Saudi Arabia Cuts Ties With Iran as Fallout From Mass Execution Continues

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: Kratos40
a reply to: Swills

I'm not trying bring on world doom here...but Iran should go to war with Saudi Arabia. Just end this bovine scatology. End it now and let the spoils of war go to the victor.
I am tired of hearing this Sunni vs. Shia crap over and over again. Do the deed and just end it for once and for all. Just don't involve American soldiers. We've had enough of M.E. crap. Bomb yourselfs to the stone age, because that's where youre ideologies belong.

End rant

Yeah I imagine people felt the same way about Europe before the two wars that killed together 80 to 100 million people.


Imagine that, WW1 killed 20 million and WWII killed 60 to 85 million


Human beings have to have something to fight over don’t they?


Either religion or nation.


Mostly nation with religion on the side

God's population controll

I know where you coming from my friend, but endless back-channel diplomacies, treaties, understandings on Mecca/ Medina visitations. Oil exports, imports. So on and so forth. Just end it. Yes, I am callous for saying such things. It would be a culling of humans that pollute this world. It's VERY easy for me to say it from a safe place, on my digital device. But it needs to be done. Manifested.
Just let it be. Where I live I am protected by an arsenal of nuclear (and maybe neutron) weapons. I am calling it as I see it. Let those ancient ideologies of intolerance, mysoginy, and backwards thinking religions destroy themselves. The world deserves it. Humanity will be better off.

a reply to: crazyewok

do the house of saud actually run the country no i don't think they do and i don't think they have for along time seemsto be run by the crazy clerivs the saud family is just the figure heads

a reply to: Willtell
yeah but first world war death toll could be much higher if you factor in the spanish flu pandemic that was believed partially from the troops returning home and the poor conditions europe was in at end of war.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

originally posted by: tothetenthpower

We need some leaders who are willing to tackle that beast.

I couldn't agree more, and I am very glad to read more of this sentiment coming from the US lately (at least on ATS).

Let me ask you though...

Let's say a major political player from the US openly made this his agenda, would the people of the United States support this?
Do you think they would vote for this, despite the costs and the substantial efforts and time such a vast change would require from the US populace?

*In other words: How realistic is it that the US does the right thing, even when it hurts?

Well a Saudi-Sunni vs Iran-Shia war will make Rwanda look likes a picnic. The real trick will be turning most of the Arab and Persian Muslims into sane people again. The whole Middle East will go up in flames and get even more medieval, if that's possible.

Greetings,

Only a couple of posters mentioned Israel and it's a very real possibility there's a TS agreement between the Saudis and Israel for mutual defense against Iran in case of war. Israeli jets flying from Saudis bases could inflict massive damage on the Iranian air force and destroy their navy. Also, the Saudis possess advanced AWACS and would soon have total air supremacy. If Iran retaliates with rockets and WMD it give the Israelis the opportunity to nuke them and take them out for good.

Some posters suggest this could be the start of WWIII and they're right. My best,

The Shia Caliphate was declared over a year ago, with Baghdad as it's capital.

The best way to understand the present is to consider the US lost the Iraq war, and it's as simple as Shia vs Sunni....ISIS & Gulf States & Turkey vs Iran & Baghdad & Hezbollah & Assad.

Forgot to mention this as an extension of the Iran-Iraq War

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: FlyingFox
The Shia Caliphate was declared over a year ago, with Baghdad as it's capital.

The best way to understand the present is to consider the US lost the Iraq war, and it's as simple as Shia vs Sunni....ISIS & Gulf States & Turkey vs Iran & Baghdad & Hezbollah & Assad.

We had AQI down to a couple of hundred guys who were telling their recruiting chain not to send any more recruits to iraq that they had lost the war and their efforts would be better used elsewhere. AQI is the group that started ISIL. Once again- we (as in we warfighters) did not lose any damned war. Where we are now we got because that lib in the white house half heartedly tried for a SOFA because he wanted out anyway. When i hear someone say we lost the war i want to vomit (on the person who said it.) by no means is 200 guys that wanted to quit the victors in a war.

a reply to: crazyewok

I am afraid they are going to exactly such scenario. Now Iraq is Shia dominated and openly siding against Saudi, Iran could have direct land contact with Saudi. Let alone all missiles across the Persian Gulf.

