The People Had Overwhelming Force at the Bundy Ranch, and They Showed Restraint... But When...

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
they could just fire a couple of chemical weapons into the compound to cause instant loss of consciousness. They walk in, take the weapons, and carry them off. It's over.

might want to cut back on those action movies

a reply to: TrueAmerican

I am here, nothing more to say on this...

Good OP

I'll bet most of the negative res-ponders to your page couldn't even articulate what the group was even protesting for. They have focused on the guns as if they had been pointed at everyone who walked by. Why, because this generation has been programmed to think everyone with a gun is a radical.
If you look at what the Bundy's originally dealt with on their ranch, and then look at the injustice put upon the Hammond's. You might think there is something wrong with our country. Something wrong with how people are being treated, perhaps as bad or worse as when homeowners under imminent domain were pushed from their homes in Ohio when they wanted to put in a Wal-Mart; One of many such stories, have you heard a story like this as well?
But that's okay to some of you, call the occupiers terrorist, and give no ear to the reasons.
You say they could have used other channels, well try it when you have an issue which concerns you.
There are good and prudent people in our Government, but they must become aware, they most become involved.
They should listen when a group of Americans are crying out to be heard.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Stared your first post, first one other than True Americans... sad but true.

Question, what is ASIO?

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
If they were that concerned, they could just fire a couple of chemical weapons into the compound to cause instant loss of consciousness.

Someone obviously gets their information from comics!

Just where do they get these mythical chemical weapons from?
Dr Doom?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg



The diea that it was a threat to the FBI for him to leave the car can be argued. He did move into the open with his hends above his head and out to the side.


That in it self is a show of being non leathal. He never tried to hide behind the car to get cover.

- The reason for why he truned arround and lowered his hands...might be because he was cought of guard when the FBI behind him started to shout order to him as he was moving towards him from behind.

The cops and the FBI are very good at shouting orders to cunfuse and scare their subject. It like they have no Clue about human behaviour at all. Its like when the cops break and force Your arms behind Your back, and at the same time orders you not to resist....... It is human nature to resist pain. So, if you dont want resistance... dont apply pain.

This somehting these People should know first hand....they have them selves been training on eachother and applied pain to apprehend a subject. They even have a signal to say stop at training.



Personally i think the FBI who were involved in this think they handeled this by the book, and have no second thought about it. They are not trained to know when to use Deadly force. They ae trained to use Deadly force if the subject dont cooperate according to the cunfusing ordes that they give.

At 1:13:00 in this video, Victoria Sharp testifies that Payne put his hands out the window and was immediately shot at once the car had stopped. And he was trying to get the women out of the car.



So let there be no question of the mal intentions of the murdering hit squad here. And let there be no attention paid to those seeking to steer your focus from the facts.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
was immediately shot at once the car had stopped. And he was trying to get the women out of the car.

So the coward was trying to use the woman as a human shield!

He had stated he would not be arrested, so just suicide by cop.

a reply to: TrueAmerican



They even shot at the right front passenger door after they had killed the first subject. You can see the dust cloud on the front side passenger window..

After looking at this video...in full screan. You can clearly see the one FBI shoot at the subject as he is moving to the left.

You can see the front sight on his gun pop up and down as he is moving to the left. The subject was already being shot at as he was moving into the open With his hands up and out to the side.

The other FBI from behind just gave him the hit that brought him Down. The first FBI hit him and forced the subjecct to bring his hands Down. That is a normal thing to do when you are hit. If you look at the subjects body Language, head/hat you can see that he is in sudden distress...as if he has been hit. The subject hardly even manages to turn he's head to see the FBI closing in behind him, before he is brought Down.

Here is the video i used. If you just fokus on the FBI who move to the left in front of the subject. Fokus only on the gun. You can see the front part of the gun pop up and Down as he is moving to the left. That is a indication that he is actually shooting his weapn at the subject.

originally posted by: spy66
You can see the front part of the gun pop up and Down as he is moving to the left. That is a indication that he is actually shooting his weapn at the subject.

After he had dropped his hands reaching for his pocket....

