Calais port locked down as migrants break fences and board British ferry

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Scouse100

I think you have deliberately misconstrued my post. I'm not particularly passionate about inheritance. But I suppose I am when it comes to the conservation of a country's proven lifestyle, which has come at great costs to it's citizens.

Perhaps it will be alright, maybe it won't. As I said, it's a gamble, and I both admire and have concern for those who take it.

Yes, sorry, I meant inheritance in the broader sense of the word (as in the wealth and success of the country we inherit as current citizens from what was created by those that went before us) not personal inheritance.

a reply to: Scouse100
I don't give a # about any inheritance, but I am happy the UK has internationally accepted lawful authority to defend the border on the French side of the tunnel.

Oh I agree we should look at better funding for hospitals, social services, schools, doctors, dentists, social housing. However, where we completely dont see eye to eye is that if we were to get that better funding I would prefer it to be spent on the many British people eho have suffered this past few years due to austerity. I would then like wages to go up and not been pushed down because of cheap labour.

Or lets switch it on its head if we didnt kerp letting people into the Country when there are already lots of needy people here in Britain, thousands still homeless because of flooding, or over the past few years if we hadnt let immigration get completely out of control and had to deal with the sheer numbers coming in then our publuc services would be better able to copr and therefore the British people wouldnt have to fight for drs, dentists, houses, jobs, school places.

We have said we are helping refugees in camps and we are also bringing the most vulnerable here.

If you dont believe a lot of these so called children arent in fact young adults can you explain to me how they have managed to travel all the way from Turkey by boat and then travel all across Europe unaided and then to Calais?

I note you werent forthcoming about sponsoring a refugee! See thats the problem with the socialist ideology its always OK to keep spending without any personal responsibility and without knowing where further down the line that money will be made up.

Other things that never seem to come into the equation are lack of land spacd for all these peolle, we do need a certain qualitu of life and a certain amount of land for agriculture. The security risks in the present climate also dont seem to be thought through.a reply to: Scouse100

a reply to: anxiouswens

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Oh I agree we should look at better funding for hospitals, social services, schools, doctors, dentists, social housing. However, where we completely dont see eye to eye is that if we were to get that better funding I would prefer it to be spent on the many British people eho have suffered this past few years due to austerity. I would then like wages to go up and not been pushed down because of cheap labour.

Well yes I think austerity is a con and the major factor for our public service shortfalls. The number of refugees in the UK has actually fallen significantly since 2011 and EU migrants pay in more than they take out, so it's no excuse. And I don't view British people as more deserving/important than anyone else so it's fair to say we don't see eye to eye there yes!

originally posted by: anxiouswens
If you dont believe a lot of these so called children arent in fact young adults can you explain to me how they have managed to travel all the way from Turkey by boat and then travel all across Europe unaided and then to Calais?

I have no idea, perhaps traffickers, maybe their parent drowned on a boat crossing and they carried on with the others going there? Some of the kids are as young as 12, I think in most cases it's pretty clear that a 12 year old is not an adult. I honestly think there are certain media outlets/groups of people who spread such lies and propoganda to give people justification for rejecting said refugees.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
I note you werent forthcoming about sponsoring a refugee! See thats the problem with the socialist ideology its always OK to keep spending without any personal responsibility and without knowing where further down the line that money will be made up.

I don't sponsor a refugee no, I do give to other causes, it's something I certainly would consider though. That's really not the point though is it. If our corporate masters were paying their way there would be no need for people with the least to give up what little they have to help those with nothing at all.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Other things that never seem to come into the equation are lack of land spacd for all these peolle, we do need a certain qualitu of life and a certain amount of land for agriculture. The security risks in the present climate also dont seem to be thought through.

There is plenty of land, really there is! Plenty of property sitting empty as 'investment' too, what a great shame.

Yeah well here is the news today Sweden worker stabbed to death by 15 year old refugee in an home for young unaccompanied refugee children a reply to: Scouse100
www.rt.com...

I dont want people like this in the Country. I also dont think our British children in care should have to be in the system together with people like this. A lot of British children have gone through terrible trauma.

Let somr other Country do their bit, we are full. If Kent Social Services are having to move British children to make room for refugees, we are definitely full. We dont live in Mary Poppins land and its about time some grew up and saw the world for what it is and not the Utopia they dream of.

By the way I dont think British people are more important but I think they are equally as important whereas some seem to think they are less important than people from other countries. Some would rather help people from other Countries and walk on by from the misery in their own Country.