It is highly doubtful that after the world outcry against the Saudi non-human-right policy, the US will be able to aid Saudi in any other way than verbal. IS is still vital despite all the bombings and a new war Iran-Saudi taking all of the world attention will only strengthen it.

EU foreign minister warned of consequences after the killing of the cleric.
And even Dubai New Year's Eve fire signaled the coming end of the Gulf paradise.

Does it matter if the end of the day Saudi nuke Tehran (how did they get it) if we end up with ruined Gulf states and zero oil from there.

Israel is the single biggest issue that still awaits, but for now it seems Israel stays out of the game between Shia and Sunni crazy heads.

WW3 pretty much started in the Middle East. How fast it will go to other parts of the world, or somehow it will be contained there?

Russia is powerfully present in Syria and used every weapon available against IS, except for nuclear.

Do not forget China that is Iran's ally and that maintains the highest route in the world to Pakistan. If Iran is going to lose big, Chinese million troops may move thru Pakistan and change the scales in the region FOREVER.

In all, the equation of pre-2016 world that you see, Israel will bomb Iranian nuclear facilities using Saudi corridor, and Iran won't respond, because of the fear of big doom...is as outdated as the entire post-Cold War period. We are now truly in 21st century with two major options before us:

WW3 that may escalate overnight from every hot spot, may be simultaneously,
or
Disclosure today, not tomorrow, and a new start for humanity, without excluded nations. That choice must be done once, and better before not after.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: FlyingFox
The Shia Caliphate was declared over a year ago, with Baghdad as it's capital.

The best way to understand the present is to consider the US lost the Iraq war, and it's as simple as Shia vs Sunni....ISIS & Gulf States & Turkey vs Iran & Baghdad & Hezbollah & Assad.

We had AQI down to a couple of hundred guys who were telling their recruiting chain not to send any more recruits to iraq that they had lost the war and their efforts would be better used elsewhere. AQI is the group that started ISIL. Once again- we (as in we warfighters) did not lose any damned war. Where we are now we got because that lib in the white house half heartedly tried for a SOFA because he wanted out anyway. When i hear someone say we lost the war i want to vomit (on the person who said it.) by no means is 200 guys that wanted to quit the victors in a war.

Actually the problem in Iraq was the Sunnis and the Kurds were pushed out of power sharing by the Shia who controlled the government. The Sunni militias who formed in 2005 and were payed for by the US were then shunned by the new Shia controled government and they and Saddam's loyalist officers (who had been underground) joined up with and gave ISIS the men and training it needed. It is the same problem that going happen when ISIS is defeated. Unless the US is planning on never ending occupation of Iraq then the US has no military way to win in Iraq. The war was a mistake and we will be cleaning that mess up for decades.

As for the Saudi's and Iran this is not likely to go anywhere. The Saudi's can not invade Iran and any attempt by Iran to move on the Saudi's would bring in the GCC, Jordan, the Arab League, covertly Israel and Turkey. And to make matters worse for Iran most Muslims nations have pledged to defend the Kingdom so long as it is home of Mecca and Medina. And just to complicate things more for Iran half of China's oil comes from Saudi Arabia and fell GCC member Oman. And obviously the US and Europe would not allow an Iranian invasion of SA or any of the Gulf States.

The best thing for America is to stay out of the mideast. Always.

a reply to: Swills

What Led to the Execution of a Shi'ite Cleric in Saudi Arabia?

The execution of Nimr al-Nimr along with Al-Qaida convicts didn't happen in a vacuum: It's Riyadh's way of saying they will crush the militant cause.

a reply to: Willtell

Of course that all depends on ones perspective. You've obviously exposed yours.

True.
I've never tried to hide my personal viewpoint; raised a Catholic but very much Agnostic.
But I recognise and acknowledge that Christian based ethics have had an impact on how I, and probably the vast majority of people in the UK / Europe / USA etc, view things.

We haven’t had any modern holy men of any real stature ( mass following) to decide one way or the other: go to the sane religious people or the insane.

Again, I'd tend to agree with that.
Many have claimed some sort of divine connection but they have lacked mass appeal.

