Russia's bombing in Syria has killed hundreds of civilians - new report

Pick a side and fight or die to those who do. Simple.

Russia bombs a market killing women and children with no military presence for kilometers they are heros. US kills a terrorists driver and they are ear crimes. The anti US attacks are comical in retrospect

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
War always includes civilian casualties.
If it doesn't then it's a sham because someone is just dropping bombs on empty desert (US maybe?)
Where was the outrage when the civilians of Iraq were being killed by US bombs in our invasion?

If you are in close proximity to ISIS forces then you're gonna get hit.
The idea of "surgical strikes" was invented by the US to make war sound safer to civilian populations.
It's a farce and always has been.

If the US were seriously attacking ISIS we'd be killing civilians too.

What about when they aren't? And you kill women and children is that ok?

At this point...whatever it takes to exterminate these animals is fine with me. But then again, I still support waterboarding murderers to protect citizens. Silly me.

This unfortunately was expected. When has there ever been a war when this hasn’t happened?

Ultimately though blame those self-appointed Sunni war lords and terrorists, who all have Saladin complexes who started this fup war for their own selfish glory and ego.

The US has killed more than Russia by far in drones alone as well supported the war lords running amuck in Syria.

Blame the US/Turkey/NATO/Gulf States for the dead

Russia did not start this war

But it may finish it

a reply to: dragonridr

Yes. Simple enough? That is what war is...that is how war must be fought if it is to be won. America has forgotten how to fight wars and therefore, has forgotten how to win. If that doesn't change, we will loose more than you think is possible and the question of women and children will be about American lives...not these people who support such beliefs.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: dragonridr

Yes. Simple enough? That is what war is...that is how war must be fought if it is to be won. America has forgotten how to fight wars and therefore, has forgotten how to win. If that doesn't change, we will loose more than you think is possible and the question of women and children will be about American lives...not these people who support such beliefs.

Even in war you don't have to lose your humanity sad that you and others on here believe that to be true. Civilians die in wars however targetting them specifically should never be done.Russia has no excuse for bombing a market other then to terrorize Syrians.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

So then it is no different than blaming the US for everything under the sun because they did something in the past.

Not exactly a good defense there I'm afraid.

It was not an argument I was making. It was an observation. So there is nothing for you to argue beyond what I observed.

They do that yes...remember Chechnya.

I do. The pretense to that conflict was an attack on pro-Russian, Russians, within Russia, carried out by the Russian government?

Ah yes because Russia doesn't keep their citizens under a tight watch...just don't oppose the government policies and their president and everything is peachy...oh and don't be in the LGBT community as they are the loved ones in Russia.

80% approval rating. It seems your narration of the quality of life in Russia is not backed up by the opinions of the Russian people.

If you care so much about Russia, why don't you take your arguements to the Russian people? Why do you need to convince me? I cant do anything about it.

End of the day, instead of talking if some of you people did some valid research, such as read comments from actual russians on russian news sites, from russians who live in russia - you will see most russian's don't support what their government is doing in Syria the same way many people in the U.S don't agree with their own governments. To pick a side is silly at this point, especially a Russian side considering the horrific atrocities and assassinations/poisonings carried out by Russia/KGB.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: dragonridr

Yes. Simple enough? That is what war is...that is how war must be fought if it is to be won. America has forgotten how to fight wars and therefore, has forgotten how to win. If that doesn't change, we will loose more than you think is possible and the question of women and children will be about American lives...not these people who support such beliefs.

Even in war you don't have to lose your humanity sad that you and others on here believe that to be true. Civilians die in wars however targetting them specifically should never be done.Russia has no excuse for bombing a market other then to terrorize Syrians.

I'm not trying to be harsh to you...I'm just stating reality. If you believe there is something or anything humane about war, you are mistaken. War is (or is supposed to be) the final action after all else has failed. It is reserved for a time when it is required and the only way it is effective and the only way it saves lives in the long run is for it to be devastating. War waged correctly is a nuclear bomb dropped upon a city, destroying the "enemy" both military and civilian. It exterminates lives both good and bad and shocks the other side into realizing that we have decided that they are less important than the reason for being at war. It tells them that they can all die if they wish...that we are willing to execute that action and that they better change their minds about the "problem".