I do think British people are more deserving within their own Country especially as the money being spent is their own money paid for by taxes and NI. However, a lot serm to think they are less deserving when they are pushed to the back of the queue with social housing, schools, drs, dentists and even when it comes to flood defences withjn their own Country. Foreign Aid covers flood defences in lots of differemt countrirs whilst flood defences for commjnities in this country has been droppdd.a reply to: Scouse100

originally posted by: Scouse100






I know you don't know me, but if you did, you would know I am just as comitted to fighting against poverty in this country (and I do this actively). We can afford to do both if we stand up to disengenuous austerity, the Tory ideolgy and economy run by the elite. I wonder how many people in need that 1.3bn Google have avoided in UK tax would pay for?

So what the UK was meant to just carry on borrowing and spending money?

You want us to bankrupt ourselves helping the world? Turn the UK into a 3rd world #hole buy overloading our infrastructure and giving all our money away?

As for google?

What they did was terrible! But even your messiah Corbyn would have been powerless.
Google basicaly own the internet, piss them off and they could wack sanctions on us worse than any country.
No its not right a company has that much power and influence but thats the reality of it.

a reply to: Scouse100
Tell you what here is the deal.

If corbyn makes every labour MP that voted for middle eastern action and Camron makes his MP that did the same sell there houses, cars and give up there savings and pensions to help the refugees.
Plus a 10% extra income tax for anyone that voted for Blair or any Labour/con MP that voted for ME action.

I will be willing to see the UK help more.

But those who caused the mess in the first place need to take the brunt of it.

a reply to: anxiouswens

I appreciate you are worried by such reports but it doesn't really mean anything does it? A report of one boy stabbing someone with next no context doesn't make all, most or indeed any of the refugee kids the same. There are 'people like that' within all groups (probably particularly among vulnerable groups) but that doesn't mean we should throw the whole group of people on the scrap heap.

What about the trauma the refugee kids have undoubtedly been through, they have probably seen things that none of us will ever have to be subjected to in our lifetime, don't they need help too? Do you mean it when you say that they matter as much as British kids? I am usually very outspoken about poverty and unfairness in the UK, but feel I am having to fill a gap in this thread as few are speaking up for the refugees, so let me spell it out, it's not either/or for me.

Other countries are doing their bit though, we are not pulling our weight here, that is my issue. We are not 'full', the kids are being moved to somewhere there is room right (may not be the best approach) but evidently there is room for the refugee kids somewhere (if not Kent), just takes better organisation and extra funding.

As for the flood victims here in the UK, well this guy caught in the middle of it puts it way better than I ever can so I'll just post a link...

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

originally posted by: Scouse100

Other countries are doing their bit though,

And being hit hard with problems. Rapes, violent crimes, rise of Right wing extremisn ect

originally posted by: Scouse100
we are not pulling our weight here, that is my issue. We are not 'full',

YES WE ARE!

We are more than dammed full!

Schools are overfull. Hospitals are out of beds. Police are being run ragged. It takes 3 #ing weeks for me to get a GP appointment!

Houseing space ran more than a decade ago!

originally posted by: Scouse100
the kids are being moved to somewhere there is room right (may not be the best approach) but evidently there is room for the refugee kids somewhere (if not Kent)

Thats not how it works. They will still always end up areas like London, Birmingham or Manchester as thats were the Muslim communitys are and thats were people tend to graviate to. Its also were public services are at breaking point!

And if it was just the kids fine. It the thousands of young single men that want to come over, and those are the trouble makers.

originally posted by: Scouse100

and extra funding.

From where?

The magic money Tree?

We have only just got our debt and economy back under control and you want to start splashing the cash again?
That what got us into the austerity mess in the first place!

a reply to: crazyewok

Now that is tempting (none of those apply to me BTW). But not fair, most of who voted were opposed the ME action but were not listened to. And really, these people are just the puppets, shouldn't the people pulling the strings for war really be the ones bearing the brunt?

Taking our fair share of refugees is a short term measure, we need to tackle the root causes which include the funding/arming of rebels in the Wests interest. Austerity is a con, a means to a political ideology to shrink the state, borrowing is not always bad, if invested correctly it can stimulate the economy, in fact, it's commonly accepted that austerity is not the best way to improve the economy.

There appears to be money for war and for cutting tax for the rich doesn't there? There's also piles of money being taken out of the economy, creamed off, not taxed properly or at all and stashed. I would rather focus my energy on
fighting that massive injustice rather than blaming the lack of money on/turning away refugees.

I am astounded you are willing to accept that Google have the power to basically do whatever they please because they can hold the government to ransom, that is outrageous really, I have never seen it put like that, so thanks for stoking my fire. This is where the fight should be!

originally posted by: Scouse100


I am astounded you are willing to accept that Google have the power to basically do whatever they please because they can hold the government to ransom, that is outrageous really, I have never seen it put like that, so thanks for stoking my fire. This is where the fight should be!

