Netflix's Docuseries Making a Murderer

originally posted by: swimmer15
a reply to: mzinga
His blood but no prints...

What could have made that kind of mark? Its like there's 2 dots and the one on the left is smudged upwards and the one on the right is smudged or arches off to the right, the blood kind of dies down right after the dot, but then gets thicker as it arches to the right. What could have done that? They don't drip either, as far as I can tell, so there wasn't sufficient enough blood to cause it to drip down.

a reply to: C84K2

I dont know... The blood smear is another huge question mark imo.... I mean even if gloves are worn to not leave prints, one woukd think if it soaked through his gloves it would be in other places. As far as smear pattern i dont know, but doesn't look like from a natural movement... Looks like two points of contact going opposite directions originating at bottom of the swoop and moving up (coming from artist/paint expience).one on right looks most un natural, has a fat point on bottom, thin then fat fan like swoop, seems like would have to touch, lift and repress and drag blood accross to create that not what id think from a grazing contact id expect. Maybe odd given location but i dont know, big hands and fat fingers, cut on pinky knuckle about only thing can think of lol

More question marks lol.... fans spot a pic with Theresa's car keys in hand.... Notice i said keys?

www.yahoo.com...

a reply to: C84K2

I saw someone on reddit post a picture of marks made with a q-tip and i kid you not they made the same marks almost identical, i have been trying to find it but i am having trouble. Either way not a hard test to conduct, paper q-tip and smoke red paint or ketchup lol.

Honestly though, those two dots look like a q-tip head to me

a reply to: C84K2

That blood is to red. Dried blood is like a dark brown oxidation look. It is red unless it has preserve in it.

New here. I'm probably an 8 year reader here. There's a picture getting talked about tonight that shows Theresa standing in front of her RAV4 . In her hand it is being said that she's holding a keychain of her vehicle with numerous keys on it , It's hard for me to make out. Very interesting though since when they found her key in averts bedroom there was only one key on it. Forgive my ignorance of being able to post it but maybe someone smarter than me can

Jerry Buting had this to say

“Dean and I worked on that case for 14 months before that trial, the last six months of which I did nothing but work on this case. We had 25,000 pages of discovery and police reports to go through, we had hundreds and hundreds of hours of tape recorded phone calls and interrogations and aerial footage, every salvage yard and expert opinions. But we were only two minds. What I’m discovering is that a million minds are better than two. Some of these people online have found things with a screen shot of a picture that we missed.”

“There’s a picture of [murder victim Teresa Halbach] that I’ve looked at a thousand times that shows her standing in front of her vehicle, the RAV4. She’s got a camera in one hand and she’s also got keys. And it’s like a key ring. You can see there’s a bunch of keys there like a house key, probably a photography studio key, maybe her parent’s house key. And those were never recovered. Instead we found this single key.”

“Now we did challenge that, about how unusual it was, why is she walking around with one key? But I don’t think I caught the fact that there was a photograph showing what she really carried around with her is a bunch of keys. And none of those keys were ever found.”

originally posted by: swimmer15
a reply to: mzinga

A big question burning in my mind as well...If he actually did it, its obvious he tried to cover his tracks, by lack of other evidence. Idiot or not, were talking about a guy who could likely strip a car down to scrap metal in under an hour. The car is definitely another piece that makes no sense whatsoever. His blood but no prints... His sweat under the hood latch, makes no sense at all... Are we talking the latch to pop the hood in the car or under the hood?... Neither makes any sense, what the hell was he doing under the hood, change alternator? How sweat get under latch in car and not everwhere else?

Just to clarify, there was NO "sweat" under the latch. It was just his DNA, not specifically sweat...Could've come from anywhere. Kratz is the one calling it sweat but that has been debunked many times.

Where was she killed? It wasn't in that trailer or the garage...Its VERY hard to clean up even a little bit of blood...No way SA and DB could've cleaned up every bit of her blood had she , in fact, been murdere do the way the State said she was.

But then was her throat cut or was she shot by a .22?
Also, experts have said a typical bonfire does not get not enough to produce bones in that condition. They were likely burned someplace else and put there.

I'd look at the boyfriend, roommate, the Taydichs, and even Colburn and Lenk.

The weirdest part for me was Colburn calling in her plate number TWO DAYS before her vehicle was found...

originally posted by: Sinfulknowledge
a reply to: C84K2

I saw someone on reddit post a picture of marks made with a q-tip and i kid you not they made the same marks almost identical, i have been trying to find it but i am having trouble. Either way not a hard test to conduct, paper q-tip and smoke red paint or ketchup lol.

Honestly though, those two dots look like a q-tip head to me

I said that on reddit about the QTip in the MaM subreddit and I guess someone actually did it?? That's awesome!

