Capitalism is not the only American way.

a reply to: deadlyhope

capitalism isnt in any of te language the US was founded on... but the language of opportunity and the freedom the language has written in it is what gave rise to capitalism and large industral endeavors. while at one time that helped the country grow and aid people, over time it as grown in behest and a deteriment to people... to where opportunity and freedom has a price. cant afford the price that capitalism has placed on opportunity after it has gained control? then you are left with little if any opportunity... this has led the masses to compete in order to survive and get ahead. cant compete then youre less worthy of a huma being to exist in the capitalist construct of eat or be eaten. by limiting opportunity we lose freedom to pursue happiness... so controlling what people believe will make them happy, gives those in corporate power more control by the status quo that the system creates. if the majority of people are materialstic from this control of what brings happiness then capitalist control keeps ahead full steam.

as we age we can see happiness is not found in the made up plastic new and shiny weve been spoon fed it is since birth. we see relationships of family and friends and that actual experience makes happiness that lasts. if being selfish in a horde of objects made people happy then greed would be lauded as the best virtue ever. that isnt the case and people are now majorly aware of this... that the people of humanity is where the true value of life lay and does not need to be overly complicated or filled with the sensless drama, that the chaos and greed for more and bigger and shiner brings. to some a lamborghini is luxury, to others just having a car is luxury, especially when it is all based on perception and form and not function... as any car that runs properly will go to point A to B if you press down on that little rectangle.

so capitalism becomes an excuse to laugh at those not driving this, not wearing that, and generally judging anyone not part of te crazy machine that keeps that discrimination going that destroys other cultures and thought in wars to gather yet more empty resources we dont currently need to use for such frivilous things that fil egos but not bellies. the justiication? people need to work... and if they arent producing a bunch of essentially useless crap what else will they be doing other tan supporting an unsustainable system like ourselves? it unfortunately becomes a catch 22 capitaism at such a level can only lead to george orwells worst fears. where those with that power and opportunity eventually sift out at the top and theres no way left except by birth or sheer luck to make a leap from the bottom where we all will eventually be under a corporate dictatorship with no value beyond a chunk cachunk pulling a handle as a cog in the machine. the short side of that is of course when everyone is a cog what demographic exists to market and sell all this crap too?

of course at that point money and resources and even the amount of people become moot because all the power appears gone to the controllers and they will be only interested in what pleases their wants regardless of any needs. its what built the pyramids in eygpt its what built the collesuem in rome and its why only parts of these civilizations still exist... so calling them great is debatable as if they were great for all the people involved? theyd likely still exist. instead we keep getting those vying for power and control of the masses that want to build such civilizations ignoring te very people it takes to build them. this is why humanity has failed at government over and over again. civilization is meant to be about people as its central focus on every level of society to help each other as one to make things easier for everyone... not a select few with opportunity to rig the game in their favor once there is enough power and influence to do so.

instead of the maxum of absolute power corrupting absolutely, it could be with great power comes greater responsibility. only in socialism will the latter be found, in capitalism the only previous... its pretty easy to take a quick look around to see the corruption capitalism has done to society... the point of which when it was an aid building industry and infrastructure is long past. except in the countries completely war torn from the captial gains their resources provide that keeps the current status quo fat and sassy.

Capitalism involves corporatism, cronyism, socialism, and war.

Corporatism takes place as capitalist economies become more complex, leading to the formation of groups related to corporations and industries.

Cronyism is inevitable, as more money is accumulated by a few that eventually take over, with government working for it and a growing middle class dependent on credit to purchase more goods and services.

Socialism takes place as the same businesses and governments are dependent on the growing welfare of the population, in turn leading to increased sales, tax revenues, etc.

And war is the origin of modern capitalism, as private property (i.e., ownership and control of land) involved enclosures, and increased complexity requires legal systems, enforcement by the police and military, etc.

a reply to: glend
On these points we can agree fully. I also blame the education system combined with media for the general malaise of the populous. That's why getting the mess straightened out is hard work. The majority of the general public must be smacked in the face with scandal headlines or smacked in the wallet by some governmental scheme before they sit up and pay attention to what is going on.

