Oregon Rancher’s Body Returned To The Family In Shocking Condition

a reply to: Informer1958

This is the US governments way of sending a message that dissidents and vocal anti-government patriots that pose a clear and present danger to the establishment will be utterly disrespected all the way to the grave so as to send a clear message to anyone thinking along the same lines that if you mess with the bull you get the horns.

El Chapo acted in the same way to his competition - there is very little difference between the US government and other criminal organizations yet the global propaganda powerhouse would have you believe they are polar opposites.

Levoy was a problem simply because to the majority of my generation he spoke truth with conviction. He didn't appear to us to be a nutter but a man with deeply held convictions. He wasn't out there screaming obscenities, he was exposing the rotten core of a coalition of government agencies in a way that was garnering far too much attention from Joe and Jane American. He wasn't threatening to anyone except the politicians.
While the "officials" were screeching about vandalism by the "armed militants" he was exposing the failure of the government to carry out their responsibilities.
When those videos began to get widespread circulation, when the protesters starting showing the clean-up they were doing and the poor conditions of this Historic property, it had to end. People were becoming too interested.
I do hope that the family had an independent autopsy done.
My thoughts and prayer are with the family and with all involved.

originally posted by: jaxnmarko
a reply to: Informer1958

I am by no means an apologist for TPOB, but really..... under the circumstances, why would anyone not just, and I mean JUST, raise one's hands or follow WHATEVER directions are given? Making a few moves with one hand towards a possible holster and weapon.... isn't that asking for trouble? He was ambushed/cornered, lotsa uniforms around, lotsa adrenaline.... why ask to be shot? Get peaceably arrested. Make your statements. Get more media attention. Stay alive.

Have you ever been injured? Think back to a time when you slammed your elbow into something, or cut yourself on a nail sticking out, stung by a bee, or whatever else might have happened. I bet you flinched and immediately grabbed for the area.

Now apply that line of thinking to someone who had their hands up and got shot. Of course they're going to reach to where they were hit.

There's no justification for the FBI's actions. The FBI assassinated Finicum.

a reply to: Informer1958

Once again, a nation looks on as failure to apply due process and an overly trigger happy law enforcement community, makes the worst of a bad situation. Only this time, it is not just a nation that sees this unfold, but the whole world, and as we see it unfold, we wonder. We wonder what freedom is, if we have any, and if not, how to get it back, when those who are sworn to protect it, are those most likely to crush the life out of it.

No matter what they found on the body, we all saw the video, and those of us with good eyesight know exactly what happened to the deceased in this case. He had his hands up, and was shot to death. Regardless of whether or not he had a gun in his waistband, or coat pocket, he never reached for the weapon, and so the bullets fired into and through his body, were not justifiable as a response to the threat he posed at the time.

The state in which his family received the body is appalling of course, but it always would have been, given that this was a shooting death involving multiple shooters and one victim. What disturbs me most about the bodies condition however, is that the number of bullet wounds found in the victim by the family, appears to be different than the number reported by the authorities. Now, in a shooting death of this sort, involving officers of the law as the shooters, there should be a strict and rigorous policy involving autopsy. Independent experts should oversee the process, and ensure that every single physical trace of how a person died, every wound on their body, is not only catalogued, but accounted for by the medical examiners office, and made public.

The fact that the body had bullet wounds on it, not accounted for by the official account, six of them, means one of two things. Either no examination actually occurred, which would be an outrageous circumstance given the importance of the events leading up to this death, or the medical examiner was intent on simply rubber stamping the official account, regardless of the reality on the slab before them. Neither of these potential explanations for this discrepancy fills one with over much hope or expectation that justice might be done. We should, I think it is reasonable to say, expect the law enforcement community to lie about things to suit itself in this day and age, no matter where on the planet we happen to be thinking about. It happens too often to maintain any surprise at such a thing anymore.

However we should expect rigour and diligence from scientists, no matter whose employ they might be in. The official account, and the physical evidence do not match, and aside from the obvious, that being a man is dead and has no reason to be, something must have gone seriously, dangerously, and utterly wrong somewhere, in order to allow that circumstance to come to pass. These are dark times. These are dark events and someone, at some time, is going to have to shine a light into this, no matter how stubborn the shadows become. If something does not give in this situation, the result will be harmful, no matter whether it is outright rebellion and all that comes with it, or an increase in the tyrannical power of government agencies to control and even kill the population.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Informer1958

Only this time, it is not just a nation that sees this unfold, but the whole world, and as we see it unfold, we wonder. We wonder what freedom is, if we have any, and if not, how to get it back, when those who are sworn to protect it, are those most likely to crush the life out of it.

There are parts of the world who've questioned our need for a Constitution. Some people around the world, and in our own country, have questioned the need to follow a 237 year old document by claiming it old and irrelevant. This incident is proof that it isn't irrelevant and proof that it is of the uttermost importance.

If we as a country don't come together and recognize, regardless of how liked/disliked the militia cause was, that the FBI committed a blatant assassination of a US citizen on US soil, then hope is lost.

