The Aliens are Silent because They're Dead

a reply to: operayt

I KNOW.

I think since we may be the youngest sentient race out there

there may be rules not to intervene with the humans

young and dumb but learning

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: neformore
There could be a single advanced civilisation in each galaxy and the universe would still be teeming with life.

True, but on any meaningful scale, one advanced civilization per galaxy would be a sparse distribution, and would mean that advanced life is rare -- which is what this paper says.

Sure -- billions of galaxies could mean billions of advanced civilizations when looking at it on a "the entire known universe" scale if we follow the arbitrary "one civilization in each galaxy" idea (and that is completely arbitrary for the purposes of this discussion)...

...But then again, "one civilization among 100 Billion stars in a galaxy" sounds quite sparse and lonely when looking at it on a galactic scale.


For example, if we say the galaxy is loaded with 500 billion Earths, and each Earth had 2 people on it, then you could say the galaxy was teeming with a trillion people. However, on any given earth, it is unlikely that the two lone inhabitants would even know the other existed, let alone ever meet each other.

And when looking from a an earth perspective...

, 95% of world's population is concentrated on just 10% of world's land surface. While only 10% of the world's land is classified as remote or more than 48 hours from a large city

www.quora.com... -populated-by-humans

You see...sparsity is irrelevant. Are we irrelevant on planet Earth ? Surely climate change people will disagree..

a reply to: missedinformation

Education and the williness to learn, while keeping an open mind, is a very good thing!

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: Brotherman

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
-Abraham Lincoln

There's no evidence Lincoln said that.

So Lincoln, alien-like, is silent on that subject.

Evidences

Harte

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: gortex

Nice one Gortex

I've only skimmed it after going straight to references.* At first it looks like a rephrasing of already vintage arguments and then it begins to take a slightly different shape. It's one more facet on the hypothesis that we are alone out here. It's disheartening on one hand and actually exciting on the other because it suggests we could be the only sentient creatures for many, many light years.

If we ever develop the ability to flit around the galaxy, this would be an extremely fortunate outcome, if it's true.

Harte

originally posted by: neformore
Read the article yesterday.

What complete and utter arrogant crap it is.

We've been looking for what...50 years?

People making these kind of suggestions - do they not grasp the size of the universe? They should do, and yet they make suggestions like this.

There could be a single advanced civilisation in each galaxy and the universe would still be teeming with life.

You should read the article more carefully then.

It addresses the Fermi Paradox, which limits itself to our own home galaxy.

So, your estimate (one intelligent species per galaxy) is the lowest end of what the paper suggests.

Harte

originally posted by: Urantia1111
a reply to: gortex
Astrobiologists dedicate their lives to the study of something they don't believe even exists?

Yawn.

Is that an argument?
What do Paleontologists dedicate their lives to studying?

Do they not believe dinosaurs existed?

Harte

There under our feet. Look inside the Earth. The poles are entrances. They are also close by in our solar system. The Moon is a great place to hide.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I guess the big question is even if there were 1000s of advance alien races what is it that we should hear?

As KellyPrettyBear has said several times, we would never detect a normal EM signal from any other solar system, unless it was purposefully or accidentally aimed at us and was a high gain signal.

The incidental broadcast-type of signal such as from our television or radio from Earth wouldn't be detected very much further than the Oort Cloud of our own Solar System.

Harte

Why do they always put life into such a narrow spectrum, there could be other types of life that live in freezing temps or superheated conditions.

You can´t access the internet if your using a rotory phone. Space could be full of intersteller communications, but if humans are using the equivelent of a rotary phone to search for them, your not going to succeed in your mission. Your going to be baffled why there is almost nothing to hear other than what is being emitted by natural sources.

Humans have made huge technological leaps over the past two hundred years, but we are still a Type 0 civiisation. We don´t have the knowledge tools yet to access the intergalactic information highway so to say. It may well be a common dilemma to all Type 0 species that barriers must be crossed before access is granted (through discovery).

Perhaps the necessary tools can only be accessable once gravity is completely understood and mastered. Maybe the answer lies within the mastery of Quantum mechanics, or from the understanding of another phenomena which exists all around us (Dark Energy for example). Without having a much better working knowledge of the true environment we live in, the rotary phone is more than likely going to remain silent. The aliens, however, are not dead.

The Aliens are Silent because they are dead, most likely due to discovering our PC Modern World went clinically insane with grief committing mass suicide in the process. I for one wouldn't blame them either.

originally posted by: fockewulf190
..The aliens, however, are not dead.

I don't know...It seems like a valid argument to think that intelligent species often die of or self-destruct prior to becoming technological civilizations.

I think (as this paper postulates) that the rise of technological civilizations may be a rarity that there are very few existing in our galaxy at the moment, and even fewer yet anywhere near enough to us for us to meet each other.

The size of the universe almost guarantees there are other technological civilizations co-existing in the universe at the same time as we are (and this paper dies NOT refute that), but those civilizations are possibly very very far apart.

originally posted by: intrptr
originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: intrptr

vhb: This Earth is a 'living library'; our zoo-keepers are not going to let us destroy that which they so carefully tend; *their garden* not ours.

intrptr: Well eventually the soil becomes depleted, crop rotation, or in the case of total contamination, harvest what you got and move on. There an infinite number of worlds being terraformed. Always new gardens cropping up. As above so below.(imo)

You are guessing this is a natural system; that reclaims itself. At some point the Creator [or Absolute] will not find anything positive here anymore and will shut this entire thing down as not progressing but digressing as in a state of decay. I am not certain of your idea other 'pop-up' EARTH'S existing. In fact this is the only one in a perfection never to be duplicated again (this is why Earth and its ecosystems are so outstanding/lauded) by others observing.

a reply to: Box of Rain

Those exist; just not in a 3D Earth gravity heavy material form as you understand it.

originally posted by: Box of Rain

originally posted by: fockewulf190
..The aliens, however, are not dead.

I don't know...It seems like a valid argument to think that intelligent species often die of or self-destruct prior to becoming technological civilizations.

I think (as this paper postulates) that the rise of technological civilizations may be a rarity that there are very few existing in our galaxy at the moment, and even fewer yet anywhere near enough to us for us to meet each other.

The size of the universe almost guarantees there are other technological civilizations co-existing in the universe at the same time as we are (and this paper dies NOT refute that), but those civilizations are possibly very very far apart.

There is no possible way to know if other intelligent species "often die" or "self-destruct", if they are rare, many, near, or far away from us. Any opinion about that topic is pure speculation.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: Brotherman

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
-Abraham Lincoln

There's no evidence Lincoln said that.

So Lincoln, alien-like, is silent on that subject.

Evidences

Harte

"Better to remain silent and be unknown than to speak out and become food."
-Xtrozero

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I am not certain of your idea other 'pop-up' EARTH'S existing.

I meant more along terraforming. Once a "Goldilocks Zone" candidate is found, takes millions, billions of earth years to prepare a potential planet for life.

Gardening is about preparing the soil, protecting the crop, and keeping the weeds down.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I am not certain of your idea other 'pop-up' EARTH'S existing.

I meant more along terraforming. Once a "Goldilocks Zone" candidate is found, takes millions, billions of earth years to prepare a potential planet for life.Gardening is about preparing the soil, protecting the crop, and keeping the weeds down.

What are the chances? A planet so perfect to introduce and support an infinite number/member of fauna and flora; so many species to thrive with each other within in a hostile ecosystem and thrive?