A racist black professor lectures all white people on how racist they are.

OK, people.

That'll be enough!!

Discuss the issue, not each other.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

The professor has a right to express himself as he chooses.

I disagree with his article, and with his general position that "all White people are racist" because it's one-sided.

I believe that we are all racist to some degree (i.e. we notice racial differences and allow those differences to affect our behavior). I believe the degree to which we control the effects of that internal racism denote the quality of our character.

He is an educator whether we like what he teaches or not. Just because we disagree with it, doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to teach it. We do not control university curriculum (nor should we).

He's not causing any harm by his rhetoric, in fact, he's generating conversation on the issues.

His letter does call out racism; it does encourage us to look for it in ourselves and be aware of it's impact. That is a good thing. His unilateral approach to the issue (only Whites are racist) is not.

I believe we are all racist, again, given the definition of racism. It's part of our makeup, and part of our evolution. Racism, tribal differences, turning small insignificant physical differences into huge barriers between people is seen in virtually every human culture in history.

Finally, LadyGreenEyes ... I am not surprised at all that you would be honored by a comparison to Mr. Trump.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You didn't get the memo on the secret hand shake?? 😀

See every race thinks other races have an advantage even whites. You'll hear them claim that blacks are hired before them etc. Its classic case of using excuses because you failed to accomplish somerhkng. Racism is nothing more then an excuse as to why your not successful. Because one simple fact remains even if you actually do run into a racist you find another way. This is why people are successful any stumbling blocks are overcome doesn't matter what black Asian etc.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

The professor has a right to express himself as he chooses.

Sure, he does, and he has a right to face the consequences. If white college staff can be pressured to resign for things others did, then he should be pressured to resign for that he himself did.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I disagree with his article, and with his general position that "all White people are racist" because it's one-sided.

I disagree because of that, and because I don't believe he's right.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I believe that we are all racist to some degree (i.e. we notice racial differences and allow those differences to affect our behavior). I believe the degree to which we control the effects of that internal racism denote the quality of our character.

I don't think every person notices differences based on race. Other than, of course, actual physical descriptions. I tend to notice how a person acts, and I do note cultural differences, but those are not always based on race. Some can be, and others can be based on any number of other things. Even noticing differences, I wouldn't call a case of being racist. I'd call it simple observation. Racism is thinking less of someone because of their race. It isn't noting the differences we might have. I do not believe that everyone alive looks down on someone of another race. Some do, of course, but not all. This guy wants to pretend that how we live our lives, who we know, and so forth, don't matter, because we "must be racist" simply for being white. It's simply not true.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
He is an educator whether we like what he teaches or not. Just because we disagree with it, doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to teach it. We do not control university curriculum (nor should we).

The universities do have the right to decide if they want a racist teaching at their institutions, and I stand by my statement that any worth attending would fire someone like that. We cannot properly deal with racism if we don't stand against it.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
He's not causing any harm by his rhetoric, in fact, he's generating conversation on the issues.

So, when some students of his decide that their white neighbors are racists, and don't deserve what they have, and rob them, because they were taught what he's pushing, that's no harm? People do act on what they learn. Plus, what he is saying is hurtful to a lot of people. The BLM claims anyone not liking them isn't allowed, but this guy can condemn an entire race, and that's supposed to be acceptable? I don't deal well with double standards. He's doing the very thing he accuses whites of doing.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
His letter does call out racism; it does encourage us to look for it in ourselves and be aware of it's impact. That is a good thing. His unilateral approach to the issue (only Whites are racist) is not.

No, it isn't. He didn't address the rampant racism seen directed at whites at all, or at Asians. All he did was label one group as racists, and claim that nothing they actually did mattered; they were condemned for their skin color. His unilateral approach negates anything positive he might have intended. At least there, we agree.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I believe we are all racist, again, given the definition of racism. It's part of our makeup, and part of our evolution. Racism, tribal differences, turning small insignificant physical differences into huge barriers between people is seen in virtually every human culture in history.

