefore, I speak just as the Father TOLD ME."

Clearly God has the ability to boss Jesus around. That makes him superior. He is sent from God, to deliver GOD'S commandment, but clearly isn't God.

He doesn't claim to be God:

The absence of claims to being a god, and especially THE God, speaks for itself. The closest thing is John 8: 39-59. I'll quote from 54-59 you should read the rest though.

Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my father who glorifies me, he who of whom you say, 'He is our God,' though you do not know him. But I know him; if I would say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you. But I do know him and I keep HIS word. Your ancestor Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day; he saw it and was glad." Then the Jews said to him, you are not yet 50 years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, " Very truly, I tell you,before Abraham was, I am" ill stop there.

Yes, Jesus invoked a portion of the name revealed to Moses. But as you can see, it is only a claim to pre existence, not a claim to being God. That sample was full of claims against being God.

He doesn't want your worship:

Matthew 4:10 Jesus says to the Satan, quoting scripture when asked to bow down and worship the Satan,(imagine the Satan asking God to worship him!) "Worship the Lord your God, and serve only him."

You are a typical Scripture twister, taking things out of context, and not quoting material proving you wrong. Jesus is the very YHVH.

a reply to: Rasalghul

Jesus isn't God, doesn't claim to be God and doesn't want to be worshipped.

Yah, disagree with hero worship, too. Why must we put people on pedestals?

We come from our fathers DNA. In that sense we are from him and he is in us. But I'm not my dad and he isn't me. Father and son means just that. We aren;t the same person… sheesh

What an irrational non sensical point of view Churchians have about it.

From my point of view:

Yeshua speaks like a blessed ONE/anointed ONE so I have no trouble to believe Yeshua was connected to the real YHVH (the existing ONE). But just because Yeshua was connected in ONENESS to the real YHVH (the existing ONE) did not mean he was omniscient when Yeshua walked on earth proving that he was not the real YHVH (the existing ONE) that would be omniscient.

Not all beings who claim to be YHVH (the existing ONE) in the bible are YHVH (the existing ONE) from my point of view either.

A computer Alpha that can connect and get information from a computer AlpahToOmega that can get all information from all computers Alpha to Omega, is not AlphaToOmega and will only know everything that AlphaToOmega knows if AlphaToOmega shares it with Alpha.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
You are a typical Scripture twister, taking things out of context, and not quoting material proving you wrong. Jesus is the very YHVH.

How did I twist scripture? Scripture twisting is saying Jesus is God when the bible says he isn't.

What scripture did I twist, and how?

a reply to: Rasalghul

I believe Jesus is the begotten Son of God.
This alone is why I am called a Christian.

a reply to: Rasalghul

Ah, the Gnostic with a dozen accounts again!

Well. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. I can throw a dozen biblical lines at you again but it is kind of useless since another thread will just pop up.

a reply to: intrptr

Indeed. I would love to see someone show me anything in the n.t. with Jesus saying something along the lines of" I am God, worship me only" like his o.t. bastard half brother YHWH.

a reply to: infolurker

Well. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

He showed us the way to live, told the truth, providing us an example how to live life.

To keeping it simple.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
You are a typical Scripture twister, taking things out of context, and not quoting material proving you wrong. Jesus is the very YHVH.

But that happens all the time by the religous folks.

For instance the first two commandments say that you are to only worship god and you are not to make idols to worship. But what do you see at every christian church? Idols of jesus on the cross and people praying to jesus.... No christian follows the word of god and will go to hell, if hell actually exists. If we go by the bible basically only the orthodox religous folks will go to heaven.

If the scripture has been twisted why dont you provide the proof instead of just claiming it to be twisted

a reply to: infolurker

Well. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. I can throw a dozen biblical lines at you again but it is kind of useless since another thread will just pop up.

So why did you bother to step into the thread

www.ucg.org...

Cyril Richardson, professor of church history at New York’s Union Theological Seminary, though a dedicated Trinitarian himself, said this in his book The Doctrine of The Trinity:

“My conclusion, then, about the doctrine of the Trinity is that it is an artificial construct . . . It produces confusion rather than clarification; and while the problems with which it deals are real ones, the solutions it offers are not illuminating. It has posed for many Christians dark and mysterious statements, which are ultimately meaningless, because it does not sufficiently discriminate in its use of terms” (1958, pp. 148-149).