In the end, that immediate loss of thousands of lives may save the millions at risk with an extended conflict with ground troops, drones and decades of battles. That (to me) is the purpose and requirement for war. Don't do it unless you are willing to commit to it and do it for the purpose of ending it...quickly.

This is not to say I like war, want war or even believe in this war in which we are currently involved. But that is what war is about. To roughly quote one General (I don't remember his name)..."You destroy without conscience and open the gates of Hell upon your enemy. Afterward, you can grieve that you were forced to this decision and rebuild."

a reply to: theySeeme

That is TOO funny LMAO. We are people, adults in most cases and yet you think a statement like

 To pick a side is silly at this point, especially a Russian side considering the horrific atrocities and assassinations/poisonings carried out by Russia/KGB.

... Like we are all retarded and cant see past what you want us to take from your statements.

The US has never assasinated one of their own? I dont think the term "been suicided" came from Russia.

Yes both sides have done evil. By why care about what a country does that has no effect on you while ignoring the evils the country that collects your tax dollars and spends it does?
It blows me away.

a reply to: paraphi

Yeah so ? Is it now all of a sudden not alright when it isnt the U.S dong the bombing? Millions and millions of civilians have died because of U.S bombings so far. But when RT reports on that you get the good old line"mmyeeah but that is RT thats just russian propoganda".

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: theySeeme

That is TOO funny LMAO. We are people, adults in most cases and yet you think a statement like

 To pick a side is silly at this point, especially a Russian side considering the horrific atrocities and assassinations/poisonings carried out by Russia/KGB.

The US has never assasinated one of their own? I dont think the term "been suicided" came from Russia.

Quite the contrary, actually I know much more about atrocities committed by our country (USA) than I do any other country, including russia.

My post simply says people should do some research by easily reading what real russians living in russia are saying about their government, that's all.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: theySeeme

That is TOO funny LMAO. We are people, adults in most cases and yet you think a statement like

 To pick a side is silly at this point, especially a Russian side considering the horrific atrocities and assassinations/poisonings carried out by Russia/KGB.

The US has never assasinated one of their own? I dont think the term "been suicided" came from Russia.

Quite the contrary, actually I know much more about atrocities committed by our country (USA) than I do any other country, including russia.

My post simply says people should do some research by easily reading what real russians living in russia are saying about their government, that's all.

Edit:

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: theySeeme



By why care about what a country does that has no effect on you while ignoring the evils the country that collects your tax dollars and spends it does?
It blows me away.

What blows me away is how you don't know the answer to this question. Even more concerning is the fact that you said what Russia is doing has no effect on me. How do you figure it has no effect on me? please explain how you came to this conclusion.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: paraphi

The thing is that in western democracies, collectively killing everyone to get to a portion of scum deliberately hiding amongst civilians (deception is the art of war - Sun Tzu) would be met with an avalanche of protests across the political correction spectrum.

Russia is likely not concerned about the public fury and blowback and they will simply point to US military atrocities where similar tactics also resulted in the death of innocents.

If this is a deliberate tactic by Russia, the populations in the region should sit up and take note, because Russia may continue to employ this strategy of collective killing with the end result being scores of innocents dead as well as ALL the terrorists - it's a sure fire way of having the local populations weed out and expose the terrorists from within their midsts - if they want to live.

The loss of one innocent life is unacceptable to any sane person, so we must ask ourselves - what has led to Russia or indeed any outsider becoming involved in such a war in the first place? ISIS should reap the blame too for this tragedy, because it's due to their existence that this happened in the first place.

That is the nub of the matter, Russia will eliminate the terrorist , because they wont be concerned that they use innocent non combatants as a shields. The collateral damage will be very high. They knew this as the logic of this type of warfare would require high civilian casualties . But modern warfare seems to take out more civilians than combatants. If they minimise collateral damage the job wont get done.

a reply to: everyone

Er, the contention of the OP is that the lack of reporting and transparency on Russian actions that result in the deaths of civilians is harmful. The US and company have been pilloried by the Western media (quite rightly so) for collateral damage and civilian deaths and have modified their behaviour. If Russia is not held to account, then they will not modify their behaviour and more civilians will be killed.