Which definition? Seeing differences is one thing, while condemning people for them is quite another. Sure, people tend to band together in groups, but that doesn't make all people racist. If you or I decide to hang out with people with whom we agree on things, that doesn't necessarily mean that we believe we are better than people who think differently. It simply means we choose who we like.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Finally, LadyGreenEyes ... I am not surprised at all that you would be honored by a comparison to Mr. Trump.

He speaks his mind. That is one way in which we are definitely similar. I like that about the guy. I don't like everything about him, and he isn't my first pick, but I like enough that I could vote for him. That he isn't a politician, and is not beholden to anyone, is his biggest strength.

Now, this was better - we can disagree and be nice to one another! Much preferred. Apologies for any rudeness on my part, and appreciate the change from you.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You didn't get the memo on the secret hand shake?? 😀

See every race thinks other races have an advantage even whites. You'll hear them claim that blacks are hired before them etc. Its classic case of using excuses because you failed to accomplish something. Racism is nothing more then an excuse as to why your not successful. Because one simple fact remains even if you actually do run into a racist you find another way. This is why people are successful any stumbling blocks are overcome doesn't matter what black Asian etc.

I quite agree, to a point. People are limited by some things, such as finances. When someone assumes that is limited to certain races, I get annoyed. I have never been handed anything for my skin color. Bought all my own cars, no college money, etc. No one hired me over someone else because I was white, or heck, even female. If all could just do what they need to do, and not loo who they could blame, we'd all get along better! Resentment isn't helpful. There is a reason God says it's a sin.

Sometimes, though, racism is more than that. Resentment and distrust can and do lead to violence, and that's never a good thing, for anyone involved.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You didn't get the memo on the secret hand shake?? 😀

See every race thinks other races have an advantage even whites. You'll hear them claim that blacks are hired before them etc. Its classic case of using excuses because you failed to accomplish somerhkng. Racism is nothing more then an excuse as to why your not successful. Because one simple fact remains even if you actually do run into a racist you find another way. This is why people are successful any stumbling blocks are overcome doesn't matter what black Asian etc.

Glad to agree with you here. That's a large component of what I say when I make the claim that we're all racist.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Sure ... perhaps you should start a movement calling for his removal based on the fact that you don't agree with his politics and because you think he's a racist ... you know, like the students did that you're so irritated by.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs. Mine are different. Racism is an intrinsic factor that is observable in virtually every culture that has ever existed. Racism/tribalism/classism ... all are functions of primate xenophobia, and are a part of our genetic and evolutionary heritage.

I agree with you that it is not true that only Whites are racist. I agree that many of us have developed to the point that we are aware of our own racism and act internally to counter it before it effects our behavior toward others ...

... but everyone is racist. I imagine that my acceptance of that fact takes the sting out of being called racist merely for being White ... and it doesn't for you because you don't feel like you're racist in any way.

I'm amazed (and this is a general statement) at how often American conservatives damn others for being PC (being offended by the words that people use to describe things) until they encounter words that they don't like ... and then, boyo, heads need to roll, walls need to be built, etc. etc.

If ever anyone wanted proof that racism is still a real issue they only need to read through this thread.

However, I totally reject the notion that all whites are racist and also reject the claim in this thread that everyone is racist.

Part of the problem, in my view, is that racism is becoming less of the stigma it should be because it is being used so universally to describe behaviour. Racism should be a serious accusation, not something used so easily as it is today. This trend is very dangerous I believe. I have already witnessed people disengage from the fight against racism because they are fed up with the 'one plus one equals four' accusations constantly thrown around. I sometimes wonder just how far away we really are from a 'burn the witch!' society.

Generalising and claiming an entire group based on skin colour are racist is not only racist itself, but makes it harder to identify the real racists that do exist and harder to solve this problem in society.

The cynical side of me thinks this cultural trend is not an accident. It seems a long time since we have been as divided as human beings as we are right now.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

... but everyone is racist. I imagine that my acceptance of that fact takes the sting out of being called racist merely for being White ... and it doesn't for you because you don't feel like you're racist in any way.