He also admitted, “Much of the defense of the Trinity as a ‘revealed’ doctrine, is really an evasion of the objections that can be brought against it” (p. 16).

A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge states regarding the Trinity, “Precisely what that doctrine is, or rather precisely how it is to be explained, Trinitarians are not agreed among themselves” (Lyman Abbott, editor, 1885, “Trinitarians”).

Why do even those who believe in the Trinity find it so difficult to explain?

The answer is simple yet shocking: It’s because the Bible does not teach it! One cannot prove or explain something from the Bible that is not biblical! The Bible is our only reliable source of divine revelation. And the truth, as we will see, is that the Trinity concept simply is not part of God’s revelation to humankind.

But don’t just take our word for it! Let’s see what some standard works of biblical scholarship and other individual scholars say.

Surprising admissions that the Trinity isn’t in the Bible!

Notice these admissions from a number of reputable sources and authors who, while themselves affirming the Trinity, acknowledge that the word “Trinity” and the doctrine is not found in the Bible.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia acknowledges that “ ‘trinity’ is a second-century term found nowhere in the Bible, and the Scriptures present no finished trinitarian statement” (1988, Vol. 4, “Trinity,” p. 914). It further states that “church fathers crystallized the doctrine in succeeding centuries”—long after the apostles had passed from the scene.

The HarperCollins Bible Dictionary tells us, “The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the NT [New Testament]” (Paul Achtemeier, editor, 1996, “Trinity”).

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: intrptr

Indeed. I would love to see someone show me anything in the n.t. with Jesus saying something along the lines of" I am God, worship me only" …

I agree, Its not there.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: intrptr

Indeed. I would love to see someone show me anything in the n.t. with Jesus saying something along the lines of" I am God, worship me only" like his o.t. bastard half brother YHWH.

I'm just glad he didn't tell us to worship a rock.

Based on the story of him,Jesus would be pissed if he knew there is a religion named after him. Especially being EVILvangelical Hippochristians that are running these businesses aka "churches". It wouldn't hurt some of You who have made comments to delve into accounts of ancient dieties before Jesus with not only the word for word same story but same reference as some of You have used. IE "the truth" , "the way" all that nonsense, it was used way before Jesus, You guys seriously sound stupid saying things like that but hey, it doesn't matter, people will believe what they feel comfortable with and fight about this bullcrap until the end of time and will never learn.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Jesus is the very YHVH.

I was under the impression that Christians believe that Jesus is the WORD, or the LOGOS, which is the intermediary between the corrupted physical world and the perfection of GOD. Jesus, The Word, The LOGOS is that which emminates from God/Jehovah/Yahweh/Abba as His Word just as our "SOULS" are eminations of HIS BREATH.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Christ, which is actually a Pagan concept from the Eleusinian Mysteries, was explored by Philo in the first century in his study of Plato's LOGOS as the Jewish ANGEL OF THE LORD, an ethereal entity that abides with mankind, reflecting the perfection of heaven, beaming it down to mankind, marking "The Way" home.

Jewish tradition never had expectation nor prophecies of GOD ALMIGHTY himself incarnating as a human being, let alone to be murdered as a sacrifice unto himself.

a reply to: intrptr

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins."

"Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.'"

"I and the Father are one."

"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

"Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

a reply to: infolurker

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Do you understand that these are NOT the words of Jesus of Nazareth?

a reply to: Medicator

Indeed. What better way to insult the one who taught us to ONLY worship the one God, the father in heaven, then to say he WAS God.

a reply to: windword

Jewish tradition never had expectation nor prophecies of GOD ALMIGHTY himself incarnating as a human being, let alone to be murdered as a sacrifice unto himself.

Among the negative views there are also the more positve.
Jesus knew his destiny and he fulfilled it in every detail.
If he were just a man? He would of turned and ran. Took
more than any man to do what Jesus did.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: windword

Jewish tradition never had expectation nor prophecies of GOD ALMIGHTY himself incarnating as a human being, let alone to be murdered as a sacrifice unto himself.

Among the negative views there are also the more positve.
Jesus knew his destiny and he fulfilled it in every detail.
If he were just a man? He would of turned and ran. Took
more than any man to do what Jesus did.

More than any man, but less than God, was Jesus.