1984. It really is happening, isn't it?

a reply to: Sublimecraft

True, but these figures are rarely ever exposed by it. It is almost as if they are immune somehow.

I suspect it has much to do with their ability to use the monies (they have stolen from the people) to obfuscate who they really are, what they do and how they operate.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I suspect it has much to do with their ability to use the monies (they have stolen from the people) to obfuscate who they really are, what they do and how they operate.

Ever think of the Bilderbergs? They're an organization packed to the gills with the most wealthy, most powerful, most influential and certainly the greediest, most power hungry ever to walk the planet. They do not allow the public or media anywhere close them during a gathering.

To them, the human species is a tool for personal use.

It appears it may be happening as it was written for the most part....

But what must be considered is the possibility it is happening because it was written in the book 1984 at all.

Self fulfilling prophesy is one of those things that happen when people read things they never would have thought of themselves and subconsciously influence it to happen for one reason or another. Kind of like crowdfunding and the like function. If enough people believe in something, true or not, it might just become reality simply from their collective belief that it will happen.

Government Propaganda and religion are truly dangerous things.

Just because it is in a movie doesn't make it reality, many have said. TV doesn't effect me they say....

Yeah it does.

a reply to: redoubt

What leads you to believe we might learn from it?

I think that the difference between whether on sees it solely as Huxley's world or Orwell's world is based in which side of the social paradigm we have received our programming. Kind of fascinating really, maybe we will see a thread on that someday.

Either way, as long as an individual sees reality as, say, right wing propaganda.. perception of information can be used to determine actions and interactions (or lack of).

I don't feel that anyone could have guessed how successfully and reliably the human mind can be programmed. Not only without the individuals notice, but also including defense mechanisms.

It applies to all of us, rather than the story that one group has it done while others are paragons of Truth. Some methods seem much more effective than others though.

I think what will be learned is how to do this cultural/social shaping with greater overall benefit, as it is currently being done to great detriment due to ignorance. I have my doubts the population at large will learn much of anything..

Huxley was right over Orwell IMO. Orwell thought more fear and force would be required - it's not really. Stuff is required - just endlessly accessible stuff. Very easy to do in the modern world. You've got people waiting for their guns to be taken - something that will never happen. Because it doesn't need to happen - all that's needed is stuff.

a reply to: Floydshayvious

They were BOTH right...that's the irony of the whole thing!

It's called "playing both ends against the middle".

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: humanityrising

It should therefore be mandatory for all politicians, police officers and indeed all public servants and government workers to have a threat score assessment undertaken and the results published to protect the interests of voters and taxpayers.

It could be an awesome tool to weed out the criminals currently holding positions of authority and power.

This is what my girlfriend said, if they can use it on us we can use it on them. Then I brought up the possibility of a "green only" bar, shudders.

Laws and all them things only apply to the little guy....5th would be the new word to say and make a nice song about...
Which way will it wiggle when all the light sheds

a reply to: Sublimecraft

a reply to: humanityrising

Yes it has been happening all along, they have just been waiting for tech to develop enough so they can put a survelliance on each individual. Smartphone is their latest product but not final one as they haven`t covered all the world`s population and it is way too easy to dispose it.

With coming nanotech it will be a nanochip in the water, food, vaccines...You won`t be able to get rid of it that easily and you will be tagged like cattle. They will have everything on you, from where you go, what you do, what your interests are to your temperature level, hormone level. blood pressure...and they may even be able to change your wellfare by injecting chems into your body to make you happy or stressed, to harm yourself or another person. If this sounds like fiction to you now, think again...it is the exact pattern where we are going.

What you are seeing is the marginalization of the extremes. The extremes can no longer be used as an explanation of a negative alternative. The goal posts are effectively and progressively being moved closer together. The social playing field is being narrowed.

The end result is a narrow line society must walk. To step off the line in either direction is deemed progressively more socially unacceptable. Once this is accepted by the masses, then deviation from the line goes from being a moral issue to a legal one. Step off the line and you break the law.

It's like a giant toilet bowl in the process of flushing. Society, swirling ever closer to the Orwellian center of political correctness, is the waste being flushed.

a reply to: humanityrising

Well 1984 was run-away communism, and Brave New World was run-away consumerism.

We, in America, are dealing with over-consumption and more closely reflect Huxley's vision. Communist China or the former USSR would be more along the lines of 1984.

Of course, in the real world no society is strictly one or the other, but rather a blend or the two. America is like 70% Huxley, and 30% Orwell.

The thing is, the two ends of the spectrum need one another to propagate themselves...

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Right, but both paths lead to the same place. They just take different routes getting there.

The end result is people are rendered 'bot-ish', they are ripe for control. People are no longer allowed, nor able, to think for themselves. The "individual" is no longer allowed to exist.

