Shawna Cox and Victoria Sharp's Interviews Match Precisely- LaVoy Finicum WAS Murdered in Oregon

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: akira131

There is a long list of very questionable actions by people in that group. Like I said though.... many people tried to warn them but unfortunately they would not listen. They trusted the wrong people.

This ^^^. Their grievances were legitimate. Their solutions were not. And are not. Even if they had "taken" the refuge, and limited their demands to a pardon -- or a commuted sentence -- from the president for the Hammonds, I could have supported that civil disobedience. I think they would have gotten far more support if they had stuck with their original mission which was the unjust dual sentencing for the Hammonds. Just put a laser on that one injustice...

Instead they've gone off on several tangents, and some are pretty self-serving, and many are just a serious misunderstanding of natural and Constitutional principles. Who is coming up with this stuff? Is this what they've come up with themselves? Is someone unknown feeding it to them? I have felt many times that someone is deliberately sabotaging the legitimate issues for the craziness.

But the issues are just so big and widespread, and the Bundys and the Hammonds and the Standoff and the FBI and the BLM are all just parts of a much greater problem. I have seen discussions about learning from the many many mistakes of this protest, and refining their methods, to make sure nothing like this can happen again. I hope they do. I'm so tired of excuses, and so tired of defeatist attitudes, and so tired of the whining. We know what the problems are. Let's put aside our petty bickering, get together on the big issues and the big principles that affect us all -- such as ALL lives matter -- and find solutions... make solutions. We are not helpless unless we choose to be.

Hate to Burst your bubble, but we are Helpless. What the Government wants, the Government gets, and We the People have financed Our Undoing...Best we can do is shut our faces and be good lil Sheeple

a reply to: beyondtruth

I think this whole thing is getting bent out of proportion as a thread that was posted a few days ago with OP...

That was me.

...saying that without a doubt Finicum was murdered in cold blood...

Allow me to quote myself from that OP:

If what she says is true, this was an ambush... and intended to be a massacre. Cold blooded murder.

Nor did the title of the OP assert fact, but took the form of a question, leaving doubt:

[Oregon Standoff] Was LaVoy Finicum Shot w/Hands in the Air? Eye Witness Audio Testimony Here...

But for the record, I now have no doubt this was an ambush and a death trap created by the FBI and others. My only question is if they really did try to slaughter the folks left in the vehicle in cold blood. We'll know when/if they release the vehicle for public viewing and examination.

I respectfully ask that you please not talk about me in the third person. Please do not misrepresent my words and posts. And please do not respond. I have nothing more to say to you...

originally posted by: akira131

originally posted by: SPECULUM

originally posted by: akira131
a reply to: MALBOSIA

I am as well. Which is why I lean towards no one being completely honest. Like beyondtruth said, everyone here has an agenda.
5 people can witness the same event 5 different ways.

but he either had a gun or he did not. seems to me there is a lot of mis/dis-information

Doesn't matter whether he had a gun or not, His second Amendment Assured him of this. Fact is, they were shooting at them before he even left the Vehicle, Which ended any way of defending himself in a court of law. They never intended for him to Survive, they murdered him in cold blood, because he had a beef with them

I somewhat agree with this. which is why I said the LEO's should have protested themselves by standing down. They did not and now are responsible. But killing someone in cold blood is walking up and killing them without provocation. There was plenty of provocation here. You can't start waiving a gun and expect to get sympathy when someone shoots back and that is basically what they were doing at this refuge. They knew better than to expect the feds to do nothing. Of course they wanted an armed confrontation but not before they were given the psychological angle they needed first which the occupiers gave them in troves.

If you really want to show the world the boot on your neck you do so without arms and be ready to die for it. Let them beat you in the streets while you sit passively taking it. Then everyone sees the emperor's new clothes. You go in making demands and stating intent to die, then you will get what you asked for from the feds but not before they demoralize everything you stand for. So that no one else can do such a thing with anything resembling popular support.