All these religious sectarians have fantasies of a religious superman coming to confirm their cult...its as old as religion

Indeed.
Yet the leaders of these religions will never acknowledge the advent of their 'religious superman' as it would considerably diminish their own power.

a reply to: proteus33

do the house of saud actually run the country no i don't think they do and i don't think they have for along time seemsto be run by the crazy clerivs the saud family is just the figure heads

The Wahhabi's and the Saud family have deep rooted relationship.
countrystudies.us...
The Saud family have political control and the Wahhabi's spiritual control.

But the Saud family's control is weakening and they are facing mounting criticism and opposition due to some recent foreign policy decisions and domestic social issues.
In addition there is seems to be a certain amount of internal division between the 'old guard' and younger members of the royal family.

And their is massive concern over the massive government deficit caused by falling oil prices.

www.theguardian.com...

The Wahhabi's provided spiritual inspiration for IS who also received, and probably still does, financial assistance to the fledgling group from Saudi sources.

However, many in Saudi feel threatened by the emergence of IS and by their strict and barbaric interpretation of Sharia and their stated aims of blowing up the kaaba and other sacred Islamic sites in Saudi.

Many Wahhabi's fear that any reduction in the Saud royal family's power could signify a similar reduction in their power.
When allied to the threat IS pose and the increased power that Shia's have in the region it means The Wahhabi's are feeling truly threatened and vulnerable.
As a result there is a school of thought amongst Wahhabi clerics that they should make a move, remove the Saud family and assume full control of the Saudi nation and subsequently confront their enemies head on.

Many people believe Saudi politics to be very straight forward but, just like Iran, nothing could be further from the truth.

originally posted by: pirhanna
The best thing for America is to stay out of the mideast. Always.

That might be the wisest thing after Iraqi 2 wars.
will America stay out if there is a burning Saudi refinery? The things develop too fast and one may see actual war moves within days if not hours. Sure Iran has enough experience with the Iran-Iraq war. Saudis have the US backing and US bases. Does it make automatically that US is willing to enter into a Saudi-Iran Sunni-Shia war siding with one of the sides?

On the other side, Russia bombs IS with everything at her disposal except for the nuclear weapons, thus saving the government in Damascus from IS. Will Russia stay neutral to Iran-Saudi war, if she supported Iran with weapons and diplomacy? Perhaps at the beginning Russia will stay out. How about if hard stuff is brought in, let say Saudi bought Pakistani nuke and explode it on Iranian major military or nuclear site? Would Russia afford to stay neutral in such a case? Or wil declare ultimatum on everyone next who takes the next nuclear bomb, of immediate and total destruction?

It seems premeditated Saudi steps. As if they planned it long before executing the cleric (whom I heard for a first time now, they made him a kind of "martyr saint" that otherwise he would probably not). Indeed, the Saudi embassy in Iran "pogrom" is something "made in Iran". That diplomatic war already costed too much to the Islamic republic in the last decades. But, one should've expected reaction and that was the weakest one. As the reaction of Beijing after the US mistaken bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, Serbia. The US embassy in Beijing had its windows knocked out by the angry mob, although there was no fire inside. That happens around the world. Recently, US embassy in Khartoum, Sudan, was taken over by the mob, without fire. Nevertheless that made the US close its embassy there. Saudi royal family should've expected such a reaction when giving green light to the execution in first place, and that is the mildest reaction possible for a country like Iran. Seems Saudi executions were premeditated along with their consequences for a long -awaited crash with the arch-enemy. How fast they decided on diplomatic and now economic severe of ties. That doesn't happen overnight.

Will Saudi fight Iran "until the last drop of blood of American and Israeli soldiers"?

I bet it wouldn't work this time. Even if it worked in the Cold War. Because, after all, US has its own interests and its own oil. Unless we are not going straight into the big nuclear doom. Israel has its own problems, not to defend Saudi and the rest of kingdoms from the islamic republic. What will be the fate of Israel if Saudi ruins Iran once and for all? Who will be the next arch-enemy of Israel, and by extension, to the American interests as well?

Let not be blinded about the real nature of a regime that puts in prison or beheads for "crimes" like having a Bible at home or praying to the Christian God. Let face the truth.

The talks that EU will not allow Iran to invade Saudi Arabia, do not rest on facts. First, there is no invasion of Iran, there is Saudi Arabia gross provocation against every Shia muslim everywhere in the world. EU is more balanced than that view of it, it already warned of consequences Saudi Arabia, and will not fight Iran at all.