In otherwords, the lack of any media freedoms in Russia and the inability of the Russian state-controlled press to report accuractely ensures Russia can kill civilians without reprecussions.

Is this observation incorrect?

a reply to: MALBOSIA

It was not an argument I was making. It was an observation. So there is nothing for you to argue beyond what I observed.

And my reply was not an argument but an observation...see that can go both ways.

I do. The pretense to that conflict was an attack on pro-Russian, Russians, within Russia, carried out by the Russian government?

So it's okay they did that, because I don't see you condemning them for their acts while praising them for killing civilians in Syria...that's really amazing.

80% approval rating. It seems your narration of the quality of life in Russia is not backed up by the opinions of the Russian people.

Ah yes because of state run media they don't get to see what their governments really doing.

Vladimir Milov, a former deputy energy minister and current opposition politician, told an October 26 panel discussion that Russia faced a crisis that is much deeper and longer-term than the 1998 crash, when the ruble devaluation helped boost exports, resulting in a quick recovery.

With real wages down 10 percent compared with last year, industrial output down sharply, and Russian companies locked out of foreign credit markets due to Western sanctions, Russia's economy faced more turbulence than the Kremlin is letting on, Milov said.

Sergei Aleksashenko, a former central-bank deputy chairman and vocal critic of Kremlin policies, told the panel that Russia's economic problems ran deeper than oil prices and sanctions.

As early as 2013, the year after Putin returned to the presidency after serving four years as prime minister, growth in business investment stopped, Aleksashenko said, a trend that worsened in 2014 and 2015.

www.rferl.org...

If the normal citizen in Russia knew this they would be up in arms wanting answers, but because they get state run media they do not get anything but the government is doing the best for the people while keeping the real truth from them.

Should we get into what happens when you do show the truth about the government?

ince Vladimir Putin returned to the presidency he never really left, Russia’s descent into neo-Soviet authoritarianism has become daily more brazen. Dissidents are once again being put on show trials that call up the ghosts of Joseph Brodsky, Andrei Sinyavsky, and Yuli Daniel. Laws are being jammed through the Duma with the express purpose of making Western-minded Russians fear that they will be arrested for spying for foreign powers.

www.worldaffairsjournal.org...

When you keep the population in fear what do expect them to do?

If you care so much about Russia, why don't you take your arguements to the Russian people? Why do you need to convince me? I cant do anything about it.

Did I say you can do anything about it...no.

But to keep trying to make Putin out to be some kind of hero of the Russian people is a joke...something you seem to keep trying to push as the truth, why is that?

I am not trying to convince you of anything...just showing you the truth about the man you defend.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

And my reply was not an argument but an observation...see that can go both ways.

It was so an argument. You contested what I observed with:

So then it is no different than blaming the US for everything under the sun because they did something in the past. 

Not exactly a good defense there I'm afraid.

Thats an argument.

So it's okay they did that, because I don't see you condemning them for their acts while praising them for killing civilians in Syria...that's really amazing.

I never claimed anything was ok. I brought up something diabolical that the US did against its own people and you brought up Chechnya, which was like compairing apples to oranges.

When was it so well documented as it is with 911 where Russia murdered 4000 of its own and then stole trillions from them to go murder more than a million of someone elses?

Chechnya is your answer?

Ah yes because of state run media they don't get to see what their governments really doing.

Sorry, the "state run media" boogy man has no effect on me. I live in a country with state run media and it is nothing like the complete BS for-profit tabloids that come across the cable from where you live. I puke in my mouth when I watch US news. Its a complete farse across the board. There is no law that prohibits US media from lying through their teeth to save their corporate sponsors.

Vladimir Milov, a former deputy energy minister and current opposition politician, told an October 26 panel discussion that Russia faced a crisis that is much deeper and longer-term than the 1998 crash, when the ruble devaluation helped boost exports, resulting in a quick recovery.

With real wages down 10 percent compared with last year, industrial output down sharply, and Russian companies locked out of foreign credit markets due to Western sanctions, Russia's economy faced more turbulence than the Kremlin is letting on, Milov said.

