Encouraging people to turn to God!

a reply to: Ghost147

I do not think you know what you are talking about..... no disrespect BUT hopefully you know that Zeitgiest has been debunked.... you know this right? Take any of those old myths and you will see that those old stories EACH ONE has a twist of deceit and additional info was incerted into the story. Do your own research and stop relying on liars who attempt to destroy God's word with cheap deception to lead believers down the wrong path by putting doubt into God's word.

Here is a Youtube video debunking Zeitgeist. Everyone who believes God and Jesus is a myth should watch this:




This is not the thread to discuss in detail those myths you speak of because it would derail this thread BUT you are wrong and you are living a lie.

P.S. And to those who think they will wait to believe in God AFTER he shows himself and if Jesus is true..... well once God does show himself to the world you can not change your mind at that point..... no matter who you are..... you will be an unbeliever and marked as one.

So what is the reward for an unbeliever? Eternal death ....... meanwhile those believers in your family live on......

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Ghost147
What gives you the right to decide what truth is, do you know everything?

I don't profess to know everything, but I do have the facts to back my claims. My comments aren't mere conjecture.

Again, you're more than welcome to provide a response to the content I've written, rather than to attack me personally. If I am so obviously wrong, it should be easy for you to provide a response which counters my comments with validity.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Ghost147
As for atheism being a religion, you want to convert the religious to atheism, thats clear in all your posts, you are very preachy.

Yet I have made it abundantly clear, throughout a number of threads in which you've responded to me in, that I feel it is your right to believe in what you wish.

Again, it has nothing to do with you believing on a personal level, it's when religion seeps out into the government, or education, or the indoctrination of children that it pushes through it's boundaries.

There is no such thing as "Converting religious people to Atheism" because Atheism isn't a religion or a belief system.

However, I will do my best to enlighten the misinformed (religious or not) whenever they make a false claim that stems from misunderstanding/misinformation/false premises.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Ghost147
I cant prove there is a God and you cant prove one doesnt exist.

I never said I could prove that one doesn't exist. I have stated, numerous times, though, that it is illogical to believe in something in which cannot be proven because any number of other things which are also unfalsifiable hold an equal level of validity.

I can also show that specific actions described in the holy books of many religions are false. For instance, how it is impossible for the world to have had a global flood within the last few thousand years. Or that all plants and animals were created 6000 years ago. Or that the earth is the center of the solar system. So on and so forth.

I can also offer a plethora of information that shows the unlikelihood of a deity that created the universe not long ago.

Unlike your position, mine isn't based on absolute certainty, but rather, observation, facts, reasoning, and above all else, subject to change upon further information and discoveries.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Ghost147
Can you, you act like you know everything, even whats good for me.
Where is your proof

I've already asked you to point out the specific content you're referring to so I can clearly address your concerns. That offer has not diminished.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Ghost147
Simply you dont know everything

I think your record is skipping. You've already stated this multiple times, and I have already proclaimed to have no knowledge of 'everything', nor have I ever proclaimed to have a knowledge of everything.

So what is the point you're trying to make exactly?

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Ghost147
Here is a Youtube video debunking Zeitgeist. Everyone who believes God and Jesus is a myth should watch this:

If you're going to make a point, I suggest not simply posting a 2 hour long video with absolutely no summary of it what so ever and simply demanding the opposition to watch it.

Sorry, But I'm not about to waste 2 hours of my life on a position you claim is absolute, yet don't even care to go in depth with within your post.

a reply to: Ghost147

Fictional book or not, churches or not, what is the most rational thing that supports belief in God is the many testimonies of people who experienced death and returned to tell the stories, its your choice not to believe them, but I suppose they couldnt all be lying. Plus the fact there are ghosts, so there is afterlife, there is some sort of arrangement for our spiritual progression. My humble opinion....

a reply to: Learningman

That is an interesting question. What I'd say is that I could have been you, so I cant judge you, everybody has his own background that leads or influences his direction.It's your choice what to believe.Maeby you will need God when you'll die, think about that...

I hope, that with this post I will inspire better debate about what the topic is really about. Can we please have one thread where people are not arguing over and over again about their beliefs. Why can't we just converse and share weird experiences and opinions without extra garbage about evidence and so on. This is not what OP wanted, I assume.

a reply to: thepowerisinyou

hey!

nice post and beautiful intent to raise the awareness. I noticed you are meditating, that is very nice. For how long have you been doing it? and did you have any other wired experiences? Maybe even like just lucid dreaming or obe? Maybe weird feelings during meditation along the spine, heart, head. Did you have some vision?

I have been into meditation now for a few years and it was the best choice I did in a long time. From total unbiased sceptic about god's, angels, religions .. ie. I was like an agnostic. But I have quickly changed my opinion from various experiences I had during or due to meditation. After that I have started to study vigorously various materials from past saints and master of buddhism, taoizem, hinduism, advaita vedanta, yoga, sufism, christianity, islam, etc... and it has been incredible journey so far and have learned so much.