What happened to the claim he was dragged from the car, was on his knees, hands on top of his head then shot?

It appears some people just like to make stories up about this event!

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: TrueAmerican

There's no evidence that the stationary car was fired on, but we do know that this man was a paranoid whackdoodle with delusions of relevance.

And you know this how?...please provided evidence that the man was a "Paranoid whackadoodle with delusions of relevance.. [SNIP]

Mod Note: ALL MEMBERS: We expect civility and decorum within all topics - Please Review This Link.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: spy66
You can see the front part of the gun pop up and Down as he is moving to the left. That is a indication that he is actually shooting his weapn at the subject.

After he had dropped his hands reaching for his pocket....

No he dosent. You can see the front part of the gun move up and Down before his hands Reach his body. The FBI start to shoot as he is stepping over the first track in the snow. The tracks left from the subjects right Wheel.

The subject actually brings his hands up again after he has been shot the first time. Then he brings them back Down as the FBI shoots him Three more times.

a reply to: InMyShell
If he was trying to surrender he would have stayed in the vehicle with the others and above all listened to what the guys with guns were telling you to do. He had so many chances to surrender before this point its funny people believe he was trying to surrender. He could have when they were behind him and he took off or when he saw the road block could have pulled up turned off the vehicle and surrendered. Obviously he decided trying to run through it was a better option that cost him his life.

Anyone with half a brain knows trying to run a road block takes this out of peaceful encounter. But as their mentality shows some people shouldn't have gums gives them a false sense of power. And you should never use guns in a protest it takes you from protestor to terrorist.

I dont think the fottage we see is from a drone. But from a chooper With shooters/snipers stationed in the side door.

In this video at 5:41 you can see that the subject have red dots (2 or 3) aimed at his throat.


I dont think there is any doubt that this was a man hunt.

According to oregonlive, all phone and internet connections have been shut down. That's obviously why there has been no more updates from the compound:

www.oregonlive.com...

The four holdouts awoke to discover that many lost phone and Internet service overnight, according to Greg Whalen, a Nevada supporter who said he had been in contact with the armed protesters. They have refused to leave the refuge until they are guaranteed they won't be arrested.

Nope, sorry. The massacre will not be televised. Can't show the gubbmint in any kind of bad light, no matter how many lies they perpetrate upon us- and no matter how many they murder in cold blood.

a reply to: spy66

I dont think there is any doubt that this was a man hunt.

pretty sure thats exactly whats supposed to happen when you have an armed and mentally unstable criminal on the run

"At the Bundy Ranch, the armed civilians could have easily annihilated all those BLM goons with guns"

To what end exactly?..everybody dies on both ends..I dont get it.??

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: InMyShell
If he was trying to surrender he would have stayed in the vehicle with the others and above all listened to what the guys with guns were telling you to do. He had so many chances to surrender before this point its funny people believe he was trying to surrender. He could have when they were behind him and he took off or when he saw the road block could have pulled up turned off the vehicle and surrendered. Obviously he decided trying to run through it was a better option that cost him his life.

Anyone with half a brain knows trying to run a road block takes this out of peaceful encounter. But as their mentality shows some people shouldn't have gums gives them a false sense of power. And you should never use guns in a protest it takes you from protestor to terrorist.

Right.... To me it seams like he was a dead man no matter what. The FBI even shot up the car after he was dead.

The subject exited the car to fast for the FBI to give him orders not to. And he did not show any threat when he moved out into the open With his hands up and out to the side. That is even better for the FBI compared to having him inside the car.


After he was killed

They didnt even try to approach the car from the blind side to inspect it. They just filled it With bullets.

originally posted by: fartlordsupreme
a reply to: spy66

I dont think there is any doubt that this was a man hunt.

pretty sure thats exactly whats supposed to happen when you have an armed and mentally unstable criminal on the run

It was a man hunt intended to end With him dead. There was no doubt that the subject had surrendered. He walked into the open With his hands up and out to the side.

In a sitation like that the FBI have full kontroll. And there is room for the FBI to de-escalate the situation so that the subject dont do anything foolish. But the subject was never given a chance.