'Reliance Defence, Russia's USC to build four frigates for Indian Navy'

Source: 'Reliance Defence, Russia's USC to build four frigates for Indian Navy' Snippet:

New Delhi: A proposal for Reliance Defence and Russsia's United Shipbuilding Company (USC) to build four Talwar class frigates for the Indian Navy is on the agenda for summit meeting in Moscow on Thursday between Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin, sources said. The frontline warships will be built for around Rs 30,000 crore (around $5 billion) at the shipyard at Pipavav in Gujarat that Reliance Defence recently acquired. Under this agreement, a major warship will be built for the first time at an Indian private sector shipyard.

With this deal the Russians transfer some cold war era decades old ship building technology to India. India gets some jobs and some new boats of an old design. The US builds Arleigh Burke class of guided missile destroyers in the price range of the ships in this deal.

I think the Indian government with something like 35 Russian built ships in service will mainly get an outdated technology transfer and some older designs out of this effort. They will likely see a cost cut from this deal in that they can now make spare parts for their existing Russian built warships. Russia with this deal is outsourcing the Soviet era Russian ship refit industry to India.

a reply to: machineintelligence

Seeing the only thing the Russian navy can do well is sink, does India just want want to kill it sailors?

a reply to: crazyewok

What? While the Western Paradigm spends its reserves in endless low level conflict, the other BRIC of allies is steadily building theirs.

Guess who's going to out last the other?

a reply to: crazyewok

Seeing the only thing the Russian navy can do well is sink, does India just want want to kill it sailors?

I hope India has time as the Russian defense industry has a problem with getting things done on time.

However, the Russian defense industry has been preformed poorly meeting deadlines in the last several years and the timelines set out by USC will be likely be difficult to meet, Eric Wertheim author of U.S. Naval Institute’s Combat Fleets of the World told USNI News on Tuesday.

“I don’t think anything about the Russian defense industry has been timely, he said.
“That’s the reason they looked to France for amphibious assault ships and why the aircraft carrier they made for India was so late.”

news.usni.org...

And thanks to their foray into Ukraine they no longer have someone to build their ships engines, so they have to look at a jet engine manufacturer for that...and who knows how that will go.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: crazyewok

What? While the Western Paradigm spends its reserves in endless low level conflict, the other BRIC of allies is steadily building theirs.

Guess who's going to out last the other?

I will fear the Russian Navy when they can go a year without one of its ships randomly sinking

originally posted by: machineintelligence
Source: 'Reliance Defence, Russia's USC to build four frigates for Indian Navy' Snippet:

New Delhi: A proposal for Reliance Defence and Russsia's United Shipbuilding Company (USC) to build four Talwar class frigates for the Indian Navy is on the agenda for summit meeting in Moscow on Thursday between Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin, sources said. The frontline warships will be built for around Rs 30,000 crore (around $5 billion) at the shipyard at Pipavav in Gujarat that Reliance Defence recently acquired. Under this agreement, a major warship will be built for the first time at an Indian private sector shipyard.

With this deal the Russians transfer some cold war era decades old ship building technology to India. India gets some jobs and some new boats of an old design. The US builds Arleigh Burke class of guided missile destroyers in the price range of the ships in this deal.

Did you even research about the ship before posting or did you just assume along some stereotype ? A big LOL if you think Talwar class frigates are "old" design

en.wikipedia.org... , check its arnaments

Talwar class frigates Cost: US$340 million while Arleigh Burke-class destroyer costs US$1.843 billion , that is almost 6 times costlier

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: crazyewok

Seeing the only thing the Russian navy can do well is sink, does India just want want to kill it sailors?

I hope India has time as the Russian defense industry has a problem with getting things done on time.

However, the Russian defense industry has been preformed poorly meeting deadlines in the last several years and the timelines set out by USC will be likely be difficult to meet, Eric Wertheim author of U.S. Naval Institute’s Combat Fleets of the World told USNI News on Tuesday.

“I don’t think anything about the Russian defense industry has been timely, he said.
“That’s the reason they looked to France for amphibious assault ships and why the aircraft carrier they made for India was so late.”

news.usni.org...

And thanks to their foray into Ukraine they no longer have someone to build their ships engines, so they have to look at a jet engine manufacturer for that...and who knows how that will go.

Now add in the fact that Russian production facilities aren't building for their own navy, their building for India?? What about their own navy? Short shrifted again?

India's military has long been held to be a counter to China and I suppose to a lesser degree Pakistan. Yet the ATS pundits think there's a new 'axis' between China, Russia and India. Russia isn't selling it's Siberian oil to China, which is closer and China has the bigger need for oil than India.