I disagree that everyone is racist, some are just plain uncomfortable and uncertain how to handle things because people insist on seeing things in terms of race. For example, race is a big deal to many people of black complexion, race, however means nothing to me, I believe in the science which says race is a BS concept, but knowing race means something to them forces me to have to deal with their "race" because they, not I, insist they are different.

I'm not racist, I'm "race" uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable with the very concept of race. I'm forced to deal with a world where something I don't believe in is given more credence than it should. I'm forced to try and piece together what race means to every individual I encounter, and forced to acknowledge that while I don't believe in race, many do, and see me by my race.

I get that racism exists, but I have no ability to deal with it. The best I can do is speak up when I realize someone is insisting on judging people by race rather than by the actions of the individual. Which I do whenever such comes from any human. Yet, oddly enough, fighting against the race concept seems to be only allowed against those of white complexion. If one calls someone else out, they just don't get it, and are racist themselves. Well if I can't fight racism in all it's forms, then I can't fight racism. The only way I can think of for racism to ever not exist is for people to combat the very concept of it, which is reasonable as race is scientifically bunk to begin with.

But to here this guy speak, I'm racist merely because I'm white skinned and live in the united states where someone who's not me is racist and I may benefit for it, usually without even realizing it. That's not me being racist, that's bull#, that's whoever provided the benefit to me without my being aware of it that's racist.

I don't have magic powers, I'm not a mind reader. I have no way of knowing when I benefit due to race rather than merit. If I think I am, I'd say something... actually I have before. Not just about race though. I've gotten in trouble many times, and I've refused benefits when I knew someone else was more deserving or being treated wrongly many times. I don't like seeing others mistreated. One day I'll be in the wrong place for this kind of behavior and it will get me killed. Fortunately I'm a shut in or I'd be dead already.

Then there's the other problem, if we make a big deal about even the slightest perceived racism to the point where everyone is racist, even for things outside their control, including reasons for which are the actions of others and not themselves, then calling someone a racist becomes a meaningless act. If calling someone a racist isn't reserved for meaningful malicious acts, but instead, is used for the most minute and minuscule of acts, purposeful or from others, even to the point of merely existing, then the word has been watered down to the point of irrelevance.

As said in the Incredibles, "Once everyone is super, no one will be." Well that's where we are with racism if we don't reserve it for truly malicious and prejudiced acts. If everyone is racist no matter what they do or who they are, there's no point calling anyone racist, is the equivalence of calling water, wet.

If someone is trying to help, if someone is actively not trying to treat others differently because of race or if they simply don't get why they should treat someone differently cause of race (yes we do exist, I have the same problem with elders and bosses too though, so eh I'm status blind), if someone tries to stand up to defend someone when someone is being malicious towards them because of the made of concept which is race. There's no good reason to call them racist. It serves no purpose what so ever other than to create a stronger divide with people who are already trying their best. Telling people no matter what the do it will never be enough helps no one, and certainly helps no ones cause. Nor does engaging in, and insisting on the same concept which creates the problem in the first place.

I'm considered to be "white" but in my mind I'm just human. A black skinned individual may consider themselves "black" but to me they're just human. The only thing that would make us different is their insistence that we are different not mine. I understand there's racism out there, but I will never agree that feeding it by wearing it like a badge is the way to combat it. I fight the very concept of race, meanwhile many who suffer most by the concepts existence embrace it and give it strength. I can do nothing to help those who feed the beast. Best I can do is fight racism the only way I know how, and that's by fighting the concept itself.

What is more dangerous than pretending that we are above those more negative traits, like racism, that we all share?

Not much, if anything ... the reality is that people across the world were allowed to enact, uninhibited for many years, our innate racism and the corresponding racist beliefs. Racism was just accepted, more or less, as the way things were.