Chinese troops may appear on the shores of Pakistan sooner than expected. As their ships appeared near Somalia and even in the Mediterranean.

There is may be a slight chance to avert WW3 if acting right now in the opposite direction of the escalation between Shia and Sunni, that tomorrow will be escalation between Jews and Muslims and Christians, and Buddhists- Communists. Let stop the fire now. I already said one of the few (or the only one) means available to do it.

Hope the current Sunni-Shia war that already is fought in Syria and elsewhere, will not escalate to a world war to defend Christianity. It will need something more than "martyrdom" for the Christianity to survive in our days of nukes and underground cities. Guess who.

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: crazyewok

do the house of saud actually run the country no i don't think they do and i don't think they have for along time seemsto be run by the crazy clerivs the saud family is just the figure heads

Does it matter?

The whole corrupt lot can end up dead for all I care.

originally posted by: MrSpad
And obviously the US and Europe would not allow an Iranian invasion of SA or any of the Gulf States.

Well you can go lay your life down to go help those barabrian.

But there will be zero support from me

We live in one common planet that is too narrow for all powers in the nuclear age.

Seeing what happens with crazy heads in both Saudi Arabia and Iran, Syria and elsewhere, I reach to the concusion taken by the Vatican authorities of a supranational institution different from today's UN who can give a better order. New World Order? Let it come if it will be better to live in on earth!

The civilized world cannot allow a monarch and his cohorts to give "justice" as seen with the religious leader whose name I don't remember. We cannot allow ISIS or anyone else to behead Christians and others who just don't believe what they do. Christianity is persecuted in Saudi Arabia and other places. Of course the religion is only one issue among many others when we speak of freedom in 21st century on one only planet. There cannot be anymore double and triple standards. We either live together or die together, who said that quote

We are either for freedom of religion and conscience, or against it. As Christian, I would say, I am either for Christ and his words "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free", while respecting everyone's free choice of religion, or against it.

Obviously Saudi Arabia doesn't follow the reciprocity, not even after the meeting with pope Benedict who was given a sword, not even formally (Christianity is punishable before THEIR law but they require freedom in countless mosques in Europe and even some churches who offer Muslim worship). I don't say that Iran is an example of freedoms. But this time Saudis did it wrong, and did it big, to the extend to concern everyone in the world, not just the people who work in the kingdom and are required not to worship the Christian God.

The world cannot stay silent, and it is not silent. Already EU diplomats, French and German, warned about escalation, and did not damn Iran as the perpetrator. Even USA is careful in its public statements of the situation, that is equal to distancing itself from Saudi Arabia's radical position and executions. Saudi Arabia is about to set the world on fire, having an equal arch enemy Iran to be ready to fight as well. I do not want to be hostage to those fanatics! Israel is another topic that may soon be entered into the equation of the Middle East. The world is a virtual hostage of people and rulers who think as outdated as 10th century and the crusaders! It must be stopped. If necessary, by military means as Russia is doing with IS. Perhaps an ultimatum to everyone who dares to use nuclear weapons first. Because most likely the regional powers in the region already have it, if Pakistan have it, one of the poorest nations on the planet. We cannot allow that to happen, or it will have consequences far outreaching the destruction of one country or one civilization. The climate change will look like a spring compared to what could come as chain reaction to the fanaticism shown on the TVs these days. That was the big surprise of 2016 and not the expected terrorist attacks this time. The world must act, now. Once US takes position for Saudi Arabia and Russia for Iran, plus China and the rest, WW3 is inevitable. Let the sane reason prevent that from happening in first place.

Seems the world already reacts
www.rt.com...

16:42 GMT
Germany is planning to reexamine its arms export to Saudi Arabia after the Gulf kingdom executed 47 people, German Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel said.

"We can see that it was right to neither deliver tanks nor G36 assault rifles to Saudi Arabia," Gabriel said. "Now we have to review whether we also need to evaluate defensive armaments more critically in the future."

originally posted by: Teddy916
a reply to: Freeborn

Yes, I agree that the Saud dynasty knows that any day they could fall from power; ushering in a new ear of wars for control of Muslim holy lands.

When describing land with lots of oil drill holes in it, wouldn't it be written "holey" lands?"

Seriously though, control of Mecca would be the #1 populist motivator, but for those in power (or who would hold power) the oil fields are the acquisition target.