Why stop at socialism. Why not just go full communist?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DBCowboy

So your personal situation reflects the state of our entire country right now? Hardly. We live in a materialistic, self-absorbed, selfish society in America.

Capitalism is a failure, admit it. It has bred a business ethic and political system where personal gain is valued above the greater community. Look at the candidates we have in place, they're selfish and arrogant for the most part, taking money from billionaires and dancing to the tune they play for them.

Your situation does not reflect the bigger picture that's happening in America right now. You saying "I got mine" in so many words is the kind of self-entitled, selfish attitude that has been brewing in capitalistic America for quite some time now. It's about to reach its boiling point and we're all going to get screwed over because of it.

It doesn't matter how much money YOU have saved up, other people aren't making enough money to save up to begin with today. Like I said, your situation does not reflect the current generation that is growing up in our country.

All brought on by liberal desire to have someone take care of you.

We did fine from 1776 - about 1960 then something changed. Umm birth of the liberial dream maybe?
Seem to about the time people stopped working on the "American Dream" and started to want government to take care of them. As he said the death of personnel responsibility. Yes the seeds where planted in the 30's with FDR's input. (Umm we kept Social Security, but dumped the WPA part of the plan. Wonder why?)

No he does not get any credit.

He did not draw the boxs and group them into the proper order.

I had to have my kid show me how to do it because I only have a Masters Degree and was unable to do Common Core.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I don't want your money.

I don't deserve your money.

I didn't earn your money.

I keep what I earned.

You keep what you earned.

Stop paying taxes then.

I wish I could.

The government has shown itself to be a poor steward with MY money.

But if they had everyone's money, then there'd be no issue!

The People's Basement.

The IRS has also shone that it has the full support and ablity to track anyone.

Not so much the TSA,FBI, DEA, Boarder Patrol, or any other government agency, But the IRS ALWAYS finds it man.

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DBCowboy

Bull#, the speed limit affects everyone on the road.

Everyone is affected by medical issues as well. Everyone has accidents that incur medical fees.

Under your socialized healthcare, would doctors and medical staff be paid what they are being paid now?

The Medical Association spends more money than anyone else in lobbying to politicians in order to raise their pay. Their pay is a product of strong arming politicians into approving policies that allow them their current pay, meaning they pay more than oil and defense companies to influence policies.

If you're in the medical field for the pay, you're not doing it for the right reasons. They will be paid more than enough to live off of either way.

There is a reason people from all over the world come to America for medical procedures.

They also go to Cuba and the UK. Funny that.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: deloprator20000

I am not sure what planet you live on if you think this is "unbridled" capitalism.

If it were unbridled, we would not have a massive regulatory bureaucracy and massive interventionalist laws and policies like Dodd Frank and Obamacare to name two. The problem is that we live in a heavily distorted crony state.

Unbridled capitalism? Russia in the early 90s came close. Today's Somalia comes closer still.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DBCowboy

So you're against what our founding fathers stood for? Against the Constitution? Because the Constitution and the founding fathers thought taxes to not only be necessary but essential to our countries foundation. You can't have a functioning country without taxes, you can't have a functioning society without people being taken care of.

Check again. Federal income tax did not start until 1913. There was also a tax imposed in 1861 to cover the Civil War, resended in 1872.

And even today there is some serious disagreement with what is to be "Taxed". Read many articles on this and have studied cases where people have not filed and the IRS could do nothing to them. It all depends on you situation and how much you want to risk. I'm sure there are threads on this on ATS

ehrm... socialism is communism.
they just replaced the word after the cold war.

a reply to: dismanrc

I beileve the founding fathers kept the tariff and excise trade taxes. They had veterans to pay. There have always been taxes to pay.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I don't know about you you selfish cynical git, I however do take personal responsibility in seeing that people are cared for and receive a decent standard of living.

originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DBCowboy

Bull#, the speed limit affects everyone on the road.

Everyone is affected by medical issues as well. Everyone has accidents that incur medical fees.

Under your socialized healthcare, would doctors and medical staff be paid what they are being paid now?

The Medical Association spends more money than anyone else in lobbying to politicians in order to raise their pay. Their pay is a product of strong arming politicians into approving policies that allow them their current pay, meaning they pay more than oil and defense companies to influence policies.

If you're in the medical field for the pay, you're not doing it for the right reasons. They will be paid more than enough to live off of either way.

There is a reason people from all over the world come to America for medical procedures.

They also go to Cuba and the UK. Funny that.

Maybe for cheap procedures. Not for the best.

originally posted by: hudsonhawk69
a reply to: DBCowboy

I don't know about you you selfish cynical git, I however do take personal responsibility in seeing that people are cared for and receive a decent standard of living.

Then volunteer and give your paycheck to charity and people in need. You're as ignorant as you think OP is by dropping comments like this. Giving money to the government in taxes does not make you personally responsible for making sure people are cared for and receive a decent standard of living. This made me laugh.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Because going full communist isn't a very good idea, that's why. Socialism, when implemented properly, is very effective. Our taxes are a form of socialism, but they are for the most part not implemented properly.

Thanks for the laugh.

'very effective' !

At runaway taxes, and massive debts.

The Founding Fathers wrote in the power of TAXATION so the government could function properly, and BE EFFECTIVE.

Two things that are severely lacking in the 21st century.