They weren't even on "federal land" when they were Ambushed. That within itself Proves The government never had any intention of being Civil. Personaly? Bundy's Bunch never had a leg to stand on, and they made Fatal Errors. Threatening the Government isn't the Answer....Never make Threats

a reply to: centarix
I heard someone on another forum today say that the technology exists to target individual phones, so the cell coverage may be fine for others? I don't know at all, my tech knowledge is just average.

a reply to: beyondtruth
Evidence in this case? psshh. Look at what's being presented as evidence so far(controversial video, hearsay and two shaky but mostly corroborating witness statements) and tell me there is going to be any solid evidence of anything unless or until it comes out in civil court.
But, do you honestly think all of those LEOs just stood there (except for hero cop) with their guns in their hands as that truck attempted to go around the roadblock?

originally posted by: SPECULUM

originally posted by: akira131

originally posted by: SPECULUM

originally posted by: akira131
a reply to: MALBOSIA

I am as well. Which is why I lean towards no one being completely honest. Like beyondtruth said, everyone here has an agenda.
5 people can witness the same event 5 different ways.

but he either had a gun or he did not. seems to me there is a lot of mis/dis-information

Doesn't matter whether he had a gun or not, His second Amendment Assured him of this. Fact is, they were shooting at them before he even left the Vehicle, Which ended any way of defending himself in a court of law. They never intended for him to Survive, they murdered him in cold blood, because he had a beef with them

I somewhat agree with this. which is why I said the LEO's should have protested themselves by standing down. They did not and now are responsible. But killing someone in cold blood is walking up and killing them without provocation. There was plenty of provocation here. You can't start waiving a gun and expect to get sympathy when someone shoots back and that is basically what they were doing at this refuge. They knew better than to expect the feds to do nothing. Of course they wanted an armed confrontation but not before they were given the psychological angle they needed first which the occupiers gave them in troves.

If you really want to show the world the boot on your neck you do so without arms and be ready to die for it. Let them beat you in the streets while you sit passively taking it. Then everyone sees the emperor's new clothes. You go in making demands and stating intent to die, then you will get what you asked for from the feds but not before they demoralize everything you stand for. So that no one else can do such a thing with anything resembling popular support.

They weren't even on "federal land" when they were Ambushed. That within itself Proves The government never had any intention of being Civil. Personaly? Bundy's Bunch never had a leg to stand on, and they made Fatal Errors. Threatening the Government isn't the Answer....Never make Threats

They were "ambushed" by State Troopers within their jurisdiction..

a reply to: SPECULUM

Ok, well, maybe it is just semantics at this point. Did they ambush them? yes I believe that is not only obvious but should have been a forgone conclusion of those going to and from the refuge.

Was it in cold blood? no, because this situation was provacative "meet our not so much outlined demands or.. we will die here" that is provocation.

Did they try to callously kill those remaining in the vehicle? well, after Finicum's death, there are obvious flash bangs going on and I do believe on more than one occasion there were poofs of smoke from the windshield as if they were firing into the vehicle.

If the only shots that were fired were at Levoy, then how did Ryan Bundy get wounded? This is about all one can see from the video. If there were hundreds of shots into the vehicle then how is it everyone else came out unharmed?

It is a crap shoot. The only ones who know the truth are those who were there and the only ones talking are the 2 women for the most part. So if this is not one way or the other then it would be logical to assume it's somewhere in the middle and the LEO's involved should go public. And do so before anyone else dies or this festers into something it shouldn't be. I think it is up to those who were there to go public and do so from both sides. put away the emotion and just TELL THE TRUTH because if it is as bad as the occupiers claim then I have no doubt the feds will force anyone who knows the real story into silence.

We have to just tell the truth and do so regardless of what that means. It's bigger then one person or a group of people, this is about the future of our entire country and people need to be ready to do what's right. Doing what is right is never easy but living in fear isn't either. Atleast if they are honest and come forward they can sleep at night and will know they have support and help.

My .02 cents

a reply to: dreamingawake

Thank you for the link!

I'm a little worried about those left at the refuge... I don't think they've been heard from for at least a couple days.

a reply to: Boadicea

Yeah, I think they have been on the line with one of the shows today listen here:


And apparently, Cliven Bundy has served notice via certified mail to the US government that "We the people are going to retain ownership of the refuge."



