Why as libertarian I would consider voting for Bernie Sanders

a reply to: MystikMushroom

He seems to be ok with the money in politics that HE'S receiving.

originally posted by: TheBulk
a reply to: MystikMushroom

He seems to be ok with the money in politics that HE'S receiving.

Which are from individuals, not corporations.

So...not a good argument. Would you rather the government pay for all elections? They will always cost money, there's no getting out of that.

~Tenth

a reply to: MystikMushroom

This is more about the longer-term game plan than the next four years. Getting a handle on the money being used to influence our government seems to be primary issue number ONE before we can start doing anything else.

Exactly.

We can't fix or even discuss anything else until we fix and tackle ISSUE #1 Corruption and conflict of interest in DC.

a reply to: interupt42

I would personally like to see progress rather than another deadlocked congress. Not sure the country can take another 4-8 years of this stagnation. Bernie will definitely shine some light on the problems that plague us. But he really doesn't have any solutions that would work inside the framework of our society. It would only further that divide making our government even less effective.

Congress needs to be taught a serious lesson! They are the real problem. Like a spoiled child they need to be reminded who is boss.

Only way I see fixing the problem is threatening their game.
Impose very short term limits(Sorry Bernie).
Abolish lobbying, Super PACS, and corporate donations.
Among other things.
Our politicians really need to be held accountable for their actions.

People(voters) really need stop voting down their party lines as well. Take a good hard look at the people representing you in congress. If their ideals are not in line with yours don't vote for them simply because they have a "D" or an "R" next to his/her name. Find a better candidate or don't vote! One of our biggest problems is an ill informed voting public. People don't take the time to really look at the people they vote for anymore. Relying on the MSM to inform us properly is actually becoming dangerous.

a reply to: Blueracer

You're going to vote for one of your listed causes of corruption's candidate in hopes that it un-corrupts itself.

I never claimed he would get elected or win the DNC endorsement. As a matter of fact I don't really expect him to win it and it will go to the evil witch of DC.

In the unlikely event he does win ,than he might be worth the risk for the long term benefits in exposing corruption in DC.

Even if he is part of the corrupted system he would still have to maintain the same rhetoric or piss off lots of people that supported him. Rhetoric concentrating in conflict of interest in DC is still a good thing, because it exposes the masses to the issues in DC while all the other candidates talk about party ideals or symptoms of corruption.

However, even if he is part of the corrupted system and doesn't talk about the conflict of interest in DC once he gets elected, than he is no better or worse than the rest before him. However, even that opens up a large group of people who believed in him on how corrupted the system is.


The bottom line is I see no other viable candidate focusing on corruption in DC as the number one issue do you? Even if he doesn't deliver he is still worth the risk for the long term benefits of exposing the masses to the rampant corruption in DC.

There is nothing more important than tackling and bringing corruption in DC to the forefront , its even more important than party ideals.

What is your strategy to get a third party candidate elected under a corrupted system?

a reply to: JAY1980

I would personally like to see progress rather than another deadlocked congress.

Progress with our congress is a deadlocked congress. The times it hasn't been deadlocked it has not worked out to well for us.

1. War
2. Bailouts.
3. GMO Labeling.
4. Patriot act
5. Obamacare.
6. TPP
7. h1 visa expansions.
8. Foreign aid over domestic aid
9. War on drugs which funds could be put to better usage
10. etc...

Congress needs to be taught a serious lesson! They are the real problem.

Agreed.

Like a spoiled child they need to be reminded who is boss.

Unfortunately, they have demonstrated time and time againt that they and the Oligopolies are the real boss.

Only way I see fixing the problem is threatening their game. Impose very short term limits(Sorry Bernie). Abolish lobbying, Super PACS, and corporate donations. Among other things. Our politicians really need to be held accountable for their actions.

Absolutely, but that wont happen as long as people keep focus on the symptoms of a corrupted gov't and not the corruption itself.

a reply to: interupt42

Exactly. To quote House of Cards:



One bite at a time -- and I think this might be the right bite to start with. . .

a reply to: interupt42

You are pulling a Marco Rubio, repeating yourself. His excuse for one instance of corruption is that the American people are sick of hearing about those damn e-mails. Is that how he plans on tackling corruption in DC? No thanks, I need more than just his claims that he is going to do something about it.

What is your strategy to get a third party candidate elected under a corrupted system?

Where did I say that I had a strategy? What I won't do is say that I believe in something but vote for something completely different. I will not vote for somebody who is the opposite of what I believe. Voting for Bernie Sanders but believing in small government would be hypocritical of me. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil. Too many people are worried about voting for someone just because they think they'll win.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower

originally posted by: TheBulk
a reply to: MystikMushroom

He seems to be ok with the money in politics that HE'S receiving.

Which are from individuals, not corporations.

So...not a good argument. Would you rather the government pay for all elections? They will always cost money, there's no getting out of that.

Not 100% true. Sanders has taken about $200,000 from the "Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee" which itself has taken gobs of money from Wall Street corporations. So Sanders is not quite as pure as he would like us all to believe.