This is the kind of incident that is a turning point. If our government realizes that it can get away with these types of actions in full view of the world, then these actions will increase exponentially.

a reply to: Informer1958

i do mean to be rude but :

dead is a prety shocking condition to get a body back in

Finicum needs to be nominated for a darwin award

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Informer1958

i do mean to be rude but :

dead is a prety shocking condition to get a body back in

Finicum needs to be nominated for a darwin award

Useless post. One of countless.

I think one of the most interesting things to note, the back window to the truck they were driving is clearly shattered BEFORE the crash.

This to me, supports the story that they were fired upon before hitting the road block.

a reply to: Informer1958

Closed casket? Suspicious...even if gross. Then we will never know for sure.

The family can demand and pay and publicize a second autopsy to confirm and reaffirm the facts.

There have been deceased with horrific injuries exposed in open caskets. Thats the only thing I'm suspicious of....but as an EMT/responder....believe me....I've seen a lot of gruesome injuries.

Open with a 2nd autopsy would leave no doubt....

a reply to: EternalSolace

Absolutely spot on.

What is the phrase?

"I disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Does the OP here or anyone else have corroborating evidence for the claims made?

I cannot find any reference to Finicum's body even being released to the family yet, and have only found one reference (in an independent news aggregator in the area) to the family receiving results of an independent autopsy Jan 30-31 which they did not release.

heraldandnews.com

The family secured a private autopsy on Finicum’s body that was completed Saturday. The family didn’t release the results.

The Oregon Medical Examner's office apparently performed the autopsy on Finicum January 28, 2016:

The Oregon State Medical Examiner's Office performed an autopsy on January 28, 2016 and confirmed the identity of the deceased person as Robert LaVoy Finicum, age 54, of Freedonia, AZ. The results of the autopsy are not available at this time.

www.ktvz.com

I find it difficult to accept that Mr. Finicum's body was released with no announcement of findings, etc.

Are the sources in the OP deemed ... reliable in this case?

a reply to: elementalgrove

I find it shocking that in 2016 people still think 1980s action flick shooting applies to real life.

Even in the UK, who I think pretty much everybody can agree has a far, far more strict approach to use of deadly force, armed response officers are trained to shoot center mass. Not knees and elbows and toes, but center mass.

As for the OP - I think getting remains back in "shot, dead" is a pretty shocking condition in and of itself. While I understand the complaint about the shot to the face, it strikes me as an appeal to emotion.

One that is apparently working.

Being shot upwards of 10 times is pretty standard police practice nowadays.

Another source from Feb. 2, 2016, which corroborates that the family had an independent autopsy done, but have not released the details of that autopsy (still nothing about Mr. Finicum's body being returned):

www.oregonlive.com

The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy.

.

Again, are we sure that the information presented here is correct?

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Informer1958

This is the US governments way of sending a message that dissidents and vocal anti-government patriots that pose a clear and present danger to the establishment will be utterly disrespected all the way to the grave so as to send a clear message to anyone thinking along the same lines that if you mess with the bull you get the horns.

El Chapo acted in the same way to his competition - there is very little difference between the US government and other criminal organizations yet the global propaganda powerhouse would have you believe they are polar opposites.

Sublimecraft, that is exactly what I think. Thanks for posting it.

The citation in the link provided in the OP to the site which is citing its information from lozzafun1 as its source comes back Page not found ...

lozzafun1

Anyone have anything?

The only other piece of evidence presented in OP is a photo of an alleged Facebook post from "Barbara Davis" ... which also seems questionable according to several independent newssites:

Freedom Outpost’s Tim Brown expressed a fair amount of skepticism over this photo, and rightly so:

Only two sources are claiming the information about the shooting. The first comes from a Facebook post, which was not captured in a normal fashion. Instead of being shared or embedded or even screen captured, a camera picture of this post appeared.

Frankly, because there is no link, it is highly suspect.

We agree, and spent some time searching Facebook for this post. We first searched for a “Barbara Davis” with the profile picture shown above and was unable to find one. That in itself means nothing, since profile pictures are easy to change and some people change them quite frequently.

conservativefiringline.com

Also from the source referenced in this latest source from Tim Brown at freedomoutpost.com :

I have been completely unable to confirm whether or not a handgun was planted on Finicum's body or whether or not he was, in fact, shot 9 times. Yet, I think it appropriate to hold in check until it can be verified reports that are now going out concerning this information

Only two sources are claiming the information about the shooting. The first comes from a Facebook post, which was not captured in a normal fashion. Instead of being shared or embedded or even screen captured, a camera picture of this post appeared.

Before you all continue the statements of righteous indignation ... I'm seriously wondering if you guys are the victims of a HOAX here ... "Deny Ignorance" ... remember?

a reply to: mysterioustranger

I do hope they do another autopsy report and send it out to be looked over. I don't even understand how the person doing the first report could miss six extra holes one being in the head. If we get a really good detailed autopsy form with clear marking of locations, it might shed a different light on the story.