Witness almost anything written in the early 20th century regarding the victims of colonization. Witness some of the things our own Founders and later respected leaders wrote and enacted! We cringe a bit now to read the words of a Jefferson or a Teddy Roosevelt when they cross the line of our modern racial sensitivities, but how quickly do we follow it up with "but for them, in those times, that was just normal ... "

Indeed.

No one should mistake my contention that we are all, to some degree, racist, as an excuse or worse, a glorification or allowance for the rabid and rampant racism we see today. I am very careful to say each time I make the statement, that it is incumbent upon us to rise above that innate tendency, and more exactly, to recognize it for what it is, understand that while stereotypes may exist for a reason, a person's race (or religion, lack of religion, ethnicity, sex, sexual orientation, gender or gender identity ... or any other individual characteristic of difference) does not give us or anyone any right to treat them differently, legislate against them differently, that all Americans have the same legal and civil rights, privileges of citizenship, etc.

The greatest danger as I see it is that there are so many who have adopted the idea that they are not racist, that racism does not exist, as a plank in their political platforms, that when someone points it out to them, racist acts and beliefs that are quite clear and obvious to an observer, they deny it to such a great extent that they want to, in whatever metaphorical way, kill the messenger that brought that missive to them.

Dr. Yancy is embedded in modern academic "virtual reality" ... and he is wrong to imply that any member of a minority group or class cannot be racist, can not be prejudicial, etc., for the same dangerous reason above ... our modern realization that enacted racism is WRONG and EVIL and the followup ... that no good person is racist ... no, no ... that's only those other bad people whom I am nothing like ... and for Dr. Yancy, in his article/letter, those other bad people are White Americans.

He's caught up in the very paradox I'm trying so hard to point to here. He can't accept his own racism, or the racism of his own people, and by jumping through so many logical, intellectual and academic hoops to prove to himself that he isn't racist (while accepting that he might just be sexist which is another innate characteristic) he ends up completely burying his message for most people, because they react (as so many have here) quite reasonably in their own defense, as it were.

I think a lot of us HAVE learned to counteract our own internal racism to a large extent. Maybe some of us have excised it completely from our character. Any general statement taken too far becomes an absolute, and every absolute is errant, absolutely, ... I do know this for certain though.

We don't end racism by denying racism. We end it by seeing it, understanding it, and intentionally as an act of will keeping it from affecting us in our lives both individually and collectively as much as possible.

a reply to: Gryphon66

There are lots of reasons for people actions even along "racial" lines that have nothing to do with being "racist" themselves.

Honestly, unless you as a person believe in race, and that race makes another inferior, you're technically not racist.

Remember race is a made up concept, one a lot of people believe in and insist on. A person who is themselves not racist, still has to exist in such a world where race the concept exists and affects their surroundings and interactions with others.

Existing in a racist culture to the best of ones ability and trying to best figure out how to balance your belief in the nonexistence of race with the fact that people on all sides believe in race, is not being racist.

People need to stop insisting that everyone is racist. We're not all racist, but we all do live in a culture where the concept of race exists. Believe me, it's really hard dealing with a racist world when you are not.

Existing in a racist world and trying to blend in when necessary does not make a person racist anymore than a sniper wearing camouflage is actually a bush.

Same as being uncomfortable because you know some people place blame on you for things outside your control, and you have no idea which people place that blame, does not make you a racist either. The only reason I recognize that that blame often comes from people who are black skinned is because people of black skin keep on telling me so. That's not me being racist, that's them. My being nervous is simply conditioned self preservation not racism. I don't like race, I don't think it exists, but that won't stop someone who does from harming me for their beliefs.

That said, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt (usually), regardless of when I feel uncomfortable. Everyone starts on positive ground with me. You're a decent person and a friend until you prove otherwise and I give many chances, and even the worst people, who've hurt me beyond measure over and over again, have been allowed back in when I believed they changed for the better... I've been wrong before in doing so sadly, but doing so has also resulted in some amazing friendships.