For one, I have learned that there is no right and wrong truth. There is just learning. Everything is a school hour and we should strive to make the best of everything. What don't kill you makes you stronger kind of thing : ) The bad the good the ugly!

So in a way all this rambling about different beliefs are wasted effort, from my prospective. We are all on different levels of understanding. Some are more materialistic while others have inclinations to spiritual side. And also all religions are true. But not entirely, it was humans that changed them for some gain. But they originated from someone very special who have climbed the ladder of our reality and find out real nature of the universe and existence. After a while you see a lot of connection between ALL them, this connection is the red line which is the truth in my opinion.

But every person should get his own understanding, as we are on different levels of understanding. Which means that use what seems useful and discard (note: not deny!) the rest. And after some time, maybe what was discarded before, you will understand in the future. Just my advice, that was how it went and still goes for me.
----

I have decided to add two videos to this thread for anyone curious!

One is a very good explanation of the mahamudra, which is one of the most pure buddhist lineage today.
It has four parts, and each part is longer than an hour, so it takes time to watch it all. But is is very informative and I welcome every meditator to watch it. You will surely benefit a lot from watching and trying to meditate in a way this video is teaching.



Second one is about spirituality in a simple understanding manner. It connects all major religions, and explains real nature of our existence and how to connect to the source. Very informative for all. Atheist, scientist or religious individuals. Maybe the solution to world's problems lies in the information which is provided here. I certainly think so.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Do you think all people who experience something supernatural have some sort of trauma? Would you go to a haunted house and I 'll say hey you must have had some sort of trauma in your childhood if you felt something frightful.
My child doesnt have nightmares but rarely and not big ones,Ive nothing to worry. Thanks for the advices. She is baptized like us, our house is blessed by the priest every year, I dont have activities in my house, its not haunted.It all happened in my head not in my space! In the moment I had a special state of mind of happiness(no trauma there I assure you!) something wanted to stop me from exploring it further, was a bit furious, surprised, just rushed over) I was even more surprised. How come, what does it have to do with me, all that I was thinking in a few seconds... I was having some many thoughts in a few seconds, like 6 maximum, battleing it, I was thinking what is this, who gave it the permission to come, how did it dare to approach me in such a delightful moment, just right now when I felt like I could do anything, be anything.....I was simply feeling the beauty of all, life, me, others, people I love.....Something wanted to take my happiness and it wasnt me. It really ruined my perfect meditation, which I never had to such point like that...

a reply to: UniFinity

Hi, I believe we've chated about my exp. in other thread, UniFinity, was a pleasure! thanks for the videos, I'll take a look. I admire people who take the time to meditate, especially at a higher level, I believe it's sooooo beneficial for the soul, mind and body and could give insight to the future, past, present. Man has powers, we discover them little by little, how to use them, recognise them, apply them, become better... I was afraid of meditation after that episode, the meditation came naturally didnt planned it, it was like a gift of peace, maeby I had an angel and then a demon, the price for the opened gate who knows?! I meditated more when I was young now and then but only superficially, just about being calm and becoming more organized, that sort of thing...After the episode I discovered ATS on search for paranormal, read about people's exp with shadow people for example, which scared me so much more, I was even looking in the corners of my house to not seeing one pop in front of me. I got over it and I am stronger!

a reply to: Ghost147

My point is now

Ghost stop stalking me and please stop preaching your nirvana at me

You don't know everything and you don't have any right to shut me down
Believe what you want, let me and others do the same, please

If you had facts you would present them

Now please let it go we disagree

originally posted by: thepowerisinyou
a reply to: Ghost147
what is the most rational thing that supports belief in God is the many testimonies of people who experienced death and returned to tell the stories

I would say that would be great evidence, if everyone experienced the same thing, despite what background they come from.

I'm afraid that you forget that every other religion on Earth has people who follow them that have experienced the same thing, but with their own gods.

I read a very interesting book a while ago (sorry, cant remember the title) on the scientific evidence, and spiritual evidence of Allah and the Islamic faith. What I found so interesting was that it offered identical 'evidence' that Christians claim proves their religion. From everything from seeing and meeting prophets to going to Heaven (paradise, Jannah), and so forth.

So if there are people within every religion who experience the same type of event, but each with the details being of their own personal beliefs, then the only logical conclusion is that the events they are experiencing have nothing to do with divinity at all, but rather stem from a less supernatural cause.

