The Aliens are Silent because They're Dead

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I guess the big question is even if there were 1000s of advance alien races what is it that we should hear? It is suggested that the time line for an advance race to spew the Galaxy with electronic waves is a very short window of a few 100 years before they surpass the need to use omni type air waves. If this is the case then it would be luck of the draw that we happen to hear another race within this golden zone of their advancement.

Perhaps. But if there are hundreds of thousands of civilizations out there, then the chances would actually be pretty good that if they're no longer alive then their radio transmissions should still be detectable to us, even though they wouldn't have necessarily been broadcast at the same time. We'd detect a civilization a thousand light-years away that broadcast a thousand years ago, along with a civilization 2,000 light years away that broadcast 2,000 years ago, and so on, back billions of years. In that regard, the galaxy should have a kind of constant radio hum of civilizations as they arose and either stopped transmitting (for whatever reason) or died out.

But we don't get that. Or we at least don't have the equipment yet to detect it.

a reply to: intrptr


Ohhhh... sorry, I'm at work and I tend to skim... I thought that wasn't indicative of your usual dazzling logic.

Carry on.

And that "always something alive and conscious" is the only thing that makes sense to me either.. .as if that makes sense to our monkey-like brains, either, but 'first cause' is pretty heavy!

originally posted by: theMediator
Dead aliens lol, well I guess it makes sense if you've never heard of the prime directive.

Silence as a result of the Prime Directive makes sense if you assume all aliens agree to it. However, as we know from our own experience with different nations and tribes and so on, getting everybody to agree on something is pretty near impossible. So even if the majority of alien civilizations agreed to keep Earth under quarantine, there would still be plenty of aliens who would tell the others to buzz off and they're going to contact Earth no matter what.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
Sure, given billions of galaxies and many many trillions of stars, intelligent life almost certainly does exist. However, the idea here is that in a given finite amount of space, perhaps intelligent life might be very rare.

Along with that, even if there is life way, way out there in some other distant galaxy, we will never, ever, ever have any interaction with them, or even proof of their existence. So even if they're "real," in a practical sense they might as well be hypothetical.

Basically, we want our aliens to be close enough to interact with, and be enough like us to perceive reality in roughly the same way we do. All other aliens can go to hell.

Even if they were all dead....Their electromagnetic signals or other detectable products of their civilisation could be still on the way here.....
I cannot conceive of a sterile universe except for us......hogwash...and these guys have Phds so they get paid to spout this inane twaddle? I know a 5 year old who asks similar questions....
Is there intelligent life on Earth is the real crux of the matter....

a reply to: Baddogma

And that "always something alive and conscious" is the only thing that makes sense to me either.. .as if that makes sense to our monkey-like brains, either, but 'first cause' is pretty heavy!

Yah, I would rewind the forever tape but that would take… forever.

I get the beginning and end barriers we see from our three d perspective. The fourth is where being everywhere at once makes sense.

We can't get there from here. I tried to explain 'up' to two D Flat Landers all the time. They just don't get it.

The part of us that gets glimpses beyond is the same in everyone.

all it will take is for a single species to become interstellar and the galaxy will eventually become full, even if it takes a thousand years to colonize a nearby star through some vault biodome spaceship...life will spread like an infection over time to the entire galaxy.

All it takes then is for a civilization to somehow find a way to travel across the vast space between galaxys to become an immortal species, seeding multiple galaxies.

I think we could do this if we dont blow ourselves up first.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
Sure, given billions of galaxies and many many trillions of stars, intelligent life almost certainly does exist. However, the idea here is that in a given finite amount of space, perhaps intelligent life might be very rare.

Along with that, even if there is life way, way out there in some other distant galaxy, we will never, ever, ever have any interaction with them, or even proof of their existence. So even if they're "real," in a practical sense they might as well be hypothetical.

Basically, we want our aliens to be close enough to interact with, and be enough like us to perceive reality in roughly the same way we do. All other aliens can go to hell.

A lot of people want a "big free, cool alien free lunch".
It's the same kind of thinking as religion.

People should be wary of what they ask for.

Maybe "god" is real, but is a homicidal sadist.
Maybe "aliens" are real, but are homicidal sadists.

A universe full of bacteria, spores, molds and fungi
would be a lot less stressful, and far more realistic.

Kev

originally posted by: bandersnatch
Even if they were all dead....Their electromagnetic signals or other detectable products of their civilisation could be still on the way here.....
I cannot conceive of a sterile universe except for us......hogwash...and these guys have Phds so they get paid to spout this inane twaddle? I know a 5 year old who asks similar questions....
Is there intelligent life on Earth is the real crux of the matter....

Again... unless you are pumping out EM like a quasar.. most radio signals fade
to the level of background noise and are undetectable. The chance of us
ever hearing a radio signal from intelligent life is extremely remote, even
if the universe were full of them...unless they were a Kardashev type II
or greater, and they were insane and wanted to be discovered.

futurism.com...

We are a "0 civilization"; we are trying to shine a flashlight to mars with
morse code and looking for an intelligent answer.

Kev

It is far more likely that our "al-ien friends" are extra-/interdimensional.

originally posted by: intrptr
Because personally, its easier for me to believe life was brought here than it just 'materialized'. From my perspective there isn't much difference between that and what religious folk propose.

Poof…

Lol ok, you missed my point... If life came here then it would need to start somewhere right? If it started somewhere else in the universe then why couldn't it also just start here? BTW the term life is a human creation, I do not think the universe sees what we call life as anything different than chemical reactions.

