Millennials Pick Socialism Over Capitalism

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Teikiatsu

I don't think all their perspectives are flawed and naive. Some of them sure, but all of them? No.

if you haven't noticed they are politically active.

I would say chalking up an entire generations point of view to naive... Is rather obtuse.

By 'they' I am referring to the useful idiots who think 'democratic socialism' is new and innovative.

They must understand that by the early 80s, of the last century, teaching and exposing young freshman college students to socialism was in full swing.

I've heard this talking point before, but have never seen anyone provide evidence that colleges or universities were actively "exposing" students to socialism, except in regards to studies on history and economics.

I think this is nothing more than rhetoric and talking points.

But you really wouldn't know would you? I know it is aggravation to find out you may be the latest dupe sold a bill of goods as something new and exclusive for your generation ect.

Yes, I would know. You are regurgitating the same nonsense that has been said ad nauseum for years. Instead of actually look in in to this topic and educating one's self, it is much easier, aka- the easy way out, to simply say democratic socialism is communism. In doing so, it forces the other side to defend itself against accusations that are illogical.

Can you prove the things you have asserted? Can you prove socialism is being forced on young people in college?

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Teikiatsu
a reply to: Logarock

I really have to question if you guys know what you are talking about, or if you are just spitting-out the overused rhetoric and hyperbole you have been exposed to.

This can be seen in the incorrect and ignorant jump from democratic socialism to full-blown communism.

It's absurd.

Now what some may not know reading here is that these sort of responses, above, are generally what are called first level defense mode talk. Accusing opposition of rhetoric and hyperbole.

a reply to: Logarock

To say democratic socialism is communism is hyperbole.

What some people may not know is that your responses are what some people would call "talking out of your ass".

You have no clue what you are talking about and that can be seen in this statement:

are generally what are called first level defense mode talk.

Generally? So that therm has been used before? By whom?

Methinks the smell of bull# is in the air.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Teikiatsu

I don't think all their perspectives are flawed and naive. Some of them sure, but all of them? No.

if you haven't noticed they are politically active.

I would say chalking up an entire generations point of view to naive... Is rather obtuse.

By 'they' I am referring to the useful idiots who think 'democratic socialism' is new and innovative.

They must understand that by the early 80s, of the last century, teaching and exposing young freshman college students to socialism was in full swing.

I've heard this talking point before, but have never seen anyone provide evidence that colleges or universities were actively "exposing" students to socialism, except in regards to studies on history and economics.

I think this is nothing more than rhetoric and talking points.

But you really wouldn't know would you? I know it is aggravation to find out you may be the latest dupe sold a bill of goods as something new and exclusive for your generation ect.

Yes, I would know. You are regurgitating the same nonsense that has been said ad nauseum for years. Instead of actually look in in to this topic and educating one's self, it is much easier, aka- the easy way out, to simply say democratic socialism is communism. In doing so, it forces the other side to defend itself against accusations that are illogical.

Can you prove the things you have asserted? Can you prove socialism is being forced on young people in college?

Well if you were smart you would have noticed that I was probably giving you my credentials as to why I am not just spouting talking points. But maybe you did notice thats why you are attacking me as "illogical".

a reply to: Logarock

Well if you were smart you would have noticed that I was probably giving you my credentials as to why I am not just spouting talking points.

I must have missed the list of "credentials" you provided. Please share.

But maybe you did notice thats why you are attacking me as "illogical".

Lack of logic is illogical, regardless of the credentials of those being illogical.

a reply to: introvert

Democratic socialism is simply a tool phrase. Makes it all more palatable to the west. Its socialism by democracy not revolution. Socialism is simply a transition term.

a reply to: Logarock

Democratic socialism is simply a tool phrase. Makes it all more palatable to the west.

Anything with the word socialism throws-up red flags for many people, especially those on the Right that have been brainwashed through propaganda to despise the word regardless of context. Placing Democratic in front of socialism does not make it any more palatable.

Its socialism by democracy not revolution.

True. If it was socialism via revolution it would be considered the beginnings of communism, but in this case that is not so. I'm glad you admitted that distinct difference.

Socialism is simply a transition term.

No, it's an economic and ideological term that does not have to lead to the extremes of communism. Just as capitalism does not necessarily lead to fascism.

I thought bush was the antichrist who would never leave office. Wasn't Obama supposed to radically transform this nation into the 4th Reich? Now the same fear mongers are bitching at Bernie.

It would be mildly amusing if it wasn't so utterly predictable. It's boring. No thanks, I choose not to participate in the circus.

a reply to: amazing

So wait... Are you implying everyone is not 100% in line with Burke's beliefs or 100% in like with Paine's beliefs? We're individuals?

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Bluesma

The thing is socialism has been around awhile. We can look at it in action with decades of results to research. Its really an old fogy idea to begin with. Its been ever expanding in this country over the decades. The only "new" thing going on here is......nothing but decades old socialist wet dreams being attached to a new generation bs and nincompoopery.

As bad or worse than most other systems its a skim plot. Lots of skim looting takes place in the implementation of progressive ideas. All the way from massive bank interest on borrowed money to socialist politicians investing in "public housing".

Yeah, socialism exists in varying degrees and forms all over the world, and though we grew up with the idea that socialism = communism, we are essentially blind to the facts that the young people aren't. That there are countries with more socialism than the US, that are doing BETTER than the US, in some areas. That having more socialism in some countries did NOT make people lose their "freedoms" or private property, or opportunity for entrepreneurship. They've been going along like that for a long time. So our cries of alarm at any mention of the word are easy to push aside.