I accept it but I don’t like it. I hate it. But there are some fights you cant win.

Google do more or less own the internet and if the UK started a fight with Google they would win. They could black list UK businesses and cause huge damage to the UK economy.

And in some ways its all our own fault as we let google get that powerfull.

originally posted by: Scouse100
Taking our fair share of refugees is a short term measure,

Ah ha! There's the rub. What is "our fair share"? Just how many migrants should the UK take? How long is "short term", because people tend to want to stay once they are in.

20,000 over five years?
20,000 in this year?
130,000 +/- this year (as per EU quota) not including further influx.
Why not just have a free for all, as was the case under Labour who ran an unofficial open - door policy.

I've been thinking this through. There are 20 million household (give or take) in the UK. If every household took a migrant then that's the problem solved. I certainly have no problem allowing a few young men from backward, misogynist cultures to share a bathroom with my teenage daughters. What’s there to fear? What could possibly go wrong? I'll understand it was miscommunication when it all goes wrong, and we'll laugh about it afterwards.

a reply to: stevieray

I do disagree WRT to the Sunnis and Shia and Wahabbis burning and stoning and beheading and dismembering each other for 1500 years, long before there was an America.

So, more bombing then?

Good luck fixing "1500 years" of culture different than yours. Failed western interventions causing the misery in the ME.

Not a few beheadings…

a reply to: paraphi

Take the unaccompanied kids we have been discussing for a start. I don't doubt that many will want to stay, you misunderstood me, I meant we won't need to keep taking them in at the same rate if we tackle the root causes. Free for all I do not support as I have stated numerous times. No need for shared bathrooms.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: stevieray

I do disagree WRT to the Sunnis and Shia and Wahabbis burning and stoning and beheading and dismembering each other for 1500 years, long before there was an America.

So, more bombing then?

Good luck fixing "1500 years" of culture different than yours. Failed western interventions causing the misery in the ME.

Not a few beheadings…

A few beheadings....is a sad, sad deliberate underestimate of what's happening out there.

By selling that line, one could be easily accused of deliberately enabling a cornucopia of savagery.

The only thing that would truly stop the carnage would be to repeal the artificial ME boundaries created by England and France. They did, of course, guarantee that the various sects & tribes would be warring for another 1000 years, thereby making control of the whole region a lot easier. There's actually no such thing as Iraq, Iran, KSA, Kuwait, or any of the other names over there. Just colonies created by our friends UK and France.

a reply to: stevieray

And the USA.

Again your Hsitory is very patchy and full of holes.

After WW2 the USA pressured the UK and France in decolonisation. And to do it as quick as possible due to the fact the USA the USA had come out WW2 more or less unscathed and knew if they could crack the colonies of the UK and France they would truly have economic dominance.

The UK was quite willing to stake longer in decolonisation and make sure the borders were mediated and the societys made ready for independence but you dammed yanks wanted it done ASASP leaving the UK and France little choice but the pack up and leave as quicly as possible.


But Derp Derp USA USA!

originally posted by: Scouse100
Take the unaccompanied kids we have been discussing for a start.

Yes, I am happy with unaccompanied children, so long as they do not compromise disadvantaged British kids who need to find stable homes themselves. It is unfair and morally indefensible to act in a charitable way to person A knowing that that action will be detrimental to person B.

Also, these kids should come from the refugee camps and NOT from children who have managed to travel across half the world to pitch a tent in Calais, as that demonstrates a modicum of maturity rather than vulnerability and need. In addition, if their parents and family are "found" then they should move back to their family and not expect their family to join them, otherwise it just makes people cynical and would be seen as another one of those piss-takes to cicumvent immigration rules.

MOST ARE NOT FROM SYRIA OR IRAQ in Calais nor in Europe. Why do people still keep pretending that is the case. They are mainly from Pakistan and North Africa Countries. What the hell has a bunch of people following a backward ideology chopping peoples heads of, raping etc got to do with West. What responsibility do you place at their door..

If you hate the West so intensely and blame them for everything evil in the World which you appear to do then why the hell dont you go and join the fight?a reply to: intrptr

I am happy with unaccompanied children if they are in fact children and as you said if they are coming from camps. I would take a child in my own home and look after them myself if I had the room.

What I do have a problem with is taking 16/17 year olds with beards who have been mature enough and street wise enough to travel across a continent! Any children taken should also not be at the detriment of British children and if there arent the places or funding without moving British children then that should be a clear indicator that we dont have the infrastructure in place. I am from the North of England and I see poverty day in and day out and still a lot get sent here. Time for Cameron to take sime in leafy Oxford.a reply to: paraphi