Woah. So what if they go arrest Bundy for that threat? Man... Man... Hope this doesn't escalate. Other reports of some 2500 people headed there. Don't know if that's true.

a reply to: Boadicea
This was posted today. It seems the call was made today as well.


hmmm. here's the link:

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: TrueAmerican

Where did you hear about the 2500 other people?

a reply to: onequestion

I wouldn't put too much stock in that. Heard it before, and nothing. Besides, what are they going to do even if they DID show up? Shoot the roadblocks out to get to the refuge? Ha, no friggin way. If that happened the National Guard would be called in with tanks. Or predator drones with hellfires would be used.

I don't know how Cliven Bundy is figuring to claim the refuge. I have no clue. Certainly not forcefully? I don't know.

I'm now listening to this update from Burns:

a reply to: OveRcuRrEnteD

Ok. I don't know that I have much more to add. But I'll ask these questions... is this what we really want? People are acting like this is Lexington and concord but is it really?

Are we ready for a civil war? because if we continue this path that is what we will get. I have yet to see a million people March on any capitol in peace by showing force in numbers and solidarity. Do we really believe this will end well?
Can we not see the psyop we are playing into? I mean seriously is it just me????

We have yet to put together any kind of mass peaceful protest to work outside of the crooked system yet we are going to base our "new revolution " on something we can't even come together on as being right???

Idc if I get flamed santille and his people make me sick. Time will tell who the moles are as they will get either lighter sentences or let off completely. Man.... I don't know... we haven't even tried mass protest and refusal to work with the system but we can go ahead and just start this?

Am I crazy? Show me the truth show me how we have done the leg work to go to this place now when we haven't even tried to educate the masses. These threads are all over. The "calls to arms" are many but how is it we are doing right by our country by giving up and fighting each other when we have yet to put together any concerted effort at real activism. I can't see how this isn't an usurpation of the truth/freedom movement.

Obviously I don't hold a popular view on this. But to me it's like a teenager wanting independence and when he doesn't get his way instead of proving he is a responsible adult he just runs away from home and takes the family car and all the cash he can find.

Put up video of fireworks and short sound bites of protest and "murica murica join the revolution". Show me 1 million of the 320 million in this country stand together for ANYTHING for 2 days and I'll join your movement. Expect people to believe this is anything but a psyop purpatrated by those who want to kill the movement yet give no real mass consensus. ... blah...

originally posted by: akira131
a reply to: OveRcuRrEnteD

Ok. I don't know that I have much more to add. But I'll ask these questions... is this what we really want? People are acting like this is Lexington and concord but is it really?

Are we ready for a civil war? because if we continue this path that is what we will get. I have yet to see a million people March on any capitol in peace by showing force in numbers and solidarity. Do we really believe this will end well?
Can we not see the psyop we are playing into? I mean seriously is it just me????

We have yet to put together any kind of mass peaceful protest to work outside of the crooked system yet we are going to base our "new revolution " on something we can't even come together on as being right???

Idc if I get flamed santille and his people make me sick. Time will tell who the moles are as they will get either lighter sentences or let off completely. Man.... I don't know... we haven't even tried mass protest and refusal to work with the system but we can go ahead and just start this?

Am I crazy? Show me the truth show me how we have done the leg work to go to this place now when we haven't even tried to educate the masses. These threads are all over. The "calls to arms" are many but how is it we are doing right by our country by giving up and fighting each other when we have yet to put together any concerted effort at real activism. I can't see how this isn't an usurpation of the truth/freedom movement.

Obviously I don't hold a popular view on this. But to me it's like a teenager wanting independence and when he doesn't get his way instead of proving he is a responsible adult he just runs away from home and takes the family car and all the cash he can find.

Well, all of the Federal Government employees that were involved in this hit need to be charged with Conspiracy to Commit Murder. 18 U.S. Code § 1117

Give them a fair trial - unlike what they have done for LaVoy Finicum.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

So is the dispute between the protestors and the locals over?

originally posted by: akira131
a reply to: OveRcuRrEnteD

Ok. I don't know that I have much more to add. But I'll ask these questions... is this what we really want? People are acting like this is Lexington and concord but is it really?

