Why as libertarian I would consider voting for Bernie Sanders

I believe that we need the smallest gov't possible today, because of rampant corruption and conflict of interest in DC. Hence I believe in libertarian ideals .

It makes no sense to give an entity that is corrupted or has conflict of interest more power and money.

However, whether we like it or not its a two party game.

The Republican endorsed candidates, despite their rhetoric have been no different than the democrats. Both have given us : bigger gov't, bailouts , world conflicts, more taxes, more debt, less personal individual rights, and more corporate friendly laws at the cost of the upper middle-class and below.

Having said that, I also think that the worst thing we could do today with our govt is to implement a socialist program as suggested by the self proclaimed socialist Bernie Sanders.

However, I can overlook his socialist views because in reality the president is very limited on what actions he can really take.

The Benefit that I see from a Bernie Sanders presidency is the possibility of the American public hearing the truth for the first time, in regards to the real intentions behind lobbyist drafted regulations that our congress currently robo-signs.

Bernie Sanders speaking truthfully and putting focus on the number 1 issue in this country being monetary influences in congress, makes it worth taking a risk with him. Rather than ending up with the same corporate friendly candidates coming from the GOP and the DNC like Hillary herself.

The president wouldn't be able to implement socialism, unless congress backed it up. In such a case it would get done anyways regardless of the president.

Sadly third party candidates get no equal playing time , no news coverage, and no debate spotlight what so ever, hence they have zero to no chance of getting elected.

What I envision in a Bernie Sanders presidency is a deadlocked congress for the most part , but a vocal president in exposing the truth of what goes on behind the scenes.

Exposure to the Masses coming from such a high ranking individual in gov't with MSM coverage is a must in order to change the system.

He is also the only candidate that I have seen that passed the immigration litmus test. He stated that our economy is highly dependent on illegal immigration and and they are coming here because Americans companies are hiring them.

That's like saying you would vote for Hitler because he would tell us the truth that the Jews were the real culprits and besides, the Bundestag would never implement his policies so we'll be safe from National Socialism.

Then why not support Gary Johnson or someone who is actually a Libertarian? Anybody who truly considers themselves Libertarian would not seriously "consider voting for Bernie Sanders". But I suppose everybody does something sometimes that Libertarians agree with. Even Bernie.

Ron Paul on Bernie Sanders:
“On occasion, Bernie comes up with libertarian views when he talks about taking away the cronyism on Wall Street, so in essence he’s right, and occasionally he voted against war,” the former Texas congressman said when asked if there was a candidate who was truly for the free market." Ron Paul Slams Cruz And Hillary: They Are Both "Owned By Goldman"

That is not a ringing endorsement from the most popular Libertarian in US politics. And as a Libertarian myself, I could not in good conscience vote for Bernie Sanders.

a reply to: schuyler

That's like saying you would vote for Hitler because he would tell us the truth that the Jews were the real culprits

Only if you are saying that you believe the jews were the real culprits?

I believe corruption is the number issue in congress which is in-line with what Bernie is saying.

In reality the majority of the country believes this as well but they allow themselves to be persuaded to look at the symptoms an not concentrate on that corruption.

a reply to: interupt42

I can see the appeal of Sanders as a person and as a possible anti-establishment candidate. If it were between him and say Bush and Christie I would consider voting for him as the lesser evil, but I do consider him 'evil' in that his ideas for Government and the country are anti-Libertarian and worst of all invasive.

Ultimately I prefer a candidate that will make the LEAST impact of my life. I want a candidate that will keep Government small and basically leave me and my family alone. Sanders is NOT that guy.

a reply to: interupt42

At reddit I have been seeing libertarians posting daily that they are supporting Sen Sanders. I find this trend a sign of just how fed up all americans have become with the corporate rule.

This may be more of a sign that, libertarians feel that our corporate nomination and election processes is not a system to favor their candidates i.e. Ron Paul. edited to add: I feel that by voting for Sanders they are voting against citizens united, corporate lobbyists and the revolving door policies.

What ever the reason as a supporter of Sen Sanders, I say thanks! and welcome aboard.

a reply to: Blueracer

Then why not support Gary Johnson or someone who is actually a Libertarian?

Because he and any other third party has no realistic chance of getting elected. They cycle has been played over and over with the same results.

The best outcome of this election from what I can see is Bernie putting focus on the rampant corruption in DC as a president.

. And as a Libertarian myself, I could not in good conscience vote for Bernie Sanders.