I'd also like to see more details on the weapon found. It's already been said it was reported stolen two years ago. A lot can happen in two years so I'd wonder where that weapon has been and who had it last.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Re the Barbara Davis post about the 9mm being stolen:

Anyone have anything?

Here's what I know. Someone posted a link to Rense.com in another thread, which took you to a page with a pic of the Barbara Davis FB post about the 9mm. It didn't look like a FB page, but it was basically just a screen capture of the text. Right below it was another screen capture from what looked like some kind of social media venue, but I didn't recognize it. (Maybe Google+ ? I don't know). This spoke to the fire that killed Shawna Cox's son-in-law, and below the text were the names of Ammon and I believe O'Shaughnessy(sp?), maybe Payne and Cavalier also. I don't remember.

It looked very odd, and didn't seem right. And it wouldn't copy and paste, so I transcribed verbatim the 9mm post, and most of the fire post, but I did edit that. I don't frequent Rense.com, so I didn't know if that was normal for there. But it was taken down again from Rense.com pretty quick. If I remember correctly, it was gone within an hour of when the link was posted on the ATS thread. This was a couple days ago. Several of us saw it and commented on it. We did talk about possible bogus postings... and I said I wouldn't be surprised if it was bogus info just posted to muddy the waters and discredit the individuals/groups etc. I've watched for, but have not seen, any confirmation from the Bundys, or the Cox family, or even Barbara Davis and the PPN (who is reputed to have searched the serial number on the gun. I'm not sure how they got the serial number though, if it was released from the OPD or what).

If I remember corrrectly, one ATSer mentioned seeing the Barbara Davis post on FB and shared it on their FB page. As I understand it, Barbara Davis is the girlfriend of Pete Santilli (who is still in jail).

While I'm at it, the rumor that Victoria Sharp is LaVoy's daughter is incorrect. I don't know where that came from originally, but it's not true. Her family is from Kansas, and they sing together as a group, and had gone to the refuge to perform for the protesters. I believe she was intending to sing at the meeting in John Day.

a reply to: Boadicea

So ... no corroborating evidence beyond the questionable Facebook post?

I know you've been following this, and I want you to think about this:

The independent autopsy results were provided to the family over the weekend (Jan 30-31).

The family made a public announcement yesterday (Feb 2).

They said nothing about nine bullet wounds. Does that make sense?

Does it make sense that no other source (mainstream or independent) is substantiating the story?

Does it make sense if this were the case, and the family had the body in their possession, there would not be photographs posted on the internet?

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: Informer1958

Shot in the face, who does that?

Not sure if you are familiar with Mark Passio and his work, but this presentation pretty much sums up the kind of mentality that has been cultivated in the servants of the elite.

Order followers without conscience is all they are.

Yes, and much to mine and many others dismay, our 'protective' forces WILL turn and fire upon us if ordered to do so.

See how easy it was to get this to happen? How easy our LEO's shoot and kill us, our animals?

Don't kid yourself. It is happening every day. It doesn't take the whole body to turn, with even a few leaders and their minions, they can become mass murderers. Just look at history.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Boadicea

So ... no corroborating evidence beyond the questionable Facebook post?

I know you've been following this, and I want you to think about this:

The independent autopsy results were provided to the family over the weekend (Jan 30-31).

The family made a public announcement yesterday (Feb 2).

They said nothing about nine bullet wounds. Does that make sense?

Does it make sense that no other source (mainstream or independent) is substantiating the story?

Does it make sense if this were the case, and the family had the body in their possession, there would not be photographs posted on the internet?

Well, actually, yes, it does... to me. I have been in their position; i.e., a family member was killed in a horrific manner and it became national news. If you haven't been there, you wouldn't believe the freaks and scumsuckers that crawl out from under rocks to exploit the situation for their own purposes. Worse than ambulance chasers. When ordinary people are put in extra-ordinary situations, especially when not just grieving but trying to deal with the horror of how your loved one died, it's surreal. I don't want to say paralyzing, but I'm sure it can be for many. And in our case, law enforcement was on our side. (They were awesome and amazing and I will be forever grateful to them for their hard work, not to mention their integrity and honor.) At least we could put our faith and trust in them, while we muddled through it all. I cannot imagine how I would have felt if law enforcement were not our friends...

In our situation, both our attorney and the prosecution successfully petitioned the court to have the autopsy photos sealed, though the written report was released to the media per FOIA requests. Our interest was in protecting the privacy of the family (including the children of the deceased), and protecting the dignity and memory of our loved one. The Finicum family will have many of the same concerns, and many additional different concerns, I'm sure. Even if their privacy and dignity is pretty much shot to hell at this point. I am not in their position so I cannot speak to their specific circumstances, but I can sure understand why they would not release autopsy results immediately. If nothing else, they need to work through the initial shock and grief, consider their options, their end goals, put on their Armor of God and prepare to face the public, etc.

They're just people too.