So my nervousness is not that a person is black, but that racism exists, and I have no idea who believes what racially. Actually you know what, I get the exact same nervousness when around people of white skin that demonstrate racism, it literally feels exactly the same, the same uncomfortable out of place I don't fit in here gut feeling I have when people of black skin start talking about "race" in racist rather than descriptive ways. Especially when I'm in a situation where I know speaking up will get me hurt. I've learned the hard way that speaking up to the wrong people in the wrong situations gets you hurt. I'm a bit more careful with my battles, especially as being transgender I'm a minority in my own right.

a reply to: Puppylove

So, in what you just stated, you acknowledged that people act according to "racial" motivations just not "racist" ones.

Frankly, that's a semantic difference if not merely a matter of degree, but your opinion is yours to have.

Your entire thesis in your post is that "race" doesn't exist ... coming from some purely biological definition?

I understand that this is your position, or your understanding, but that doesn't reflect consensus reality.

Race exists conceptually, objectively, historically, politically and economically. Race is encoded in our laws.

I can appreciate your sense of equanimity, and even admire it ... and wish more people believed in your philosophy as stated.

But ... race exists. Racism exists. Denying that fact, to me, is one of the greatest dangers.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Racism exists, race does not, the concept of it does, period, one can recognize that without believing in the concept itself.

Think of it like atheism. You can know about God to your hearts content, but not believe in God. If you're atheist God is a concept, that people fight and die for that concept makes it no more true than if they didn't.

If I say, met someone at a restaurant and they were my server, and we talked in a friendly harmless manner, and their paranoid lover saw us and decided I was having some kind of relationship, and in a fit of misplaced rage decided to kill me, that belief on his/her part does not make it true that I was in any kind of relationship with his lover.

Everyone on the planet can believe something and still be wrong. There was a time we were the center of the galaxy, there was a time when... do I really need to give easily found examples?

Point is I can recognize that people believe in something and recognize that belief without believing in it myself. Intent makes a difference, and that's something too many people refuse to acknowledge.

To be racist you need to be racist, and that's involves intent.

Racism
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

1 = Belief, therefor by definition one, one has to BELIEVE in racial superiority.
2 = Is talking about the government not the people that exist in government. Just because you exist in a government does not mean you support everything the government does, and does not make the governments actions your own. If my brother kills someone and the only thing connecting me to the murder is our blood relation, I don't go to jail and for good reason.
3 = Requires hating or being intolerant towards someone based on the concept of race. These are strong words, not flimsy little things that people call racism these days.

People scream racism for bull# reason all the time. Racism exists, that does not make everyone racist, nor does it make race real either. Racism is a belief system, belief systems require no basis in scientific fact or reality. Is why belief can be so damn dangerous. People kill over faulty belief systems all the damn time.

I'm sorry that I refuse to support a faulty, dangerous and dehumanizing belief system but I do. Race is a BS concept and everyone who chooses to believe in it and refuses to let go of the concept is part of the problem that perpetuates it. The belief in race needs to be torn down, ripped apart and turned into confetti.

If a person does not believe in the racist philosophy of race, that "race" makes us inherently different, then a person is not racist, because they choose to abstain from agreeing with the propaganda that is the "race" divide.

I can exist in, and go to church and not be Christian, I can exist in the US and not be racist. Is easy all it takes is living there and refusing to accept the cool aid they offer.

The problem is, everyone insists that just because a person attends a church for example (I did because the person I was married to did) that it must mean I'm christian.

I'm sorry but I disagree with the concept that most people are racist. Existing in a place were racism exists does not default people to being racist. Being racist requires an active part on the part a person.

Any person who does not believe in racial superiority, any person who does not agree with racist policies and would vote against them if given the knowledge of such and being put in a position to do so, any person who harbors no HATE nor INTOLERANCE to another based on race is not racist. As I don't think most people fall into this definition, I'd say most people aren't racist, as opposed to the bull crap watered down version of racism where everyone is considered to be racist.

a reply to: Puppylove

Bravo for your personal stance that looks beyond surface illusions to attempt to base your reality on the reasonable solid facts such as they exist.