I never found capitalism a drag on my ability to better myself. I always negotiated my pay. My private employers always rewarded me for my efforts over and above what they had promised in the form of bonuses and perks.
I had the freedom to make bad decisions and I made my share---and probably some extras as well. But I also had the freedom to work hard at more than one job and pay for those mistakes, learning some valuable skills and lessons along the way.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I wish you well.
The USA does not have true capitalism, you have corporate controlled reps/senators, endless fiat money creation by the state, Bail out of "too big to fail corporations/banks"

You currently have a Fascist Oligarchy running your country

www.google.com.au...

Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights. Politically, it is the system of laissez-faire (freedom). Legally it is a system of objective laws (rule of law as opposed to rule of man). Economically, when such freedom is applied to the sphere of production its result is the free-market.

Maybe some hope in trying out the Swiss model of government

en.wikipedia.org...

Direct democracy As on the federal level, all cantons provide for some forms of direct democracy. Citizens may demand a popular vote to amend the cantonal constitution or laws, or to veto laws or spending bills passed by the parliament. General popular assemblies (Landsgemeinde) are now limited to the cantons of Appenzell Innerrhoden and Glarus. In all other cantons democratic rights are exercised by secret ballot.

a reply to: Metallicus

America is a place to be different and a place for misfits. I don't want to conform to what other parts of the world do and I certainly wouldn't want us to model our Government based on Socialism

But "social" welfare was taken to another whole level in the USA. But you do conform to an education system dictated by an Industrialist who wanted to train students to be the next generation of robots for his factories.

How is your nation qualitatively different than Europe in providing a rich dynamic culture or the arts or sciences. Have you ever travelled to Europe?


www.wakingtimes.com...

“In our dreams, people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present education conventions of intellectual and character education fade from their minds and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into men of learning or philosophers, or men of science. We have not to raise up from them authors, educators, poets or men of letters, great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, statesmen, politicians, creatures of whom we have ample supply. The task is simple. We will organize children and teach them in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way. ~ First mission statement of the J.D. Rockefeller-endowed General Education Board in 1906

The way I see it, since the 60s, The US has moved from capitalist to corporatist.
It seemed, bac in the day, people worked hard, got a fair wage and contributed to the economy by getting a new car, or telly or some "consmer" things. The companies they worked for made a profit bu marking up their labour, but only a bit, since there was an idea that there was a fairness in the arrangement.

These days, more and more people are on a subsistence wage and are unable to contribute beyond their most basic needs and the corporations get rich off the bigger markup in what these people's labor earns.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I think you are the one who is deluded and never travelled outside his home state let alone the rest of the world.

So why is it so many companies form alliances and push State governments around the world to privatize essential services like water and power utilities. They promise to give "x dollars" to the State to help them with their deficit. They never offer any true value for the billions of $ worth of infrastructure and piping that the taxpayer paid for.

The new Utility in private hands now has an endless stream of customers and a revenue stream. The task of maintaining the ageing infrastructure usually falls back on the Government. The Privatizers usually increase charges over and above the CPI or inflation %.

What does the "capitalism" cronyism that usually hold the same board of directors ever give back in the name of social programmes or investment in Universities or public health.

I noticed the cry on ATS when the Obama new health premiums were implemented, some people paying as much as $800 per month more. Whilst Australias and britains national free healthcare has room for improvement at least our people arent out on the streets.

BTW we were in the USA in 6 states 2 months ago and saw it with our own eyes - the divide between the poor and the super rich. The Ads on TV pushing drugs and clinics to "normalize" your burnt out people spoke for themselves. The huge portions of food in restaurants whilst minimum wage is paid, and workers needing tips to survive.