There is only the "collective"

One path is apathy, and the other cowardice.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

This is something I can't seem to get through to people...

If you go to far either left OR right on the political spectrum you end up at the same place, it's circular and not a straight line with two opposing end points.

I really think people only see what they want to see. If someone is more conservative, they're more likely to view the "big bad government" in 1984 as where we are. If someone is more liberal, they're more likely to see Brave New World as more applicable to us today.

If you already have a predisposition to fearing big government, your brain is going to draw connections/examples to 1984. That doesn't mean that 1984 is actually closer to what we have though.

The same with Brave New World...if you are more along the lines of the Occupy movement and see big business and corporations as polluting our minds and culture...you're going to agree more with Huxley.

Looking around what actually touches upon us on a daily basis the most, I'd say entertainment and "pleasure-seeking" seems to be numbing us more than some kind of over bearing big brother government.

It's a house of cards. Think about it...

On the one side barbed wire closes in, and on the other 87,000 flavors of ice cream. Both sides are replete with regulations and rules. On one side you get a carrot for following the rules, on the other you get the stick for breaking the rules. Some say the carrot cannot exist without the stick (and vice versa), but this isn't true. The 'carrot & stick' mentality removes individuality out of the equation. Over time, the carrots AND the sticks multiply geometrically.

Pretty soon, no one really knows what carrot or what stick they should be paying attention to. So, they just roll over and say "just tell me what you want me to do and I will do it". This is the final chapter in both parodies, followed by...

THE END.

a reply to: humanityrising

I have tried to "get rid of" my social media accounts, seems you can cancel them but they cannot be deleted.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I gave you a star because your avatar helped sooth me, brought me back from this crazy thread. Then I read your post and would have starred you again.

Thank you.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

This is really important and everyone should at least read your post. I have to say and relate to the last point you made, would take us off topiuc but maybe a new thread to help find answers as to how we can take our selves, our loved ones and family especially our young ones into a new direction once lost in that land of pleasure quests.

a reply to: antar

I can give you one answer...personal accountability.

The further we as a society drift away from personal accountability the more susceptible we become to outside control. When a society becomes more personably accountable for their actions they are allowed more autonomy because the expectation is they will live within the boundaries of that society.

The second item is understanding. We has a human race need to understand there WILL be differences from one society to another. We need to recognize these differences and respect the boundaries around them. This is NOT about tolerance, but rather the need for more than one boundary. Cultural and religious groupings are probably the easiest example to use. There are different morals which apply to these different cultural groups. The notion the world can exist as one big happy homogenous 'commune' is rubbish! When everyone is free to do what they want, whenever and where ever they want...no one is free. Modern society needs to accept that if you want to act a certain way then you should be expected to go where this action is culturally acceptable. The notion mankind will ever find common ground for all cultural differences is like the notion of boiling the ocean; it's not going to happen.

a reply to: Serdgiam

I don't feel that anyone could have guessed how successfully and reliably the human mind can be programmed. Not only without the individuals notice, but also including defense mechanisms.

Truth.

...

It applies to all of us, rather than the story that one group has it done while others are paragons of Truth. Some methods seem much more effective than others though.

I think what will be learned is how to do this cultural/social shaping with greater overall benefit, as it is currently being done to great detriment due to ignorance.

Cultural/social shaping is a fool's errand. The human mind is not a common grotto. There are, right now... roughly, 8 billion human beings and each are as unique as their fingerprints... no two the same. None.

For those who disagree... what?

...

I have my doubts the population at large will learn much of anything..

To the contrary. The human race learns from experience. The problem is in what is lost over purposeful generation forgetfulness.

Example? Everything learned from those who fought WW2 is being today, cast aside.
Why? Because every generation wants to be the ruler of their lifetime and to accept what is taught of history, is... in their young minds, more than a bow of respect.

If our species had longer life spans then we'd be in a far different environment. But... it doesn't work that way when human existence must be passed so regularly.

The foolishness and folly of youth, owns us.

...

a reply to: humanityrising

If only the government of the United States would realise. that
technology has already brought this society out of it's most dark
archaic age. No longer does it need VIOLENCE in any way to FORCE
it's policies on anyone. Surely this is what those of us, who are not
a part of gov. must call attention to. I believe technology has easily
brought us to a point where people can just be made to comply.

Without a gun to our heads so to speak. But we see gov. violence
on the rise right along with the increasing high tech. As if it
becomes more emboldened by it's hate for us and the tighter grip
being provided. And gov. wants us to believe it cares about us?
It cares when a group of our children are gunned down? Some how
I find that hard to keep clearly in mind.

So the way I see it, Orwell and Huxley both nailed it.