Was Jesus the Antichrist?

a reply to: Rex282

YOUR logic is flawed.

The whole Anti Christ - True Messiah message is like a built in self defeat, if I were the Anti Christ I wouldn't be stepping up first because everyone knows the first one to come forward to claim to be the Messiah is actually the Anti Christ.

Note to the real Anti Christ - don't step up fist or else your found out !

a reply to: Rasalghul

Perhaps TheAntiChrist is one of JesusChrist's alternate ATS logons.

You know, alternate logon accounts, like you have.

a reply to: chr0naut
Wow an angry person online making false allegations yet claiming to be a christian!!! Never thought I'd see the day.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
You don't know much about Jewish prophetic tradition. There are no double prophecies or double meanings. It's just not how they believe.

So if God has placed a double meaning in prophecy, they're not going to recognise it- which is exactly what the New Testament says about them, viz. that they failed to recognise Christ in the prophecies.

If Matthew was wrong he was wrong. If he was right then his name is Immanuel NOT Jesus.

This is an unnecessary and artificial choice, because people can have more than one name applied to them. Lewis Carroll was baptised Charles Dodgson, Stalin was baptised under a different name which I can't be bothered to look up. People get nicknames.
He was called Jesus by his parents, in accordance with the prophecy/instruction given by the angel- "You shall call his name, Jesus, because he shall save his people from their sins".
At the same time, the prophecy "He shall be called Immanuel" has made itself come true. Christians have observed Matthew quoting it, and as a result they also call Jesus Immanuel.
So he is known by "Jesus", "Immanuel", and also in many other ways, such as "Lord" and "Christ".
You too have probably had more than one name and nickname in your life, even before you came to ATS. Some people will have called you "son". perhaps some people will have called you "darling" or "Daddy"? Having more than one name in use a normal part of human life. No conspiracy involved.

Jesus is not the English version of Yeshua, Joshua is.

Let me explain something to you.
Jesus is the English version of IESOUS, which is the Greek version of the Hebrew name behind Joshua.
So "Joshua" has come from that name directly, and "Jesus" has come via the Greek.
That is why, if you read Stephen's speech in Acts in the AV, you will discover that it was Jesus (i.e. Joshua) who crossed the Jordan and led the Israelites into the promised land.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: chr0naut
Wow an angry person online making false allegations yet claiming to be a christian!!! Never thought I'd see the day.

I'm not angry, I'm laughing at you with my tongue poking out.

But, perhaps you aren't gnosisfaith, essene616, 33Iam666, 369elyon or areyousirius360. I could be entirely mistaken.

a reply to: chr0naut
I think you missed one.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I disagree. If the prophecy says Immanuel and he isn't named Immanuel(not called, named), he isn't the Messiah.

Also one is an El based name, the other Yahweh based. Two different gods.

a reply to: chr0naut
You're definitely mistaken.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
I disagree. If the prophecy says Immanuel and he isn't named Immanuel (not called, named), he isn't the Messiah.

And where exactly in Isaiah ch7 does the prophet say that Immanuel is going to be the Messiah? Show me (in order to do that, you will need to read the chapter, as I've been recommending all along).

Matthew's quotation of the Immanuel prophecy is our sole reason for treating it as a Messianic prophecy.
So if Matthew is wrong, Immanuel was not the name of the Messiah in any case.
And if Immanuel was not the name of the Messiah, that takes away your reason for claiming that Matthew was wrong.

a reply to: DISRAELI

You know exactly where it is, you know what it says.

If the prophecy wasn't about Jesus, and Matthew quoted it in error, then the gospel of Matthew is untrustworthy.

If it was about the Messiah, then his name is Immanuel NOT Jesus.

a reply to: Rasalghul
You don't know where it is, which is why you're not quoting it.
There is NO statement in Isaiah ch7 identifying Immanuel as the Messiah.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I can't believe that a divinely inspired book can make that mistake, applying the wrong passage to Jesus is erroneous. Are you saying the bible is not inspired by The Most High? That is what sets it apart from other religions, the claim that it(bible) is without error.

But you insinuated that Matthew could have been wrong. A clear sign that God was not involved. God makes no errors.

a reply to: Rasalghul
No, I said;

Then while Matthew is telling the story of Jesus, he recognises similarities in a number of Old Testament passages, including this one, and therefore quotes them as prophecies.

I don't see anything wrong in that, so I'm not calling him wrong.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
· I know it sounds crazy but hear me out. Matthew 1:23 " Look, the virgin will conceive and bear a sone, and they shall NAME HIM EMMANUEL," which means, "God is with us."
· Then in 1:25 they name him Jesus. Does anyone else find that odd? For the record, Isaiah is the book containing this prophecy in 7:14-15. The virgin birth is only inthe greek, but that's another issue.
· So it got me thinking, could Jesus himself be the antichrist? It sounds crazy at first, but why would they name him Yeshua( Joshua), and why do we call him Jesus, when the prophecy says Immanuel?

Let me ask you this....

Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
The mighty God,
The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace."

So, by your own logic..." why do we call him Jesus, when the prophecy says "mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace..."? An understanding of the difference between names and titles of ancient times is a huge key in the information you're seeking...Just as an example...the scriptures go by many "names"...some of which may be considered titles...

Why do we call it "the bible"...when we could just as easily call it "Book of the Law, Gospel, Holy Scripture, Law of the Lord, Living Words, Message of Christ, The Scroll, Sword of the Spirit, Truth, Word of God" etc etc.?

The answers are only as difficult as you make them.

A2D

a reply to: DISRAELI

I've read the bible, all of it. I'm not playing by your rulesi I could find it in ten seconds. Im not going to play your game. You know whereit is, the same passage quoted in Matthew from Isaiah.

I'm surprised if you don't know it, with all your knowlege you should. I know it. You say Isaiah doesn't mention Immanuel? Wrong. Matthew has it, and they were told to NAME him Immanuel, in the gospel. That's a fact. But they don't. And no explanation is given.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Divinely inspired authors don't make those mistakes, it is a problem. God was literally inspiring him and he made a mistake? No.

What makes anyone think anything 'divine' had anything to do with creating this dream world? People are so indoctrinated into their own special religious cult, it's amusing to watch at times. How can anyone who claims to be rational believe in any of this? at all? bueller?

a reply to: DISRAELI

And I already posted the passage for that prophecy in this thread. Isaiah 7:14. How many times do you have to hear it.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
You say Isaiah doesn't mention Immanuel? Wrong.

You are wrong, because I never said that.
I said that Isaiah mentions Immanuel, but never calls him Messiah. And that is the case. You do not know of, and cannot find, any statement in Isaiah that Immanuel would be the Messiah.

Matthew quotes the statement that a child would be called Immanuel, and assigns it to Jesus as a prophecy about himself.
And that prophecy was fulfilled. Christians DO use Immanuel or Emmanuel as one of the names or titles of Jesus.
You are desperately trying to make something out of nothing. It's not there, you know.