A good way to spot a non-divine christian 'near death experience' is if the person describes Jesus as looking like this (Cesare Borgia):



Instead of what he would have actually looked more like, which is something like this:



Lets not forget that these events, even within the same religious background, are also subject to contradiction. Some say "this is what heaven looked like", others say "this is what heaven looked like", some say "my grandpa was there, at the age of which he died, but in good health", others say "My grandpa was there, but he was young, because in heaven, no one is old"

originally posted by: thepowerisinyou
a reply to: Ghost147
its your choice not to believe them, but I suppose they couldnt all be lying.

I don't think they are lying at all. I think the vast majority of them really did experience what they describe, the only issue is that they couldn't tell that it was a hallucination.

originally posted by: thepowerisinyou
a reply to: Ghost147
Plus the fact there are ghosts

I believe that ghosts exist, however, we know so little about them with any amount of certainty that we cannot possibly claim that there really is an 'afterlife' where consciousness is still there, within them, or if what we perceive as ghosts are simply some kind of manifestation of brainwaves that have yet to dissipate enough.

Your level at which you reach a conclusive standpoint off of a given amount of evidence is far too low and far too biased to really paint a clear picture of reality. It seems as though you're looking to reassure that your beliefs are real, by allowing a very low standard of critical thinking before reaching a conclusion on the matter of the validity of your ideology.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Ghost147
Ghost stop stalking me and please stop preaching your nirvana at me

I posted in this topic first, so how exactly am I stalking you?

The only reason I respond to you is because of how generally inaccurate the posts you make are. In another topic we are both in recently, I never responded to you because you made a fair point (not directly at my post, but at the OP). It's pretty evident that I am not stalking you, we just happen to gravitate towards similar topics, and have a tendency of disagreeing.

Not to mention you have an incredibly obscure view on what Atheism really is, so I have to constantly correct you on your claims and false premises.

originally posted by: thepowerisinyou
a reply to: Ghost147
You don't know everything

For the third of fourth time this topic, I do not claim to know everything, and have not claimed to know everything.

Why do you continue to write this when every single time you do I openly admit to not knowing everything?

originally posted by: thepowerisinyou
a reply to: Ghost147
and you don't have any right to shut me down

If your post consists of content that is inaccurate, then I will correct your inaccuracy.

If we were debating about maths and you claimed that 4+4=9, then I'm going to correct you on the matter. Not because 'I know everything', but because you are in fact wrong.

Also, I'm not sure what country you live in, but Freedom Of Speech exists in mine. So yes, I am well in my rights to respond to your posts, no matter how nonsensical they may be.

originally posted by: thepowerisinyou
a reply to: Ghost147
Believe what you want, let me and others do the same, please

You can believe whatever you want (something else I've stated a number of times before, even in this topic). The other topic I mentioned where I didn't respond to you was because your comment had nothing to do with "matter of fact", your opinion is your opinion, so I had no reason to respond to it.

However, In this topic, you're throwing out claims left and right, and making accusations, and stating things as absolute truth, with a not so subtle undertone of total misunderstanding of many of the topics you're rambling on about, so it goes beyond personal beliefs and in to the realm of you claiming what is and isn't factual.

When this abuse of logic occurs, I will then respond to your comments.

originally posted by: thepowerisinyou
a reply to: Ghost147
If you had facts you would present them

I have already told you to directly tell me which 'fact' you want me to prove! This is now the third or fourth time I'm telling you. Go to the post that you find most inaccurate, quote the claims (individually) so I can directly address them with clarity, and I will provide my citations.

You continue to make personal attacks on me and throw out claim after claim on the validity of my responses, yet you are totally and obviously avoiding the actual topic at hand.

I am not running from your challenge. So why are you putting your record on repeat and spouting the same lines over and over again? I already accepted your challenge, just get the specific lines so we can properly discuss them.

originally posted by: thepowerisinyou
a reply to: Ghost147
Now please let it go we disagree

It's not about disagreement. It's about one person (you) making false claims and challenges, and the other person (me) presenting total cooperation with those challenges, and then the other person (you) copy and pasting their original challenge over and over again and plugging their ears and shutting their eyes whenever the other person (me) responds).

Remove the tail between your legs, stop personally attacking me, man up and lets have a proper discussion on the matter.

If you can handle such civility, don't respond to this post at all. Just go to the post that I made in which you find to be lies, or baseless facts, formally present them individually, and lets discuss the matter.

a reply to: Ghost147

You rely very much on logic, you should start reading the bible ) Did the people of Israel saw God? No, but the miracles yes. He spoke through those He chose. O wait, its all made up. Nope.....

originally posted by: thepowerisinyou
a reply to: Ghost147
You rely very much on logic, you should start reading the bible

) Did the people of Israel saw God? No, but the miracles yes. He spoke through those He chose. O wait, its all made up. Nope.....

I have read the bible. It is the single greatest reason why I find Christianity to be entirely fictitious.

You keep offering these bits you consider 'evidence' such as 'miracles' and 'near death experiences' and 'holy scripture', yet you forget, or choose to not acknowledge, that all other religions present the same 'evidence'.