I voted for Ron Paul and its not about good conscience its about doing the best with what you got. Bernie Sanders is at-least talking bout the Real issue in congress.

A third party candidate has no chance of getting the nomination. Having said that in reality Bernie has very little chance of getting the DNC nomination himself but he has a better chance than a third party candidate.

a reply to: Metallicus

but I do consider him 'evil' in that his ideas for Government and the country are anti-Libertarian and worst of all invasive.

Can the president really do that without congress behind him. Like I said I forsee a lameduck congress under him.

Ultimately I prefer a candidate that will make the LEAST impact of my life. I want a candidate that will keep Government small and basically leave me and my family alone. Sanders is NOT that guy.

Agreed, but I have yet to have see a DNC or GOP endorsed candidate that has done that.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

At reddit I have been seeing libertarians posting daily that they are supporting Sen Sanders. I find this trend a sign of just how fed up all americans have become with the corporate rule.

IMO we can't discuss party ideology while their is corruption in DC. We must first expose the corruption so we can fix the system.

Once we fix the corruption than we can get back to what is the correct party ideals to implement. Right now all I see is Oligopolies getting their way while BOTH republicans and democrats give us bigger gov't , more taxers, more debt, and less individual personal rights.

My vote for sanders is not based on his ideals but rather the need to fix the real issue in DC which is corruption. He is the only one that is bringing it to the forefront.

Trump jumps sides and in the end is all about trump. While I have little faith on Bernie, I have zero faith on Trump and the rest including Hillary.

originally posted by: interupt42


Because he and any other third party has no realistic chance of getting elected.

The reason they have no chance is because people like you do not stick to your guns.

...its about doing the best with what you got.

But Sanders isn't the best that we got. I'm not saying Johnson is either. But Libertarians believe in smaller government. That is not Sanders. So you are no Libertarian.

Voting for a socialist and thinking you will get less government and more personal liberty is like allowing yourself to be bitten by a great white shark because you know it's only taking an experimental nibble and doesn't really mean to eat you.

a reply to: Blueracer

The reason they have no chance is because people like you do not stick to your guns.

You can say and think that all you want, but the sad reality and the real reason that a third party candidate has no chance is because of corruption and manipulation of the masses by the GOP, DNC, and the MSM.

You must first expose the corruption before a third party candidate ever has a chance.

But Sanders isn't the best that we got. I'm not saying Johnson is either.

I didn't say he was the best we got. He is the best CHANCE we got to expose corruption . Then maybe down the road third parties might get a better shot.

But Libertarians believe in smaller government. That is not Sanders. So you are no Libertarian.

I believe in smaller gov't read my post again. I never claimed that was sanders, ream my post again.

However, I don't think their is one Ideal ideology that is best for all circumstances. Right now I think what is more important ,even more than ideals themselves is exposing Corruption in DC. Which what Sanders claims to be.

As long as we have corruption in DC no ideology will win except for oligarch.

I'm looking long term not near term since that hasn't worked out to well for a third party.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Voting for a socialist and thinking you will get less government and more personal liberty is like allowing yourself to be bitten by a great white shark because you know it's only taking an experimental nibble and doesn't really mean to eat you.

Name one viable politician that wouldn't expand government when elected.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: schuyler

That's like saying you would vote for Hitler because he would tell us the truth that the Jews were the real culprits

Only if you are saying that you believe the jews were the real culprits?

No, not "only." You're taking my post out of context and leaving out the best part. Both Sanders and Hitler decided there were Bad Guys(tm) causing all the economic problems. Hitler concentrated on "Jews" as the culprits. Jews were "the bankers." Sound familiar? Sanders concentrates on "Wall Street" and "billionaires" as the culprits, i.e.: "The bankers." The method of propaganda is the same: vilify a group, blame them for all your problems, and promise to "get" that group. Sanders suggest we tax the hell out of the rich and for the record, Hitler NEVER SAID he would actually kill 8 million Jews; He just vilified them in speeches and let his henchmen do the dirty work without telling the German people, many of whom were as shocked as anyone when they found out what happened. The German people, by and large, were not a "bunch of Nazis." They were pawns in the game.

So, do you get it yet? Same tactics:

1. Vilify a group.
2. Blame all economic woes on them.
3. Promise to take care of them.
4. Get elected.

That's your game plan. And I'm claiming that your game plan is like voting for Hitler because the Bundestag will never implement his ideas anyway so we're safe from National Socialism. Take your idea, transform it to pre-WWII Germany, and you have the same exact plan.