It is normal that that scares the heck out of us- we're stuck in our ability to envision.
Like continuing to see any sort of change as continuing to exist within a system of fiat money.....

originally posted by: Teikiatsu


People like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot depended on the population thinking like this to achieve power.

Ooh! Oooh! Watch out! Don't innovate, don't try new things! Don't take any risks ! Because then you just might FAIL!
See- a list of people that tried new things in the past, and FAILED!

That approach to life is quite common. Thankfully, not all humans are prone to fear of unknown to that extent.
There are still others who ignore that and create and investigate, explore and discover, innovate and grow, no matter what the system is that they are in.

a reply to: ketsuko

I think you partially misunderstand my poorly presented views... I'd like to see a 'best of' mix of the left/right.

You have some valid points as far as a "it's all futile, humans suck and won't do anything without the economic Sword of Damocles hanging over them" view...

and though I think Marx has been drowned in a mire of propaganda and the societies attempting a flavor of his views have ended up as hells on Earth, and lost the basic humanistic and kind impulse his ideas came from in the first place, he was rational and we'll end up in some form of his ideas down the road... and won't need the tyranny of 'making everyone see the wisdom of working for each other' at gunpoint, either ...

but not now... not yet.

But economic business as usual will end up with us ALL dead... and I hope that's not up for argument, I've looked around, seen the reports and it's a fact... and I'm not accepting of the misery of fellow humans who, for whatever reasons, cannot compete as well (or happen to be born in areas the wealthy portions use as dumping grounds/slave labor) in the mean time. Even those "not deserving" are human.

It's not all "stupid, lazy" people suffering and dying now... down in the trenches you'll see folks exactly like you.. .hardworking, smart, proud... but with no options at all. It's heart breaking.

The bare math facts are that we DO have enough for all and increased automation will afford even more, along with more free time (or read mass unemployment) ...so what we gonna do?

A resource distribution program that takes care of basics (food, shelter, clothing, education, transport) but leaves the "able bodied go-getters" to amass/rise as they want just seems a nice, logical compromise to me. Yes, there will be limits... but so what? There should be!

I think we're smart enough to do it. Not trying just seems lazy and fatalistic to me. Total transparency in governance (except for defense particulars, of course) seems the first step.

eta: Slavoj Žižek has some interesting things to say, as well... I think he makes some eloquent sense, anyway.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Teikiatsu
a reply to: Logarock

I really have to question if you guys know what you are talking about, or if you are just spitting-out the overused rhetoric and hyperbole you have been exposed to.

This can be seen in the incorrect and ignorant jump from democratic socialism to full-blown communism.

It's absurd.

Now what some may not know reading here is that these sort of responses, above, are generally what are called first level defense mode talk. Accusing opposition of rhetoric and hyperbole.

Yep. They can't counter the accusation, so they divert and insult.

originally posted by: introvert
No, it's an economic and ideological term that does not have to lead to the extremes of communism. Just as capitalism does not necessarily lead to fascism.

Considering capitalism does not lead to fascism, that's a false comparison.

originally posted by: Bluesma
That there are countries with more socialism than the US, that are doing BETTER than the US, in some areas.

Name them, and the metric by which you determine 'better'

That having more socialism in some countries did NOT make people lose their "freedoms" or private property, or opportunity for entrepreneurship.

That would depend on how much freedom/property/business rights they had prior to their country's current state. It's not apples to apples. In many cases, those socialist nations have begun freeing up their regulations and offering more opportunity than was previously available.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: corvuscorrax

With age comes wisdom, and experience.

Politicians love taking advantage of younger people because most don't know any better.

So 'dumb' is pretty much calling it like it is.

You can't fix stupid. I'd say that the dumb people that got duped as kids by politicians all grew up to be duped as old people. Age doesn't automatically make you intelligent, nor wise.

originally posted by: Bluesma

originally posted by: Teikiatsu


People like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot depended on the population thinking like this to achieve power.

Ooh! Oooh! Watch out! Don't innovate, don't try new things! Don't take any risks ! Because then you just might FAIL!
See- a list of people that tried new things in the past, and FAILED!

I'm all for innovation and political experiments, on the State level. Not the Federal. We have specific enumerated powers that the federal government is not to exceed.

Socialism is not innovative. It is the antithesis of innovation. It is static.

That approach to life is quite common. Thankfully, not all humans are prone to fear of unknown to that extent.
There are still others who ignore that and create and investigate, explore and discover, innovate and grow, no matter what the system is that they are in.

And that's fine, on the local level. If it works, other people can adopt those ideas. But they should prove themselves without government assistance or subsidy.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Is that so?

As a person that has lived under Carter,Reagan,Bush,CLinton,Bush, and OBama.

I say it age does make a person wise.

Because I can say with all certainty politicians are full of snip. So yeah one truly can't fix stupid.

That's politicians prey on them.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: introvert
No, it's an economic and ideological term that does not have to lead to the extremes of communism. Just as capitalism does not necessarily lead to fascism.

Considering capitalism does not lead to fascism, that's a false comparison.

What a weird reply. You do realize that's not what he said, right? Feels like a trolling position to be taking. Just begging for someone to take you on.

a reply to: neo96

Seeing a bunch of different Presidents in action doesn't make you wise, intelligent, or aware either. The gullible will always look for things to satisfy their gullibility, because opening your mind to new or foreign paradigms is anathema to them.