Go the Repubic /sarcasm?
Capitalism at its finest.

a reply to: intrptr

Lets get the terms correct, niether system is what it is proported to be. A more correct terms would be corporatism vs social structulism. Both are designated pyramid social systems with a clear majority of people on the bottom of the social structure and one person or entity at the very top of the system. In Amerika the top of the pyramid is not the president as most of the ill formed think but the illuminatis chosen one. next comes the international bankers such as rockafellars and rothchilds etc To understand this just look at any corporate structure with the ceo being in charge and the cfo (chief financial officer) being second in charge

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: nwtrucker

I think you are the one who is deluded and never travelled outside his home state let alone the rest of the world.

So why is it so many companies form alliances and push State governments around the world to privatize essential services like water and power utilities. They promise to give "x dollars" to the State to help them with their deficit. They never offer any true value for the billions of $ worth of infrastructure and piping that the taxpayer paid for.

The new Utility in private hands now has an endless stream of customers and a revenue stream. The task of maintaining the ageing infrastructure usually falls back on the Government. The Privatizers usually increase charges over and above the CPI or inflation %.

What does the "capitalism" cronyism that usually hold the same board of directors ever give back in the name of social programmes or investment in Universities or public health.

I noticed the cry on ATS when the Obama new health premiums were implemented, some people paying as much as $800 per month more. Whilst Australias and britains national free healthcare has room for improvement at least our people arent out on the streets.

BTW we were in the USA in 6 states 2 months ago and saw it with our own eyes - the divide between the poor and the super rich. The Ads on TV pushing drugs and clinics to "normalize" your burnt out people spoke for themselves. The huge portions of food in restaurants whilst minimum wage is paid, and workers needing tips to survive.

Go the Repubic /sarcasm?
Capitalism at its finest.

You are obviously young and new to ATS.

First, I'm 65 and have decades in the trucking industry. I've been to all 50 states trucked in 49 of them 7 Provinces and 1 territory. (As well as Mexico.)

I could care less about the 'rest of the world' which includes down under. If you had any idea what your talking about, you'd know the Capitalists are the ones funding the left wing agenda.

The merger of Corporations and gov'ts via the WTO, NAFTA and the TPP. All at your and my expense.

The gap in wages is directly due to the above. You want to fix wage gaps? The solution is get rid of the underpaid labor in China, India and the unbelievably cheap labor pool that those Corporations take advantage of in third world nations. That will allow developed wages to go up.

While mad dogs like Nestle take control of the world's water supply, Gov'ts are doing the same thing. In my State, Washington, the State gov't is slowly taking all water rights away from property owners. Apply for a building permit, sell your property and you will lose any and all water rights on that land.

Infrastructure issues? All levels of gov't receive more than sufficient tax revenues from highway use and gas/diesel taxes to take care of the infrastructure. They spend it elsewhere, usually where it will garner the most votes. It is a political issue and directly the result of 'gov't'.

Talking about waitress wages is idiocy. Raise the wages you cut the jobs, always. Don't like the wages? Get a higher paying job.

Glad you went home. Stay there. Your a brainwashed, probably spoiled and haven't even experienced a callous in your life. Your idiot social programs are paid by us. The ones that work. There's your wage gap.

a reply to: greencmp

It is a product of purposive action on the part of governments.

Governments dont act in a vacuum; they are beholden to special interest groups; the priveleged class, the monopolists, granting special concessions subsidies, patents, rights to protect the interest of the status quo.


From your very own Mises.org...
mises.org...

Not all economists were fooled by the "natural-monopoly" theory advocated by utility industry monopolists and their paid economic advisers. In 1940 economist Horace M. Gray, an assistant dean of the graduate school at the University of Illinois, surveyed the history of "the public utility concept," including the theory of "natural" monopoly. "During the 19th century," Gray observed, it was widely believed that "the public interest would be best promoted by grants of special privilege to private persons and to corporations" in many industries.[24] This included patents, subsidies, tariffs, land grants to the railroads, and monopoly franchises for "public" utilities. "The final result was monopoly, exploitation, and political corruption."[25] With regard to "public" utilities, Gray records that "between 1907 and 1938, the policy of state-created, state-protected monopoly became firmly established over a significant portion of the economy and became the keystone of modern public utility regulation."[26] From that time on, "the public utility status was to be the haven of refuge for all aspiring monopolists who found it too difficult, too costly, or too precarious to secure and maintain monopoly by private action alone.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