It's very naive and very dangerous. If you truly are a Libertarian, your tactics, if fruitful, will get you the exact opposite of what you believe in.

a reply to: interupt42

Bernie Sanders is a Socialist...
Have you ever seen a small Socialist govt.???

Not to libertarian now is it?

originally posted by: ketsuko
Voting for a socialist and thinking you will get less government and more personal liberty is like allowing yourself to be bitten by a great white shark because you know it's only taking an experimental nibble and doesn't really mean to eat you.

Invalid analogy in order to be valid: you must add two other sharks to the tank that have been eating at me for years and have taken both my legs and arms.

My argument is that the president is limited in his power and that a Bernie presidency would lead to a lame duck congress. The only thing that would come out of it , is that people would realize how rampant corruption is in DC.

Until we get rid of corruption in DC no third party has a chance, PERIOD.

So while I completely disagree with his ideals I think the attention he brings to corruption is the best we can do now for a third candidate down the road.

a reply to: DogMeat

Read my post again. I stated he is a socialist and that I believe in small gov't and why.

However, the biggest issue this country faces is corruption and no political ideology besides an oligarch is getting their chance at the spotlight.

This is more about long term return for third party candidates then political ideals.

a reply to: schuyler

So, do you get it yet? Same tactics:
1. Vilify a group.
2. Blame all economic woes on them.
3. Promise to take care of them.
4. Get elected.

And I'm claiming that your game plan is like voting for Hitler because the Bundestag will never implement his ideas anyway so we're safe from National Socialism.

It still doesn't stand because all the primary candidate have the same tactics. A politician tells you what you want to hear . So worst case we end up with more of the same.

There is no threat for a socialist gov't , because we already have something worse: an oligarch .

Bernie Sanders from what I have seen from all the other candidates in this race is the only candidate concentrating on the real issue which is corruption.

Is their a risk that Bernie is like the rest yes, but at least he is speaking the truth and bringing focus to the REAL issue unlike the rest.

IMO I think he MIGHT be worth the risk for the long term in opening the doors for third party candidates. Its because of corruption that no third party candidate has a shot.

a reply to: interupt42

One thing I'll say...

I can understand/appreciate the smaller government mentality -- I really can and do.

Getting MONEY OUT of campaigns and politics an only serve the help that agenda.

Even if Sanders wants to pay for more things -- it isn't like he's federalizing a bunch of services run by the states themselves, or creating a huge swath of new federal programs.

I do get why some folks who want smaller government may not like Sanders. I do.

But to me, when you look at it from all angles...Sanders trying to get money out of politics is probably going to do a lot more good than any of his other ideas will do harm.

I can't really say that about any of the GOP candidates.

EDIT: I saw you last post -- seems we kind of agree. This is more about the longer-term game plan than the next four years. Getting a handle on the money being used to influence our government seems to be primary issue number ONE before we can start doing anything else.

The people are NEVER going to have a voice as long as huge companies are pouring millions into campaigns and lobbyist groups. We just don't matter to those voting in congress.

Until we matter -- until our representatives truly represent US and not special interests...nothing either side wants on an ideological level will take place.

Period.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Blueracer



You can say and think that all you want, but the sad reality and the real reason that a third party candidate has no chance is because of corruption and manipulation of the masses by the GOP, DNC, and the MSM.

You must first expose the corruption before a third party candidate ever has a chance.

That's ridiculous. You're going to vote for one of your listed causes of corruption's candidate in hopes that it un-corrupts itself.

I didn't say he was the best we got. He is the best CHANCE we got to expose corruption . Then maybe down the road third parties might get a better shot.

There are accusations of corruption against Bernie as well. Recent example

Plus he condones Hillary's apparent corruption by brushing it off as the american people are tired of hearing about it. “Let me say something that may not be great politics. But I think the secretary is right, and that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails.” Bernie on scandal

I believe in smaller gov't read my post again. I never claimed that was sanders, ream my post again.

In other words, you talk the talk but you don't walk the walk.

However, I don't think their is one Ideal ideology that is best for all circumstances. Right now I think what is more important ,even more than ideals themselves is exposing Corruption in DC. Which what Sanders claims to be.

People should know by now that we can't trust politician's claims, no matter how good they sound. Hope and change sounded great. That got Obama elected. Most people didn't get the hope and change that they wanted.

I'm looking long term not near term since that hasn't worked out to well for a third party.

Time is now!