Theory that may help explain the Problem Of Evil

originally posted by: chr0naut
Think of the "Evil has befallen us, and the whole village dying of the plague!" kind of definition for the word. Like I said, I was speaking of "evil" in greater context than it being something 'morally bad', which implies intent.

But that defines evil as a force and thus a noun. Besides, we know now that a whole village dying from the plague is the result of poor sanitation and pest control. Not evil.

But Satan's fall (the initial evil) was not on Earth as far as I know. So I don't think it is a purely terrestrial thing.

What about that event is evil exactly? Isn't what Satan did the same as the American colonies rebelling against England?

Perhaps you could re-state your question because I thought I had answered?

Can you describe to me evil on a galactic or universal scale? How would humans perpetuate it?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: chr0naut
Think of the "Evil has befallen us, and the whole village dying of the plague!" kind of definition for the word. Like I said, I was speaking of "evil" in greater context than it being something 'morally bad', which implies intent.

But that defines evil as a force and thus a noun. Besides, we know now that a whole village dying from the plague is the result of poor sanitation and pest control. Not evil.

But Satan's fall (the initial evil) was not on Earth as far as I know. So I don't think it is a purely terrestrial thing.

What about that event is evil exactly? Isn't what Satan did the same as the American colonies rebelling against England?

Perhaps you could re-state your question because I thought I had answered?

Can you describe to me evil on a galactic or universal scale? How would humans perpetuate it?

I know of no moral evil, or situations causing such, on a galactic or universal scale. As far as I know, only God would be able to effect things at those scales and He is not evil (according to James 1: 13 & 1 Corinthians 14: 33).

Humans could not perpetuate evil on a galactic or universal scale. At some distant future time, it may be possible (although unlikely) that humans could attain to a type 3 civilization on the Kardashev scale.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: chr0naut
Think of the "Evil has befallen us, and the whole village dying of the plague!" kind of definition for the word. Like I said, I was speaking of "evil" in greater context than it being something 'morally bad', which implies intent.

But that defines evil as a force and thus a noun. Besides, we know now that a whole village dying from the plague is the result of poor sanitation and pest control. Not evil.

But Satan's fall (the initial evil) was not on Earth as far as I know. So I don't think it is a purely terrestrial thing.

What about that event is evil exactly? Isn't what Satan did the same as the American colonies rebelling against England?

Perhaps you could re-state your question because I thought I had answered?

Can you describe to me evil on a galactic or universal scale? How would humans perpetuate it?

I know of no moral evil, or situations causing such, on a galactic or universal scale. As far as I know, only God would be able to effect things at those scales and He is not evil (according to James 1: 13 & 1 Corinthians 14: 33).

How do you know this? Wouldn't an alien civilization that manages to rank itself on the Kardachev Scale be able to effect things on those scales?

Humans could not perpetuate evil on a galactic or universal scale. At some distant future time, it may be possible (although unlikely) that humans could attain to a type 3 civilization on the Kardashev scale.

This is contradictory. You say we can't do things on these scales then leave open the possibility we could rank ourselves on the Kardashev scale. Which means that theoretically we COULD perpetuate evil on those scales. We just aren't able to do so currently.

Evil might as well be a sign of weakness and conceit really, where they are not willing to endure, and are always seeking the path of least resistance, where the ideal of Good is taking whatever thrown at you, but at your expense, and not at others. Thing is a bout Goodie two shoes, is that they don't know when to say no, have some conceit or ego when its needed.

Why is it cheaters complain and bitch about honor and fair game, when they have none and know nothing about it, and end up being the victim.

As for Gods existence, and not doing good...People used to think it was God when something bad happens, on bibical levels. A whole city got wiped by a tsunami, or swallowed by the earth, or hit by the fist from the Heavens on the good, the bad, just as equally as the young or old.

Hell, I could blame God, for having a bird crap on my head. Then there the whole questions of piety, and test of faith...Thing is how far does one have to go to prove their faith.

Wouldn't that be the question when it comes to Abrahamic Theologies.

A theory I like to call "the secret of life":

OK so this may seem harsh, but its really not, I promise.

Our lives on earth are not important in the grand scheme of things, that is not to say that you should want to just commit suicide right now...no don't do that.

Humans are tormented, plagued with disease, fatigue, homelessness, mental disabilities, etc. and are also adorned with wonderful bodies, good looks, good health, riches, etc. Some experience the highs and lows in the same lifetime (like me), and some may only experience lows or highs.

Karma wants balance, that is all. THis is all the work of Karma. I probably sound like I am regurgitating Edgar Cayce, I am, but only bc it feels right to me to say so. He made all my random thoughts make more sense.