I love reddit.

a reply to: C84K2

I proposed early on on reddit that a QTip made those marks.

I'm am girl, who loves makeup and I'm also a nurse so I know what kind of marks a QTip makes, lol.

Plus, Kratz leaves out the fact that SA had a cut on his left finger or hand, not the right.

It would be very difficult to make those marks, on the right side of the dash, with a cut on your left finger...

a reply to: swimmer15
Yup, question marks.
The link you provided, about the keys, at first I didn't really see anything, but when I looked more closely, in her right hand, there's 2 "something's" that are jutting down out of her hand. Yeah those could very well be keys. Nice find.
A few weeks ago on this thread I was wondering about the keys, why only one was found, where was her house key, other keys, and whoever has her house key, I think should have some explaining to do (if they can even find them after all this time, they're more than likely gone forever though).

a reply to: Sinfulknowledge

This one!? Holy $&#*$ Is that for real!?
imgur.com...

Here's the thread- www.reddit.com... /comments/41qomu/has_anyone_tried_to_duplicate_the_blood_smear/?

I've went to this site a few weeks ago, but have been busy, ill have to go back and look at some of the threads cuz I find this interesting. Thanks for sharing that!

(IDK if its been posted before, but for anyone that wants the homepage of the reddit site for this topic-)
www.reddit.com...

originally posted by: mzinga
I just come out with the most obvious point. If you had spent 18 years in jail for something you didn't do. Even if you wound up doing the murder. Would you really park the car on your own property, and have her bones within 50 feet of your residence? Honestly the most obvious explanation doesn't compute even for a village idiot.

It becomes even more incredible when you add in the fact that he had access to both a car crusher and an incinerator but chose to instead, park the car on his property and burn the body in a barrel/bonfire.

I cannot say whether Steven Avery is guilty or innocent. What I can say is that there is more than enough reasonable doubt that neither him nor his nephew should be in prison.

a reply to: tothetenthpower
Avery is by all too many accounts a troubled and problematic individual.

It's truly sad bungling and corruption (even if the latter were well-intended by way of an honest belief of guilt) led to a troubled and problematic conviction.

Is Avery guilty? Possible. Is Avery innocent? Also possible. But given the ludicrous mishandling by involved agencies and conflicts of interest, the state in my opinion (even considering the evidence not covered in the series) by no means proved guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Shadiness, unanswered questions/paths unfollowed, and seemingly obvious collusion coupled with US jurors' inability to realize that suspects do not have to be PROVEN INNOCENT led to some great theater.

Would I prefer Avery back on the street? Personally, perhaps not - but I'd much rather see the problems with this wreck of a system fixed. Had Avery won his $36 million first, I doubt he'd be in prison now. In the US, there *should* be no possibility of an innocent losing their liberty at the behest of the state. But it happens entirely too often.

I very much look forward to developments with Zellner on Avery's side note. She's a hawk, and there's too much low-hanging fruit here for her to not at least find a very viable angle to work.

Grace and peace.

a reply to: lovebeck

Yeah, those could totally be q tip markings that did that - crazy!
So many odd ball things about this, and I haven't really done much digging. Watched the 10 episodes, and been to the reddit site, but been busy so not to much.

a reply to: Thenail
swimmer15 has a link to that a few posts up from yours. Thanks for the interview with the attorney about it.

a reply to: lovebeck

Just to clarify, there was NO "sweat" under the latch. It was just his DNA, not specifically sweat...Could've come from anywhere. Kratz is the one calling it sweat but that has been debunked many times.

Hear hear - "How could the police have accomplished this!!?? What such evidence do police collection??!!"

Well, you've been all up in his property for how many days now in how unorthodox a search, exactly? When this evidence came to light, had he yet been in custody after charges filed? Surely you can't collect someone's DNA while you have them incarcerated in your facilities, I take it..

Where was she killed? It wasn't in that trailer or the garage...Its VERY hard to clean up even a little bit of blood...No way SA and DB could've cleaned up every bit of her blood had she , in fact, been murdere do the way the State said she was.

But then was her throat cut or was she shot by a .22?

Quibble, quibble...

Also, experts have said a typical bonfire does not get not enough to produce bones in that condition. They were likely burned someplace else and put there.

No, the remains were entangled! Because...transported ash and cremains apparently can't fall in amongst other debris and...there was obviously the power of evil increasing the heat. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain for some reason deciding to transport some of the remains to the quarry or whanot for S&Gs.

I'd look at the boyfriend, roommate, the Taydichs, and even Colburn and Lenk.

Colburn and Lenk are definite red flags for me.

The weirdest part for me was Colburn calling in her plate number TWO DAYS before her vehicle was found...