However, in just about any context in the modern world we live in, at this time, the comment that RACE doesn't exist is merely semantic.

I can appreciate your efforts to prove your point using the dictionary and logic. However ... as you can see, too often, we have to pick a definition to stand behind ... and when we do that too strongly, we obliterate meaning. Very few of our words are actually totally contained within the "dictionary" definition.

To be racist (that is to be enacting racism at whatever level) is, according to Merriam Webster Online, for example:

Full Definition of racism
1
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2
: racial prejudice or discrimination

You can also consult (as I know you probably have) dictionary.com, and the rest ... trying to find the most fulsome definition to fit your own personal belief and contention that "race" doesn't exist. Yet .. what are you doing in the very act of "looking it up" ... you're finding various cultural consensuses that point to the fact that race, racism, racists all exist.

You seem to want to contradict my general statement by 1) arguing from your own personal belief and 2) using the strongest possible "definition" of what racist/racism may mean and 3) arguing that because an individual doesn't act from or believe in race, that is somehow meaningful at the cultural level (which is really what I'm pointing to.)

These are fine things to do ... but you're essentially only arguing that your opinion is better than mine.

My opinion, such as it is, acknowledges that humans do and always have (at the cultural societal level) perceived differences between their cultural groups and others based soley on physical appearances (skin tone, hair color, eye color, height, distinctive facial structures), and that these differences have, again, over the scope of human history, been played out many times to the detriment of one group or another ... based SOLEY on this reality of "race."

I'm not sure what else there is to say or why I would say it. Bravo, again, in your attempt to annihilate the concept of race and the concomitant racial differences, racism, racist politics and economics, etc.

... but race still exists, we humans are aware that it exists, and try as we might, the perceptions of racial differences (racism) do have an important place both culturally and individually.

Best, thanks for a very rewarding level of conversation!

a reply to: Gryphon66


Actually RACE was settled in the 60s but the government uses it so much they havent changed it yet. Scientifically speaking there is ONE RACE on this planet. You are confusing ETHNICITY. AS ALOT OF SHEEPLE DO AS WELL. Its time for SCIENTIST to ACTUALLY USE THEIR POWERS FOR GOOD AND FINALLY LAY THIS CRAP TO REST.

a reply to: yuppa

Scientifically speaking there is ONE RACE

That would depend on which branch of science you are talking about.
biology makes no distinction. Sociology does.

So race can be a scientific term, as can ethnicity. But they do not mean the same thing.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Race the concept exists and has real consequences. That it does and keeps doing so is no reason to accept it, excuse it, and not rail against the concept.

Knowing people keep choosing to discriminate based on physical features and have been throughout history is no reason to not rail against the concept. Once again, race does not exist, the belief in it does, I'm under no delusion that I can eradicate the belief in race, but I can damn certain fight that which helps that belief take hold and pretend to have any form of legitimacy.

Ultimately I think we're on the same page, it just seems to me, and this is my personal opinion mind you, that I am choosing to fight racism by focusing more on the root of the problem and less by focusing on the symptoms.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: yuppa

Scientifically speaking there is ONE RACE

That would depend on which branch of science you are talking about.
biology makes no distinction. Sociology does.

So race can be a scientific term, as can ethnicity. But they do not mean the same thing.

But in th econtext when discussing racism it is literally just one race on the planet. I remember they did a study and concluded "racism" is a man made consstruct and that humans are th eonly race on th eplanet with just minor differences inside or attributes.

a reply to: yuppa

But in th econtext when discussing racism it is literally just one race on the planet.

In the context, which is a social context, there are many races. And the gradations vary. Westerners tend to see Asians as a single "race." Asians tend to break that down further.

I remember they did a study and concluded "racism" is a man made consstruct and that humans are th eonly race on th eplanet with just minor differences inside or attributes.

Yes, biologically there are very few differences. That does not have much bearing on the realities of sociology.