My proof is life is here so it started in our universe, and if it started anywhere in this universe it can start right here.

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: gortex

Do the Nordics, Pleaidians, Dracos, Greys, etc. know they are dead?

I think they are actually on to something, if you think about it rationally, without any preconceived dogma. Then yes the Aliens might be dead, or rather what we call dead , the Galaxy may very well be a totally different place if you are not tied to the physical laws. If we are not just a body, then we are something else tied to a physical form composed of natural elements , and we are therefore at present tied to the laws of those elements.

All Paranormal events Ghost etc. just about have the same modus operendi ,scenarios as U.F.O.s So what is so wrong with a statement like the "Kingdom of Heaven" except it might just mean something so totally out there us monkeys haven't got a clue.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: intrptr

Enrico Fermi helped bring to fruition the most destructive weapon on the planet. He is become death, destroyer of worlds.

Pardon my french...i think it's cr**. The wonderful thing is…nobody cares what I think and vice versa

The thousands of weapons poised to ruin this little blue dot care even less about all life.

This Earth is a 'living library'; our zoo-keepers are not going to let us destroy that which they so carefully tend; *their garden* not ours.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I guess the big question is even if there were 1000s of advance alien races what is it that we should hear? It is suggested that the time line for an advance race to spew the Galaxy with electronic waves is a very short window of a few 100 years before they surpass the need to use omni type air waves. If this is the case then it would be luck of the draw that we happen to hear another race within this golden zone of their advancement.

Perhaps. But if there are hundreds of thousands of civilizations out there, then the chances would actually be pretty good that if they're no longer alive then their radio transmissions should still be detectable to us, even though they wouldn't have necessarily been broadcast at the same time. We'd detect a civilization a thousand light-years away that broadcast a thousand years ago, along with a civilization 2,000 light years away that broadcast 2,000 years ago, and so on, back billions of years. In that regard, the galaxy should have a kind of constant radio hum of civilizations as they arose and either stopped transmitting (for whatever reason) or died out.

But we don't get that. Or we at least don't have the equipment yet to detect it.

Any math guys out there? We also need to add in that our range of detection has been 70 or less years, so that other civilization(s) timing of distance and their short electronic blast period would all need to come together with their 200 year range to also fall within our 70 years of listening, I do not think the odds are very good even if 100,000s were doing it.

I personally do not think there are a lot of intelligent races out there since it would take an earth type planet to produce advance life forms even though there can be simple lifeforms all over the place with planets not as perfect as earth seems to be for life. Also, since even earth has only been able to produce one species in 4.5 billion years, us, it doesn't look good that the highly intelligent builder species would be very common to create a plethora of advance species able to travel the galaxy or even to enter a period of technological society too.

Given the size of the universe, there could be an enormous number of Earths. Why does life even have to limited to Earth like. It seems highly unlikely we are the last or the only.

Mankind just likes to think it is the greatest life form.

why would they spread so terribly. western birth rates are below 2.0

it's a small window of hoping a civ uses electromag trans and in that 1000 years they used it we happened to hit the same light year distance to pick it up.

let's say a population of 100 billion with 1 million explorers exploring 1 solar system a day for 1 million years.

we've been found and we are a zoo similar to what we do to our own people in the amazon. instead of exposing these people we find their leader and show them a little bit.
unless their intergalatic government has their own special rules concerning meeting type 0 civs.

If we get interstellar travel in a 100 years in 200 years there will be be tree/planet huggers that will want to keep primitve species we meet isolated and we will pick them up for study and erase their memory.

I just hope I'm around for that alien marriage debate. should be hillarious.

originally posted by: Restricted
It is far more likely that our "al-ien friends" are extra-/interdimensional.

Yes dead? a consciousness in the last analysis is the sum total of personal information, stored outside the present dimensions ultimately to protect that information, the Universe would have to have some means to store and access it. I suggest its all about time, once information is in the past its safe.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Lol ok, you missed my point... If life came here then it would need to start somewhere right?

And you miss mine. The Universe has always been there, life has always been there, here, everywhere…

a reply to: Xtrozero

briankoberlein.com...

For example, the most distant human-made object is Voyager I, which has a transmission power of about 23 Watts, and is still detectable by radio telescopes 125 AU away. Proxima Centauri, the closest star to the Sun, is about 2,200 times more distant. Since the strength of a light signal decreases with distance following the inverse square relation, one would need a transmission power of more than 110 million Watts to transmit a signal to Proxima Centauri with the strength of Voyager to Earth. Current TV broadcasts (at least in the States) is limited to around 5 million Watts for UHF stations, and many stations aren’t nearly that powerful.

That says it nicely.. for a general audience.
It would take the power of 22 large TV stations
to get a feeble signal to the nearest star.

Kev

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: intrptr

Enrico Fermi helped bring to fruition the most destructive weapon on the planet. He is become death, destroyer of worlds.

Pardon my french...i think it's cr**. The wonderful thing is…nobody cares what I think and vice versa

The thousands of weapons poised to ruin this little blue dot care even less about all life.

This Earth is a 'living library'; our zoo-keepers are not going to let us destroy that which they so carefully tend; *their garden* not ours.

Well eventually the soil becomes depleted, crop rotation, or in the case of total contamination, harvest what you got and move on. There an infinite number of worlds being terraformed. Always new gardens cropping up. As above so below.

(imo)