So the west is causing serious damage to Russia and your saying..... what?

Ya thats bad. The Russian people are sufferring because Russia is challanging the western narrative and monopoly and still Putin has a 80% approval rating. I can see how that frusterates Russophobes.

You frusterated? Seems like it.

If the normal citizen in Russia knew this they would be up in arms wanting answers, but because they get state run media they do not get anything but the government is doing the best for the people while keeping the real truth from them.

And your for-profit media told you it was ok to murder more than a million innocents. That the banks needed trillions of your tax dollars for your own good, that trading with China wa the best thing for the American worker and every other lie you believe.

I get it. For-profit is WAY more efficient at lying than little ol' state-run could even imagine.

Should we get into what happens when you do show the truth about the government?

Like Bradley Manning, Gary Webb, Michael Hastings etc. ??

ince Vladimir Putin returned to the presidency he never really left, Russia’s descent into neo-Soviet authoritarianism has become daily more brazen. Dissidents are once again being put on show trials that call up the ghosts of Joseph Brodsky, Andrei Sinyavsky, and Yuli Daniel. Laws are being jammed through the Duma with the express purpose of making Western-minded Russians fear that they will be arrested for spying for foreign powers.

Show trials? Like US military tribunals or Saddam?

When you keep the population in fear what do expect them to do?

Buddy, our countries are in a purpetual state of fear through for-profit media and democratic puppets that are selling it to us daily. Didn't the US have 350 mass shootings this year? Is that a sign of happyness or rotting at the core?

Did I say you can do anything about it...no.

But to keep trying to make Putin out to be some kind of hero of the Russian people is a joke...something you seem to keep trying to push as the truth, why is that?

Why do you care who my heros are? Does that effect you somehow?

I am not trying to convince you of anything...just showing you the truth about the man you defend.

At the expense of ignoring the truth about your own leaders and way of life? Do you feel helpless against your own corrupt establishment so helping them topple another makes you feel like you matter rather than face them a realize that you don't?

I can see how this could help you cope with that but don't bark up my tree.

a reply to: MALBOSIA
So basically what you're saying is, let's not discuss other countries or other topics, because we have to look at our own problems first?.. You know this is a thread about Russia, right? And yet you're going to offtopic about the US, by saying, let's ignore Russia, because we have bigger problems with our own goverments. That's just silly. How about you go create a thread that you want to talk about and ignore threads that discuss topics you don't care about and stop breaking the forum rules?

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Wow so much wrong hard to know where to start.First I guess there has been 29 mass shootings the definition is an incident in public involving 4 or more people. And the violence is not a means to an end such as robbery. See right now democrats are working hard to convince people mass shooting occur daily. Their figure is 355 slightly less then your number. However over 40 percent of those involved no injuries. There definition is very broad any gun violence involving 3 individuals. Meaning could be store robbery of gang related or even domestic violence where a gun is used and two other people are there. As for the US people aren't scared of the government locking them up for speaking out. This is strictly a Russian problem.

Now this thread is discussing Russians disreguard for civilian casualties not what you believe the US has done in the past since I saw the confusing 9/11 conspiracy thing in there. The US doesn't always make the right call however they do try to at least prevent casualties of civilians. Thw media has given them lots of heat involving just this and that is why they have strict rules of ebgagement. Same reason they havnt bombed Isis HQ they are holding histages their.

But now to Russia we can't even claim these were mistakes they bombed a market only people around were women and children. No terrorists anywhere near there. I fear this is part of the Russian plan threaten the civilian population in an effort to get them to flee. This is going to compound the refugee problem.

And finally Putin he is a dictator really no way to get around that you opose him you end up in jail or dead.Though some anti Obama folks like to make him out to be one also he's not.and contrary to what some believe will be leaving office soon. He's not a president for life like Putin.

And finally a question are you going to honestly say If Russians were told what's really going on in the world Putin would still be in power? He set bombs in apartments in moscow stole millions from the government lied to them about Ukraine now Syria and has effectively destroyed their economy. Most Russiand have no clue that it has been on the decline even before sanctions. They are told their economy is improving by leaps and bounds. And finnally do you think Russians would be ok with women and children being blown up in a market just trying to get some food?