That power has been bastardized in to paying the peoples bills instead of the government paying it's own.

There is NOWHERE on this planet. NOT even 'europe' does' socialism work.

Hell the only reason China is doing to well now is because the CAPITALISTS in the US and Europe, are pumping trillions in that country.

All so the masses can buy cheap.

People need to get it through their heads.

Forms of government, economies need to be separated for a reason.

a reply to: DBCowboy

What really gets me about ATS at times is how you focus on some ill applied idea of "personal responsibility" instead of thinking "god I wish I lived in a country where poor people didn't die of dental infections because of money"

Study after study after study finds that socialist countries work harder, have happier residents, are usually amongst the top places to live on earth. Communism is an impossible dream, as has been proved over and over. Socialism is doing much better.

Sure I think we're too ingrained in capitalism to ever change anything, but I don't understand why you think socialism is so bad when nothing academic backs up your point, the only thing on your side is angry baseless rhetoric.

originally posted by: belowbelief
a reply to: DBCowboy

What really gets me about ATS at times is how you focus on some ill applied idea of "personal responsibility" instead of thinking "god I wish I lived in a country where poor people didn't die of dental infections because of money"

Study after study after study finds that socialist countries work harder, have happier residents, are usually amongst the top places to live on earth. Communism is an impossible dream, as has been proved over and over. Socialism is doing much better.

Sure I think we're too ingrained in capitalism to ever change anything, but I don't understand why you think socialism is so bad when nothing academic backs up your point, the only thing on your side is angry baseless rhetoric.

Except, you know, history. I find your post baseless (as in, without base). Conjecture and personal opinion have no right to be presented under the guise of empirical evidence.

Greece Illustrates 150 Years of Socialist Failure in Europe

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: hudsonhawk69
a reply to: DBCowboy

I don't know about you you selfish cynical git, I however do take personal responsibility in seeing that people are cared for and receive a decent standard of living.

Then volunteer and give your paycheck to charity and people in need. You're as ignorant as you think OP is by dropping comments like this. Giving money to the government in taxes does not make you personally responsible for making sure people are cared for and receive a decent standard of living. This made me laugh.

I never said that paying taxes makes me personally responsible for dick! Don't put words in my mouth thank you very much!

originally posted by: hudsonhawk69

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: hudsonhawk69
a reply to: DBCowboy

I don't know about you you selfish cynical git, I however do take personal responsibility in seeing that people are cared for and receive a decent standard of living.

Then volunteer and give your paycheck to charity and people in need. You're as ignorant as you think OP is by dropping comments like this. Giving money to the government in taxes does not make you personally responsible for making sure people are cared for and receive a decent standard of living. This made me laugh.

I never said that paying taxes makes me personally responsible for dick! Don't put words in my mouth thank you very much!

You said ...

I don't know about you you selfish cynical git, I however do take personal responsibility in seeing that people are cared for and receive a decent standard of living.

This was in response to someone who does not support the socialist policies presented by Bernie Sanders. My point, which clearly you were too busy coming up with insulting rebuttals to cognize, was that if you believe people should take personal responsibility for others being cared for and receiving a decent standard of living, maybe, just maybe, that should be at THEIR discretion and not forced upon them by the government.

Their discretion being through charity and other selfless personal acts. Forced upon by the government means through taxes.

Also, all these people claiming to be so much about the welfare of others probably (and I say probably because I am sure this is not an absolute proposition) do not volunteer their time, give to charity, etc. If you care so much about others, why do you need to wait for the government to take the money from you to give it to others? Why not give it to them now?

I am patiently awaiting the next nonsensical, assaultive response you come up with (you know, instead of responding to the substance of my comment).

a reply to: DBCowboy
My apologies if this point has been made already, I did not want to sift through twelve pages.

Allow me to clear up a misconception you have about communism. Firstly, stop thinking of 'communism' in regards to what history books and the gubbermint tells you is communism. Because those examples are not true communism. True communism would not place ultimate power in the hands of the few, rather, communism places the power with the community. In a truly communistic society, no man would have power over another, and all would have equal everything. All basic needs provided for, man would be free to pursue whatever interests came to his mind. This is why 'communism' has been slandered and twisted and purported to be evil, because the last thing our slavedrivers want is free thinking, critical minded individuals with vast amounts of time with which to come up with that thing that holds true power, ideas. This is why communism is actually the ideal form of government, if we could be mature enough and sensible enough to maintain it without falling to squabbling and bickering and powergrabbing.

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

We don't live in an ideal world with ideal people, though.

So any "true definition" is simply academic and has no basis in the real world.

a reply to: DBCowboy

We don't live in an ideal world with ideal people, though

Maybe not yet, but its something that if we all strive towards, we will eventually be able to achieve. Humans are not, and are never going to be perfect. Taking this imperfection into account, I don't think it impossible to come up with a system that takes it into account. Something to think on: I've noticed, in my scant 20 years on this planet, that people can hardly ever agree upon what is 'right'. What can often times be agreed upon, however, is the concept of 'wrong'. It is wrong to harm another, if I would not want another to also harm me. Self interest should be applied towards all humanity, imho.

So any "true definition" is simply academic and has no basis in the real world.

True, at this state it is purely academic, but that does not mean we cannot, or should not strive towards that real world base. Then again, I do have a tendency to, when I am not being hypercritical, to be a little too idealogical, so...