Perhaps, knowing even a Russian-Chinese military combined is outmatched by the U.S., adding India to the package makes the union more difficult for a U.S. domination militarily? The only commonality between the three being a military counter to the U.S..

a reply to: machineintelligence

So you wouldnt happen to be American would you?

I guess in your myopic view a country like India that has had nuclear capabilities and on a constant war footing with Pakistan is gonna invest in outdated technology. Do you know how the real world works? Australia builds ships for the great US navy. Companies tender worldwide to build a nations defence force.

You think an Indian company with assets of US$ 44 billion got there by buying rubbish, or being Indian is going to give India sub-par equipment when their own investments are tied in with the Indian economy?

If you are American I wouldnt be gloating if I were you - hows the F35 working out

en.wikipedia.org...

By 2014, the program was "$163 billion over budget [and] seven years behind schedule."[20] Critics further contend that the program's high sunk costs and political momentum make it "too big to kill."

www.rinfra.com...

Founded by the late Shri Dhirubhai H Ambani (1932-2002), the Reliance Group currently has assets in excess of Rs 2,67,000 crore (US$ 44 billion), a net worth of nearly Rs 1,00,000 crore (US$ 16 billion) and revenues of nearly Rs 53,000 crore (US$ 9 billion).
The Reliance Group strongly believes that it has a pivotal role to play in shaping the destiny of our great nation.

Austal (Australian Co.) builds for the US Navy
www.austal.com...

Austal (ASX:ASB) is pleased to announce that Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) 12 was christened at Austal USA’s Mobile, Alabama shipyard on Saturday 19th December 2015.
Austal USA officials joined Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus and the ship sponsor of the future USS Omaha, Susan Buffett, in celebrating the christening of the nation’s 12th littoral combat ship (LCS).

en.wikipedia.org...

An extensive rearmament program is being implemented since 2011, with the Russian Defense Ministry expected to procure 100 warships by 2020.[2] The purchase of 20 submarines, 35 corvettes and 15 frigates is planned.[3] The nature of the other 30 ships is as yet unknown. The Black Sea Fleet will receive 18 new surface ships and submarines, including Kilo-class submarines, Admiral Gorshkov-class frigates, and Ivan Gren-class landing ships. There are also plans to lay down Project 21631 small missile boats and Steregushchiy class corvettes. This state arms program also provides funds for the purchase of two Mistral class assault ships. Furthermore, older vessels such as the Kirov class battlecruisers reportedly will also undergo overhauls and modernisation to bring them back into active service after spending over a decade laid up in reserve.
In early 2013 it was reported that the navy is expected to receive 54 new warships of various classes and 24 submarines by 2020

a reply to: crazyewok

I will fear the Russian Navy when they can go a year without one of its ships randomly sinking

And yet you dont fear your own Govt. that formed a "Coalition of the Willing" to invade the middle-east based on lies?

Well reading the article.

The deal seems to be more about updating India's dockyards, with four new warships in the bargain.

India's history of warship building is a story of delay, inefficiency and cost cover-runs. If India is to develop a quality indigenous warship building capability then they need to get the basics right. I guess the Russians can offer some basic expertise that will help them on that path.

There's a danger that people will read too much into deals like this. This is not the worlds largest democracy entering into a military alliance with one of the world's grumpist autocracies. It's business.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: crazyewok

I will fear the Russian Navy when they can go a year without one of its ships randomly sinking

And yet you dont fear your own Govt. that formed a "Coalition of the Willing" to invade the middle-east based on lies?

Hahaha

You obviously dont know me, cause im the first to critize western foreign policy.

But no matter what our mistakes in the middle east are the Russian Navy is still a rusty pile of scrap metal.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: machineintelligence

So you wouldnt happen to be American would you?

I guess in your myopic view a country like India that has had nuclear capabilities and on a constant war footing with Pakistan is gonna invest in outdated technology. Do you know how the real world works? Australia builds ships for the great US navy. Companies tender worldwide to build a nations defence force.

You think an Indian company with assets of US$ 44 billion got there by buying rubbish, or being Indian is going to give India sub-par equipment when their own investments are tied in with the Indian economy?

If you are American I wouldnt be gloating if I were you - hows the F35 working out

en.wikipedia.org...

By 2014, the program was "$163 billion over budget [and] seven years behind schedule."[20] Critics further contend that the program's high sunk costs and political momentum make it "too big to kill."

www.rinfra.com...

Founded by the late Shri Dhirubhai H Ambani (1932-2002), the Reliance Group currently has assets in excess of Rs 2,67,000 crore (US$ 44 billion), a net worth of nearly Rs 1,00,000 crore (US$ 16 billion) and revenues of nearly Rs 53,000 crore (US$ 9 billion).
The Reliance Group strongly believes that it has a pivotal role to play in shaping the destiny of our great nation.