The only problem with following anyone else's model is we are not them. We have over three hundred million people, we have one of the biggest economies in the world, we live by different rules in some aspects.. I'm not sure emulating the Swiss would work, though I've advocated for it, realizing our current system is totally messed up.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

I've always imagined a combination of different ideas would work, putting emphasis on having a nation lead by the people... My seasonal benefits account is currently linked to my Facebook, and the government doesn't even talk to me to know how much I made or anything, it's all electronic. If such networking exists, why can't we use said technology to create a political model that more directly represents the masses? Not exactly Facebook accounts voting, but some type of .gov account.

a reply to: deadlyhope

That is not exactly the best idea though. The will of the people is very fickle. Some things need long-term commitment in order to have a chance of working, but not many people in our society today are willing to have that kind of patience.

Not to mention, not many people have a real understanding of what something would mean for them, short or long-term. How many people were able to look at and parse the realities of Obamacare as opposed to those who simply bought the promises made, for example?

How many people think that socialized health care simply means "free" health care without understanding all the underlying realities of such a system: the extra taxes, the bureaucratizing, the lack of choice, the rationing, etc.

a reply to: ketsuko

I very much encourage politics being taught in school, regardless of the system. I think it would help in any case.

a reply to: glend

Do you have a link for those stats?

Fascinating info. Thanks for sharing it.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Everything in context. We have one of the most prosperous nations in the world, we have millionaires and private jets and blue and white collar jobs, but that's not the entire image. Such a nation should not have hundreds of thousands if not more homeless people, including children. Especially when Utah has found a financially responsible say to give them shelter.

Parents should not have to work a combined hundred hours a week just to get by.

The average person shouldn't have to pay their life savings away for drugs that simply hide symptoms and create worse problems.

We have some amazing things in this nation, but it doesn't show in the life of every person as it should. Equality should be the result of such greatness, it shouldn't be forced or legislated, it should just be a natural occurrence if we are the top of the world.

But when you have major corporations moving across seas to use child labor to sell goods at a cheaper cost, when you have insurance and drug companies writing legislation instead of the people, when you have the top dew percent making as much as the rest, at the expense of the rest.. Something is wrong.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: deadlyhope

That is not exactly the best idea though. The will of the people is very fickle. Some things need long-term commitment in order to have a chance of working, but not many people in our society today are willing to have that kind of patience.

Not to mention, not many people have a real understanding of what something would mean for them, short or long-term. How many people were able to look at and parse the realities of Obamacare as opposed to those who simply bought the promises made, for example?

How many people think that socialized health care simply means "free" health care without understanding all the underlying realities of such a system: the extra taxes, the bureaucratizing, the lack of choice, the rationing, etc.

That's why fundamental reforms in the way the schools teach our children must be enacted, sooner rather than later. First and foremost politics should be worked into schooling from a young age as to allow students to fully understand and assimilate the information into their everyday lives. Another class that should be added is Finances, or how to manage your money for the long term. I know when I was in school they taught us how to write cheques, how to count change, etc. but never did they think to teach us how to be financially responsible with our money. I'm sure there are more classes that are needed but those are the two big ones that would help out the most in my opinion anyway.

How do you give someone the power to regulate everything without giving them unlimited power?

a reply to: deadlyhope

So there are no patents in socialist countries? Haha, they are even in communist countries and dictatorships. The problems you mention you have with capitalism are not from the capitalism, they are from the government. Patents, FDA, etc. if it were socialist government, the list of problems would be much longer, and still nothing to do with the capitalism.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Giving ALL the power to ALL 300 million people is not the same as giving all the power to the three branches of the government like we currently do.