Are we ready for a civil war? because if we continue this path that is what we will get. I have yet to see a million people March on any capitol in peace by showing force in numbers and solidarity. Do we really believe this will end well?
Can we not see the psyop we are playing into? I mean seriously is it just me????

We have yet to put together any kind of mass peaceful protest to work outside of the crooked system yet we are going to base our "new revolution " on something we can't even come together on as being right???

Idc if I get flamed santille and his people make me sick. Time will tell who the moles are as they will get either lighter sentences or let off completely. Man.... I don't know... we haven't even tried mass protest and refusal to work with the system but we can go ahead and just start this?

Am I crazy? Show me the truth show me how we have done the leg work to go to this place now when we haven't even tried to educate the masses. These threads are all over. The "calls to arms" are many but how is it we are doing right by our country by giving up and fighting each other when we have yet to put together any concerted effort at real activism. I can't see how this isn't an usurpation of the truth/freedom movement.

Obviously I don't hold a popular view on this. But to me it's like a teenager wanting independence and when he doesn't get his way instead of proving he is a responsible adult he just runs away from home and takes the family car and all the cash he can find.

Put up video of fireworks and short sound bites of protest and "murica murica join the revolution". Show me 1 million of the 320 million in this country stand together for ANYTHING for 2 days and I'll join your movement. Expect people to believe this is anything but a psyop purpatrated by those who want to kill the movement yet give no real mass consensus. ... blah...

These guys have had communications cut off but they can still have people call in for interviews? Idk maybe it's cuz I work in IT and I know it works both ways. When you cut coms you take over the signal carrier. You control all going in and out. That is just how it works. You tap into main lines if needed but in this day and age it's not really needed. You can target specific cells specific signals and you control data flow both ways over analog, digital and fiber. That is just how it works and we are talking about organizations with near unlimited resources. They can do things ppl like me only wish I had the tech to do... and I can do A LOT

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: TrueAmerican

So is the dispute between the protestors and the locals over?

Maybe for today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Some say about half of the locals are opposed to the outsider protesters. Which means it's like local protesters, protesting against the outside protesters being there, when the outside protesters are really protesting for them, and for LaVoy.

*shakes head* . What a mess.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

They should go protest where the FBI are.

Wish I could e there i would try and move the protest to the refuge.

originally posted by: OveRcuRrEnteD
a reply to: beyondtruth
Evidence in this case? psshh. Look at what's being presented as evidence so far(controversial video, hearsay and two shaky but mostly corroborating witness statements) and tell me there is going to be any solid evidence of anything unless or until it comes out in civil court.
But, do you honestly think all of those LEOs just stood there (except for hero cop) with their guns in their hands as that truck attempted to go around the roadblock?

I know that when I analyze these types of events I tend to look through the lens of evidentiary value in court and I do admit to sort of having blinders on in terms of video evidence. Just from experience video evidence carries an incredible weight as far as getting convictions and getting convictions through admissions by the offender(s) in particular. Eye witnesses are obvious far inferior as far as quality evidence. That being said, and as some of you have pointed out, the lack of further video /audio / cell phone cam/ dash cam/ anything cam, only adds to the mystery of some of the blanks we are trying to fill in from blurry video, lack of audio, etc.

I'm not as concerned about why there was no audio track released only because that is pretty typical for a number of reasons , one being that there is an ongoing investigation and anything said could at a later date be used to sabotage legal proceedings.

a reply to: Boadicea

You are correct that I did invoke your thread earlier and I stand by my statements. I should have been more clear in my post as sometimes when I post from my phone I tend to abbreviate more . Instead of saying OP as in original post I should have stated by the OP Original Poster. You may not have outright said it in the original post or the subject line, but several other posts made on the subject made some serious accusations based on very little fact. I am not one to nit pick or even worry about these things because this happens all over the internet everyday. I have been a quiet observer on this forum for some time. And though I've only recently started posting, I have had an admiration for many of you for your independent thoughts and Boadicea you are one of those who I have come to respect for your opinions and what you bring to this forum. So that is why I bring up the issue of jumping to conclusion, which in many aspects you are correct in your conclusion, I just like us all to go about it thinking critically and not rushing to judgement.