Gravitation under human control?

So i hope this has not been posted yet:

Gravitation under human control?

An article at the sciencedaily site.

Manmade and controled gravity. I bet this will stir
some in the community.
André Füzfa of Namur University claims he can create
and control gravitational fields with magnetic fields...
Think ive heard that before...

In his article, Füzfa has proposed, with supporting mathematical proof,
a device with which to create detectable gravitational fields. This device is
based on superconducting electromagnets and therefore relies on technologies
routinely used, for example, at CERN or the ITER reactor.

Link to atricle

I bet this guy and his invention disappear quick!

I'm calling b.s. on this. Everything we know about gravity shows that it directly correlates to mass, which a magnetic field does not have.

Relativity does indeed imply that very strong magnetic fields would have gravitational effects. As it was explained to me, it has to do with energy densities. Which is what half the paper talks about. The other half talks about ways of detecting very, very small gravitational effects which might be produced in the lab, using very strong magnetic fields.

Maybe they can do it.

In this paper, we present two important results:
(1) how space-time is curved around current loops and solenoids carrying arbitrarily large electric currents and (2) how the consequent deviation of light could be detected.

arxiv.org...

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

We do not know everything "we" know.

a reply to: Miccey

I think gravity is electromagnetic electrons.

a reply to: Miccey

Read further in the article.

However, due to the weakness
of the gravitational interaction, even the strongest
magnetic fields humans can currently generate will only
produce tiny space-time deformations. Detecting them
would constitute a true experimental challenge which
we glimpse at in this paper. Such a detection would
nevertheless open the way to new laboratory tests of the
equivalence principle.

The effect is real and has been theoretically known since the beginning of general relativity.

The size of the effect is extraordinarily small.

The bottom line is a phase shift optically of order of 10^-25 per trip through the interferometer.


If you want to engineer something, you have to discover some effect immensely stronger than this one. So far, I haven't seen it. If there were something, wouldn't we have seen something in astrophysics as a natural phenomenon? Maybe, but then again I haven't heard of natural superconductors.

Human beings use machines made out of Earth metals...how could they possibly know any truth about outside Earth conditions, when the conditions are not met in the machine by purpose of its own bodily presence?

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
I'm calling b.s. on this. Everything we know about gravity shows that it directly correlates to mass, which a magnetic field does not have.

Relativity says gravity correlates to the stress energy tensor, which is comprised of matter, radiation, and non-gravitational force fields. The reason matter is usually the primary component of gravitational attraction is as mbkennel says, the non mass effects are normally very small, but theoretically not zero. This is partly because the c^2 in E-mc^2 is such a huge number.

So yes the light from your flashlight theoretically has a gravitational field but no you can't measure it because it's too small to measure. Likewise magnetic fields can have gravitational fields too, and whether or not you can measure that depends on how strong the fields are, but as mbkennel's citation notes it would be "a true experimental challenge".

originally posted by: beenharmed
Human beings use machines made out of Earth metals...how could they possibly know any truth about outside Earth conditions

The answer to that question is fascinating, and it has to do with spectral emission and absorption lines. If you don't know what those are, find out and then you'll be well on your way to answering your question. However it seems like an off-topic comment for the subject of this thread.

a reply to: Miccey

I'm a super-laymen in these terms, but I've always thought temperature (or lack of one) and magnetism can go hand in hand in superconductivity and gravity/magnetic distortions.

So im REALLY sorry.
Should have added, I dont expect
artificiall gravety and advanced
spaceflight would come from this.
Alltough the paper IS interesting.

a reply to: Miccey

It's gotta start somewhere right?

a reply to: mbkennel

If there were something, wouldn't we have seen something in astrophysics as a natural phenomenon? Maybe, but then again I haven't heard of natural superconductors.

The effect should theoretically be observable in the gravitational lensing around extremely magnetic stars-- magnetars-- but it would be difficult with our state of knowledge to determine what percentage of deflection is due to mass and what to magnetism, assuming our instruments could find and resolve the effect at all.

a reply to: Miccey

Thank you for bringing the topic in a specific thread.

Among the two experimental setup described in the paper, only the second sounds realistic for me atm.

We particularize the setup as following. We consider a set of 10 stacked anti-Helmholtz coils, each constituted by two superconducting solenoids of same length L=2.5m carrying opposite steady electric current of 20kA (which is similar to CMS-class magnets) spaced by a distance of D=2.5m. The external solenoids have a radius of l=5m and the 10 solenoid shells are chosen equally spaced between r=1m and r=5m. The length of the interferometer arm has been chosen to L=50m

But still, unless the CERN or a similar institution kicks in, the labs in Namur are likely to be to small for such an experiment.

Well, after reading the comments here and reading some more on the subject, I guess I was wrong. I had no idea that magnetic fields could have gravitational effects. I learned something new today.

Muuhuhhhaahahahaha
I thought the article was nice...
Read the paper...
Now, im not saying i "understand" it
and the math is WAAAY beyond me,
but it IS interesting...

This is bound to fail. Electromagnets cannot bend space any more than large inertial masses can

originally posted by: Nochzwei
This is bound to fail. Electromagnets cannot bend space any more than large inertial masses can

Everything bends space. Maybe even space.

What if the super conductor is coupled with plasma and strong EM tuned in resonance with a gravity wave would that produce anything useful?

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Wicked feedback.
Better than Hendrix.