Why 'logic' is some sort of negative thing to you is mind boggling. However, I suppose the rejection of logic and reality is needed in order to believe such obviously false concepts.

If you'd like to escape the chains of faith, I am more than willing to discuss all these topics in greater detail with you?

I suggest starting with the understanding of what 'evidence' actually is. Because 'miracles', 'faith', 'chosen prophets', 'near death experiences', 'ghosts' are a part of more religions than just yours. By providing the generic concept of those things, you provide no evidence for your own religion if every other religion also claims the same.

Perhaps if you applied logic, you'd understand that?

a reply to: Ghost147

Im sorry to dissappoint you, but sometimes feelings say better than logic!

a reply to: Ghost147

Your logic is nothing compared to my personal relationship with God, so you can stop trying to convince me, lets agree to disagree.

originally posted by: thepowerisinyou
a reply to: Ghost147

Im sorry to dissappoint you, but sometimes feelings say better than logic!

That would be true, if the issue was based off of something that isn't so obviously incorrect.

All you need to do is look into the basic history of Christianity and Religion in general to see just how irrational believing in organized religion is.

The Book of Genesis is thoroughly debunked time and time again but virtually everything we can observe in the universe. The existence of light itself disproves a 6000 year old earth, not to mention plate tectonics, biology, geology, astronomy, gravity, pretty much everything in existence says otherwise.

And then you have the story of Jesus. Not only is it a direct replica of Horus, but also mirrors a number of other older religions' prophets and gods. Asklepios, Hercules, Dionysus, Osiris, Mithra, Krishna, Buddha, Apollonius of Tyana, all have an abundance of similarities in their stories as Jesus did in his. Not just generalities either, but extremely detailed similarities from nicknames, virgin birth, dying on the cross, being tempted by their arch rival in the desert, walking on water, more and more.

The sun-god Horus was worshipped nearly 1,000 years before the story of Jesus. Check these parallels:

1.Both were conceived of a virgin.
2.Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
3.Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
4.Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph.
5.Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
6.Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
7.Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
8.Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
9.Both births were announced by angels (this si nto the same as number 7).
10.Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
11.Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men".
12.After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
13.To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to "arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
14.When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
15.Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
16.Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
17.Both were baptized at age 30.
18.Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
19.Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
20.Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
21.Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
22.Both have 12 disciples.
23.Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
24.Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
25.Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
26.Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, "house of Anu").
27.Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.
28.Both were crucified.
29.Both were crucified next to two thieves.
30.Both were buried in a tomb.
31.Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back "three days" later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).
32.Both had their resurrection announced by women.
33.Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.
34.Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means "anointed one").
35.Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower.
36.Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).
37.Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd's crook.
38.Horus was born in Anu ("the place of bread") and Jesus was born in Bethlehem ("the house of bread").
39."The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: 'Out of Egypt have I called my son.'"
40.Both were transfigured on the mount.
41.The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of "Madonna and Child."
Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called "Immaculate".
42.Horus says: "Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power." And Jesus says: "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once."
Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).

link



Then you have other stories such as:

~ The Book of Genesis’s Flood Story Mirrors The Epic Of Gilgamesh From Hundreds Of Years Earlier

~ God decided to send a worldwide flood. This would drown men, women, children, babies and infants, as well as eliminate all of the land animals and birds.
~ God knew of one righteous man, Ut-Napishtim or Noah.
~ God ordered the hero to build a multi-story wooden ark (called a chest or box in the original Hebrew), and the hero initially complained about the assignment to build the boat.
~ The arc would have many compartments, a single door, be sealed with pitch and would house one of every animal species.
~ A great rain covered the land with water.
~ The arc landed on a mountain in the Middle East.
~ The first two birds returned to the ark. The third bird apparently found dry land because it did not return.
~ The hero and his family left the ark, ritually killed an animal, offered it as a sacrifice.
~ The Babylonian gods seemed genuinely sorry for the genocide that they had created. The God of Noah appears to have regretted his actions as well, because he promised never to do it again.

Then you have all the specifics within the bible that just make no sense at all. For instance, how landlocked animals made it onto the Arc, and how there are no fossil records of a mass extinction from a great flood

a reply to: thepowerisinyou

I could go on for days at how Christianity is plainly and utterly false.

thepowerisinyou
sometimes feelings say better than logic!

You can feel that you're beliefs are accurate all you want. The level at which you feel that does not validate the beliefs. Facts do. And the facts say otherwise.

a reply to: Ghost147

Im starting to like you and pity you at the same time. But God takes care of the whole flock! )))

a reply to: Ghost147

You never had any communication with God, feel loved, feel protected? F**k facts, have some faith....

a reply to: Ghost147

Pray, trust God, He is always there for you, don't dissappoint Him, respect His word, don't push Him away!