I'm not sure WHAT it would take to excuse this for me otherwise...so suspect.

Regards.

a reply to: C84K2

The key was a big question for me as well...ever been to a junckyard? I have a buddy whos dad ran one, and i have been to many considering my first brand new car ever was last year :-) (actually enjoy working on cars that aren't my daily driver, the time issue)... Keys are not dealt with same way in all but they are delt with a specific way in all... Theres ust way too many to keep track of... Finding in random spot was odd to me, add in the fact that it was not spotted by others and i just aint buying it.

I find this whole thing insanely odd, on one hand i always try give cops benifit of the doubt.
On the other, lack of evidence would make SA seem like a mastermind, but i can assure you if SA (someone who knew lot like back of his hand) wanted to cover his tracks on a 40 acre junck yard finding any evidence whatsoever would be painstaking unless someone led them too it. And that car and key would have been easier for him to make disapear than the body.

a reply to: C84K2

YES! YOU FOUND IT! GOOD LOOKIN!

And i tried it my self really not that hard to make marks like that with a q-tip

so i know its real and this to me is just to much of a mind F*&^

a reply to: lovebeck

You deserve an award!

you+q-tip=GENIUS


and if you think about it, what better way to leave a small blood stain without making a mess or contaminating the sample than to use a q-tip?

a reply to: lovebeck

Where was she killed? It wasn't in that trailer or the garage...Its VERY hard to clean up even a little bit of blood...No way SA and DB could've cleaned up every bit of her blood had she , in fact, been murdere do the way the State said she was.

It is actually not all that hard to clean blood up, or out of something. I have had to do it numerous times myself. (wow that sounds bad). Working in a veterinary hospital, there have been times where I would be covered in blood, as well as coming from a family of hunters, things happen, boot prints on mom's new carpet.... I saved my dad and husbands life with peroxide. It's not hard at all if you know what you are doing. Now with that being said, there are approx 4.5 liters of blood in the human body. IF she had her throat cut and they hit an artery, there would be quite a bit of blood to clean up, but it COULD be done. I don't know if it could be done in the amount of time that he had to do it, honestly I don't think so.

some one else pointed out that dried blood is not red its brown, and that is true, how did those experts on the stand not say anything about that. Its not like its new information, people who deal with blood have known that fact for centuries.

Again, it's all shady as all get out, and while watching the show, the medical technician in me was screaming all kinds of things at the tv, My husband who, lets just say knows interrogation, was all kinds of worked up. I feel that less than moral things were done, and their cases should have never gone to trial.

a reply to: Squirlli

You know that just because blood is not visible does not mean there isn't any blood and or DNA

new techniques in forensics have made it harder for suspects to get away with murder by simply cleaning with bleach

"Traces of latent blood can be detected even after repeated cleansing of the crime scene. Fluorescein is highly sensitive to the hemassociated molecules (enzymes and iron) in the red blood cells, (1:105,000 depending upon the dilution rate of the working solution) [1-2]. Traces of these hemassociated molecules will embed themselves on the substright, even after multiple cleanings. Fluorescein can also be used to discover and enhance shoe tracks leading from a bloody crime scene thus allowing investigators to follow the suspect's trail [3]. Fluorescein can be used to locate traces of latent blood on clothing, even after it has been laundered several times (best preformed at the lab). It can also be used on vehicles (inside and out) [4]. Some studies have been conducted on the development of bloody latent finger/palm prints [5]."
www.crime-scene-investigator.net...


There is even mainstream covered murder cases that provide an example of what i am talking about

"Police believe that although the suspects washed the knife clean of any blood, they were unable to remove the DNA. It is possible that Knox left her traces on the knife while washing it.

Mr Profazio added: 'The knife had been cleaned with bleach, which removes blood, but not DNA."
www.telegraph.co.uk...

again if we are to believe what the state argues happened to Teresa actually happen then think about it

not one hair, finger print, skin cell, drop of sweat, drop of saliva, drop of blood, shoe imprint, any type of dna was found,
that's after they allegedly cut her hair off cut her throat and shot her.

to me that is just unrealistic, there is no way Avery could have cleaned his trailer and especially his freaking garage.
I mean come on, look at all the stuff in the garage, its all dusty, dirty, oily, and FULL OF AVERY'S DNA but not TERESA'S.

What, did he kill her then clean everything up, sprinkled some dust on it, and sneezed all over the garage to recontaminate everything with his dna?

if forensics can pick up full dna profiles from a shirt that has been washed multiple times then im pretty sure good lab techs and investigators can find a sprinkle of blood from what allegedly was a very bloody scene.

Sorry but you cleaning your carpets free of red stains doesn't mean you got rid of the evidence just ask a forensics specialist.