Life itself is NOT important, what you do with it is. YOu MUST understand we are all connected and your intent in all that you do must be to help someone else...to make them happier. Your job in this earthsuite you are in now is to try and live in the moment.

Yes you can say bad Karma is the devil and good karma is god...you can believe what you want, but there IS good and bad.

If you are good in this life, then your next life will be good. There is a goal to attain enlightenment and you can choose to stay there or come back to earth and live another life or something like that, I don't quite know all the details. But you cannot attain it if you are mean, just learn to live in the moment and everything will fall into place.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: Dark Ghost

For those unaware, the Problem of Evil can be broadly defined as follows: since bad things such as pain, misery and suffering take place in our world, how can people believe in an all-powerful, all-knowledgeable and all-loving God?

Pain? a bad thing?

I have heard that child birth is one of the most painful experiences for some women but at the same the most joyful thing happens in their life from that pain.

as Kumiho points out

Right from wrong, evil from good is relative to whom you are asking

each has their own view or perception of whats good and evil.

What about when it's a year or so after the "birth" and the teen mom hits the child because it won't stop crying, so it cries even harder, waking up the mom's 200 pound boyfriend who, coming in enraged, proceeds to beat the child to death for waking him...

Is that pain "a bad thing?"

What about when it's 13 years after the "birth" and the drug addicted mom sells her child to a guy who makes 'snuff' films, and the 13 year old gets slowly, sexually, tortured to death for a film for sickos to watch on the dark web...

Is that pain "a bad thing?"


Anyone who says that there is no 'objective' evil in the world, really has their head in the sand...

a reply to: butcherguy

I needed that giggle. Things were getting heavy everywhere (ThIngs were scary with a neighbor's husband who might have been in a fire. I call myself an agnostic gnostic but I was sure praying buckets an hour ago!).

So, my two cents...I was about to have some left over chicken and my husband added a hard boiled egg. Something akin to catholic guilt seeped through my pores. One or the other. Not both. I just consumed a family. I consoled myself with the thought that both were already dead, and then remembered that question of which came first, the chicken or the egg, and somehow I had a new answer. Both. Or as I heard on Johnny Carson once, "Neither. Campbell's chicken noodle soup came first."

I used to go to daily Mass and then I would rush off to a metaphysics group. I soon discovered that when I was at church, I had to defend my involvement at the other group and when I was at the group, I had to defend my involvement at church. I sighed and quit both. I miss both but not enough to return. During the transition I noticed that I'd enter the church happy and leave depressed. It took a few days of observation to notice the words I always never heard: Lord I am not worthy...bow your heads and pray for God's mercy...through my fault, through my fault, through my most nauseously unending disgustingly and unforgIvable infinite faults.

But let me tell you how I really feel (that was a joke). What I don't like about the old view is the idea that God is something or someOne outside of me. Now, I wouldn't blame Him, but seriously, for me, I'm more peaceful with the all inclusive notion. It allowed me the freedom to quit questioning His judgement although I still do at times.

My apologies. I feel I am writing this from a jaded perspective and you folks are doing a great job by yourselves. I didn't mean that the way it came out! Say good night, Gracie...

If I can get my act together I'll return with perhaps something of quality.

a reply to: Prezbo369

i am my god.. god is just the mind that lives here. dont talk about "my god" as if you know anything about me, my beliefs, or my experiences. "god" sets up rule sets, thats it. you start with a big bang and these rules(gravity, evolution, etc) and the whole thing grows. the mind incarnates into this universe and learns. its not just about morality. its about alot of things. mostly evolution. and evolution works best when lower states of entropy are being achieved. so immorality and fear go against evolution. there would be no purpose to even setting up a reality such as this one if everything was controled from the top down. a person has to be able to make choices. no choice no purpose.

i dont care about youre morality or how you want to compare it to a mythical creation of Catholicism or Christianity. thats not god, thats a story.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

doesnt matter. he'll reincarnate. learn something new the next time around.

Oh my gosh! Forgive me! I thought that when I hit reply to a post on page 2, that it is inserted on page 2. How heartless we can inadvertently appear. This is like miniature golf with a cadence all its own. Please allow me to tip toe away...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: chr0naut
Think of the "Evil has befallen us, and the whole village dying of the plague!" kind of definition for the word. Like I said, I was speaking of "evil" in greater context than it being something 'morally bad', which implies intent.

But that defines evil as a force and thus a noun. Besides, we know now that a whole village dying from the plague is the result of poor sanitation and pest control. Not evil.