Austal (Australian Co.) builds for the US Navy
www.austal.com...

Austal (ASX:ASB) is pleased to announce that Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) 12 was christened at Austal USA’s Mobile, Alabama shipyard on Saturday 19th December 2015.
Austal USA officials joined Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus and the ship sponsor of the future USS Omaha, Susan Buffett, in celebrating the christening of the nation’s 12th littoral combat ship (LCS).

en.wikipedia.org...

An extensive rearmament program is being implemented since 2011, with the Russian Defense Ministry expected to procure 100 warships by 2020.[2] The purchase of 20 submarines, 35 corvettes and 15 frigates is planned.[3] The nature of the other 30 ships is as yet unknown. The Black Sea Fleet will receive 18 new surface ships and submarines, including Kilo-class submarines, Admiral Gorshkov-class frigates, and Ivan Gren-class landing ships. There are also plans to lay down Project 21631 small missile boats and Steregushchiy class corvettes. This state arms program also provides funds for the purchase of two Mistral class assault ships. Furthermore, older vessels such as the Kirov class battlecruisers reportedly will also undergo overhauls and modernisation to bring them back into active service after spending over a decade laid up in reserve.
In early 2013 it was reported that the navy is expected to receive 54 new warships of various classes and 24 submarines by 2020

Tell me what frigates have to do with Pakistan? India's military and nuclear capability was largely directed as a counter to China.

The F-35 is working out very well. As your gov't will attest.

Where you'll get some agreement is not much is known about Indian internal politics, parties, criminal element and it's connection to the gov't. What corporations are the power brokers of the nation etc..

This is good for India. The big problem India has had with with Russian weapons systems is they are never on time, sometimes never show up at all and are often defective. This way the Indians get to build them and make sure they are on time and up the quality they need. And doing so with Frigates is perfect as they are fairly minor ships. What will be interesting to see is under the new 10 year Defense Agreement with the US they have a joint working group on Aircraft carrier development. India needs an upgrade to its carrier fleet to deal with China.

originally posted by: intrptr
What? While the Western Paradigm spends its reserves in endless low level conflict, the other BRIC of allies is steadily building theirs.

And back in the real world. The BRICS are not an alliance. They are just the "top" developing nations. I say "top" because thet are not the top developing economies.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: crazyewok

What? While the Western Paradigm spends its reserves in endless low level conflict, the other BRIC of allies is steadily building theirs.

Guess who's going to out last the other?

I will fear the Russian Navy when they can go a year without one of its ships randomly sinking

Those aren't ships, they're submarines in disguise.

Everything that floats is a LST (Large Slow Target). Especially Carriers. Only the US is so heavily vested in projecting force abroad. Holdover dinosaur tactics from the second world war.

In a modern shooting war all surface navies will be the first casualties.

a reply to: paraphi

This is not the worlds largest democracy entering into a military alliance with one of the world's grumpist autocracies. It's business.

News flash: War is business.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: intrptr
What? While the Western Paradigm spends its reserves in endless low level conflict, the other BRIC of allies is steadily building theirs.

And back in the real world. The BRICS are not an alliance. They are just the "top" developing nations. I say "top" because thet are not the top developing economies.

They wouldn't even be loosely affiliated weren't it for the need to oppose the biggest bully on the block (NATO). Hitler refused to accept the world would ally against him either, even when losing to them.

a reply to: maddy21
The Talwar class frigates are the updated Krivak-class frigate which is Soviet era technology so yes I am saying they are transferring outdated technology. In essence this will allow India to work on their own old Russian made boats with 4 new frigates in the deal.

I know how much a Talwar class ship builds for I just split the total of the deal into 4 to point out what a crap deal this is in my opinion.

originally posted by: intrptr
They wouldn't even be loosely affiliated weren't it for the need to oppose the biggest bully on the block (NATO).

Appreciate that it does not fit with your worldview, but the BRICS are not an alliance to oppose NATO. They are some of the biggest developing economies, no more.

But hey, we digress. This is to do with India buying some Russian warships and updating their naval shipyards so they can fabiricate warships more efficiently themselves. How is this earth shattering.

a reply to: paraphi

but the BRICS are not an alliance to oppose NATO. They are some of the biggest developing economies, no more.

The old US blind belief that the world really sees things the US way…

Then why is the us embroiled in so many conflicts, have so many bases, distribute so many arms world wide?

You can bet whatever debt dollars and ammunition you have left the rest of the free world is conspiring to alternatives besides US military might and Petro dollars.