OP, it doesn't look like you're getting any converts from your fellow Libertarians here. You're kind of sticking out like a sore thumb here.

a reply to: Blueracer

What I won't do is say that I believe in something but vote for something completely different. I will not vote for somebody who is the opposite of what I believe.

Your believe has nothing todo with anything , its about long term strategy which you say you don't have.

Its about bringing focus to the corruption in DC that is keeping viable third party candidates from getting heard. Its about getting the masses focused on the one real issue , that is effecting everything else including party ideology which is corruption.

How do fix the US if you don't focus on corruption and conflict of interest in DC? What other candidate is doing that?

Even if he does nothing but bring focus to corruption and conflict of interest in DC we are one step closer to heading to the right direction.

a reply to: schuyler

OP, it doesn't look like you're getting any converts from your fellow Libertarians here. You're kind of sticking out like a sore thumb here

What makes you think that was my intention? I typically debate to either reinforce my logic or change it. So far I think he is still worth the risk when compared to the rest.

The libertarian party has no chance of ever getting a fair shot as long as the system is corrupt. The system will stay corrupt as long as corruption is not the main focus of debates or issues.

What other candidate from the two party system is bringing corruption to the forefront like Bernie?

BTW it brings me no joy going this route, but I see no better option for the long term to open the doors for third party candidates. How can a third party be heard in a corrupted system and how can you fix that corruption without first talking about it?

Whats your game plan for this election and what is your thought on the number 1 issue in the US?

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Blueracer



Your believe has nothing todo with anything , its about long term strategy which you say you don't have.

You are wrong. My belief has everything to do with what, or who, I vote for.

Its about bringing focus to the corruption in DC ...

You are sounding like a broken record. It is nonsense to vote for the corrupt in the hopes of ending corruption.

a reply to: Blueracer

You are wrong. My belief has everything to do with what, or who, I vote for.

Chess is about strategy and long term outlook not just the next move.

Your political belief doesn't matter if it never comes to fruition.

You are sounding like a broken record.It is nonsense to vote for the corrupt in the hopes of ending corruption.

Whats your game plan to fight a corrupted system that you appear to be playing and participating in?

Or do you care to repeat yourself and say you don't have one?

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Blueracer





Your political belief doesn't matter if it never comes to fruition.

Well at least I can say I didn't go against my own principals. Your beliefs do not matter if you do not stand by them.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Blueracer




Whats your game plan to fight a corrupted system that you appear to be playing and participating in?

Or do you care to repeat yourself and say you don't have one?

What is your game plan? Voting against your own principals and trying to convince others to do the same? That appears to be the only leg you are standing on.

originally posted by: Blueracer

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Blueracer




Whats your game plan to fight a corrupted system that you appear to be playing and participating in?

Or do you care to repeat yourself and say you don't have one?

What is your game plan? Voting against your own principals and trying to convince others to do the same? That appears to be the only leg you are standing on.

I'm not voting against my principles? Are you not familiar with long term strategy and making sacrifices in the short term for the long term goals?

The strategy for the last century has not been working out to well for third party candidates. Perhaps its time to accept reality , and use the hand you have to eventually get what you want.

I'm open to suggestion on a better strategy to get a third party candidate elected or have something good come out of this election? The methods from the last few decades do not appear to have worked.

originally posted by: interupt42








I'm not voting against my principles?

Based on what you said, yes you are voting against your principals.

You have said the following in the very thread:

I believe that we need the smallest gov't possible today...

...I believe in libertarian ideals

... I also think that the worst thing we could do today with our govt is to implement a socialist program as suggested by the self proclaimed socialist Bernie Sanders.

I voted for Ron Paul...

I believe in smaller gov't...

So while I completely disagree with his ideals...

I stated he is a socialist and that I believe in small gov't...

I have no real problem with anyone voting for who they want. I'm just not buying what you are selling. I just thought it was funny that you tried to pass yourself off as a Ron Paul small government Libertarian who is going to vote for big government Bernie Sanders. I'd bet my bottom dolalr that you were never a small government Libertarian. But that's just me.

I am done here. Have a nice day.

a reply to: interupt42

You are here, pitching something because you want people to tell you this idea is a good choice.

Saying you are a Libertarian, or are of the Libertarian mindset and saying Sanders is your choice is about as polar opposite as you get.

And if you think Sanders will bring "truth" to light, your kidding yourself.

a reply to: Blueracer

You are still not seeing the point nor reality. Your libertarian principles means nothing if they never get implemented.

A third party candidate or libertarian will not get elected under the current corrupt system. Its that corruption and your mentality that is keeping a libertarian from being elected.

Your strategy of lack of one as you stated yourself is not working. The strategy within the last 5 decades haven't worked either.

Bernie is not my ideal candidate for a long shot , but he is the only one I see in this election that can bring the very same corruption that is keeping a third party candidate down , to the forefront.

You attack but provide no possible solution to the reality of the situation .

I just thought it was funny that you tried to pass yourself off as a Ron Paul small government Libertarian who is going to vote for big government Bernie Sanders. I'd bet my bottom dolalr that you were never a small government Libertarian

Go look at my history and see how I have been pro ron paul:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: interupt42

You have lost your mind. Libertarian? I wonder.