But Satan's fall (the initial evil) was not on Earth as far as I know. So I don't think it is a purely terrestrial thing.

What about that event is evil exactly? Isn't what Satan did the same as the American colonies rebelling against England?

Perhaps you could re-state your question because I thought I had answered?

Can you describe to me evil on a galactic or universal scale? How would humans perpetuate it?

I know of no moral evil, or situations causing such, on a galactic or universal scale. As far as I know, only God would be able to effect things at those scales and He is not evil (according to James 1: 13 & 1 Corinthians 14: 33).

How do you know this? Wouldn't an alien civilization that manages to rank itself on the Kardachev Scale be able to effect things on those scales?

Humans could not perpetuate evil on a galactic or universal scale. At some distant future time, it may be possible (although unlikely) that humans could attain to a type 3 civilization on the Kardashev scale.

This is contradictory. You say we can't do things on these scales then leave open the possibility we could rank ourselves on the Kardashev scale. Which means that theoretically we COULD perpetuate evil on those scales. We just aren't able to do so currently.

I qualified, twice, in my first paragraph, that I was replying to the best of my knowledge. That does not preclude things beyond my knowledge.

I also speculated (using the wording "it may be possible") in the second paragraph, there is no contradiction in what I wrote.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Prezbo369

i am my god.. god is just the mind that lives here. dont talk about "my god" as if you know anything about me, my beliefs, or my experiences. "god" sets up rule sets, thats it. you start with a big bang and these rules(gravity, evolution, etc) and the whole thing grows. the mind incarnates into this universe and learns. its not just about morality. its about alot of things. mostly evolution. and evolution works best when lower states of entropy are being achieved. so immorality and fear go against evolution. there would be no purpose to even setting up a reality such as this one if everything was controled from the top down. a person has to be able to make choices. no choice no purpose.

i dont care about youre morality or how you want to compare it to a mythical creation of Catholicism or Christianity. thats not god, thats a story.

Then your god (you w/e) is a negligent caretaker, a negligent parent/pet owner. I'm not talking about some form of cosmic North Korea where the ultimate authority controls everything, but stopping the very worse some of us go through. Something that your god figure thinks is not worth the effort, apparently...

a reply to: Prezbo369

not a care taker, not a guardian. just a thinking living thing. like me and you. but lets go hypothetical. sometimes i think "god" will intervene. when it can. not overtly, cant do that, goes against the rule set. but if my belief is correct we are god. its our job to reach lower states of entropy through cooperation and compassion. we need to take responsibility. thats the beauty of this. we make the choice.

you have a misconception that a belief in god has to be a belief in a man in the sky that kills people when he gets angry. that shi1$ fack1ng stupid.

btw im not telling you what you should believe, just sharing my personal viewpoint to maybe help you get another viewpoint. one that isnt based around holy books and myths. i think this is a simulation. god is just us living this thing we created. by doing this we can learn, make decisions, evolve, love, fear, and so on. i think that its great. people only suffer because we have the ability to make decisions. without this ability why even bother living here?

a reply to: Krazysh0t



it does exsist ive seen it

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Krazysh0t

doesnt matter. he'll reincarnate. learn something new the next time around.

When did reincarnation enter the picture?

a reply to: chr0naut

Well the way I see it, if evil exists, it HAS to exist on galactic or universal scales. If we are unable to describe it because we don't know what it would be then we must default to Occam's Razor and say it doesn't exist. Therefore evil doesn't exist and thus moral relativism is the safest approximation to make about these things.

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: Krazysh0t



it does exsist ive seen it

Well THAT'S the end of the discussion. Some guy I've never met on the internet says that he's seen it with a one line post. Case closed!

So out of curiosity, what makes you an expert on what is and isn't evil? Are you sure that what ever you saw was just beyond your understanding and you just ASSUMED it was evil?

If you know what is and isn't evil just by witnessing it, then explain to me what evil is and how to identify it. Explain to me how this evil could effect things on a galactic or universal scale. Again, the earth is rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things and humans are rather insignificant in the history of earth. So what is so special about us that evil could effect us and why?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

its always been here. just sharing my view point here. i think our purpose is to live here making decisions. the ultimate goal is to learn how to be cooperative and compassionate as opposed to fearful and cutthroat. god doesn't make decisions, we do.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Really? I don't recall anything mentioned in the OP about reincarnation. Your analysis makes sense in the scope of god wanting us to improve ourselves to be non-violent. I'm just not sure it applies to this discussion since reincarnation's existence is just as questioned as good and evil's existence.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

you said something and i replied within the frame of how i perceive reality. what do you want from me?